Train companies failing passengers – what if we could choose?

I too travel between Leeds and London frequently; I live in Leeds and visit friends and family in the South East. There is a third option: Grand Central, who provide a comfortable and affordable service out of Bradford, Wakefield KG and Pontefract. Its worth it if you can put up with an extra connection to Leeds. I work in Ponte, so its a great choice for me! However, my daily commute on Northern Rail from Leeds to Glasshoughton is underwhelming. It’s an hourly service with old rolling stock, on a line blighted by cable thieves, and is prone to being delayed by higher priority services in and out of the city. And its quite expensive.

I am a regular commuter using Southeastern services. Whilst some improvements have been made it’s worth pointing out how SE manipulate the timetable to their benefit. Journey times have increased so that what was a 50 minute commute now takes an hour. So whilst they argue they have improved punctuality, in fact they have merely written in regular delays into the timetable. Journey times between Kent and London are now longer than they were in the age of steam. Though I acknowledge a great deal more travellers use the trains it is sometimes difficult to see how that is an improvement.

Use East Coast fairly frequently between Aberdeen and York – very rarely are there delays. Tickets are cheap if you book 12 weeks ahead and first class very good value with complimentary food and drinks. Cross country also run this route once a day – used it once – never again!!

As a retiree I travel only occasionally on the Reading to Waterloo Line via Ascot (South West trains), going up in the afternoon and returning in evening. The train – ride, punctuality, cleanliness – is excellent. The fare I consider expensive but OK. My dislike of the journeys concern behaviour of some of the other passengers. Going up, it is prolonged loud mobile phone conversations. Coming back, it is the bringing on of food – hot, smelly and disgusting eating manners. I usually move away but in the evenings the trains are very crowded so I have to stand, at least as far as Twickenham.

I don’t think its right that train companies get exclusive concessions on routes. If the idea of privatisation is to create competition, concessions ends up creating monopolies with an illusion of competition. In that case, we would be better off re-nationalising the railways. Otherwise, there should be a minimum of two companies on every route with alternating schedules. This would mean that if you want to change train operator, you just have to shift your schedule by 13-30 minutes in either direction. It would also force operators in direct competition on popular, over-crowded and over-priced routes. Will the Tory government go for it? Not on your life!

It was interesting to see the comments regarding Merseyrail Electrics (Merseyrail) and as a regular user am happy with its rating in the Regional Services section. However, I would point out that that we do not have any ‘newer’ trains – the units at present in use have been running for around 25 years. I understand that they were second hand when received , being previously operating around the south of England/London area. We were promised new trains in 2013, but this has been put back by at least two years because CrossRail was deemed more important . You also mentioned an increase in frequency, but this has happened on only one route, Liverpool to Chester, where trains now run on a 15 minute frequency, bringing it in line with all but one of the other services.

Well done Which? for turning the spotlight on the Train Operating Companies.
Leaving aside for a moment whether or not rail privatization was a fundamentally flawed, or badly executed, policy that left us in this mess, with the worst railways in Europe; I have to add my appalling experiences on the daily Commute to London Bridge with Southern.
Southern have one of the worst run and least well served lines, the London Bridge to Uckfield line, where 1 of the 2 tracks is mothballed on part of the line; where there are 2 trains an hour at peak times; platforms are too short to serve some carriages, and it’s standing room only. Demand at peak times is at least Twice available capacity, and yet Southern don’t add any additional service. I tried First class for a while but even then I only had a seat less than 50% of the time… It’s all the same to Southern as all commuters pay, regardless of seat or not. Most of us have no alternative TOC to turn to.
It’s simple: It should be “no seat – no pay”. That way TOCs get paid when they provide a Service, and they don’t get paid when it’s No Service. It would give them an incentive to add capacity since it would result in increased revenues (and happy passengers on seats).

Train travel is a difficult topic for Which? because experiences of passengers differ so widely across the country. But since rail passengers are a very weak lobby (compared to motorists) and represent a tiny proportion of the electorate, it’s all the more important for Which? to engage the government on our behalf when, and where, things are bad. I live on the Midland line from St Pancras to Sheffield, served exclusively by East Midlands trains. The service is generally very reliable, the station staff are particularly friendly and helpful, and the trains, both new and old, are well-maintained and comfortable. The main problem is the extortionate fares in the peak. For a journey of around 65 miles, I now pay just under £60 return after the one-third discount for having a railcard – and car-parking adds another £7.50. The government acknowledges that fares are too high, but says in the recent Command Paper ‘we need to look seriously…..at asking those passengers who drive the need for capacity enhancements….to pay more for their journey’. In other words, it’s going to get worse!

When I compare EM trains with other companies I realise how fortunate I am. Virgin Trains may have attracted good reviews from other respondents, but I find their trains cramped, stuffy and about two-thirds of seats have no decent view out of the window. They want you to pretend you’re flying! I use Stansted Express to reach the airport from London Liverpool Street. Some trains are new; they are fast and clean but very bumpy while other trains are filthy and frankly worn out. Thameslink, operated by First Capital Connect to Gatwick and Brighton, has reasonable fares, but slow services, drafty trains and is hopelessly overcrowded in the peak – these problems are of course being addressed in the great Thameslink upgrade, programmed by British Rail for completion in 2000 but put back by about 20 years as a result of privatisation.

Unquestionably the worst ills of rail travel in Britain result from the fragmentation of what ought to be an integrated national system, whether publicly or privately owned. On-track competition is largely impractical and wasteful of capacity. Competitive fares on alternative routes do not need separate companies to operate them. With no emphasis on the system as a whole:

1. Fare structures are utterly confusing and illogical and many staff themselves do not understand them. At my local station, a conscientious member of staff takes the trouble to search through a range of options for my journey, which often turns out to involve multiple bookings or tickets to places I’m not going to, so as to get the best deal. Elsewhere, staff don’t do this, and passengers are frequently charged more than necessary.
2. There is no effort to provide or guarantee connecting services. ‘We run our bit of the railway, take what we can get and stuff the rest of them’ sums up the policy of train companies in this regard.
3. There is no commitment to improve services or vary them in relation to demand. Since everything is rigidly specified in advance by government, train companies have fulfilled their obligations when they have met the spec, not when they have actually given passengers what they need.
4. There is no strategy or co-ordination over which trains are used where. Some places have hopelessly outdated ‘Pacers’ while more modern trains are sold off to the Coatians etc because they are ‘surplus to requirements’ of the train company running the service.
5. Railway catering is a complete lottery. There seems to be an assumption that only first class passengers eat meals, whether they are hungry or not, and the rest of world lives on snacks.
6. Information about services is seriously deficient – no maps of the network, no marketing of tickets they don’t want you to buy (rover tickets for example), ferocious penalties for passengers who transgress the fare rules.

I recommend Which? to analyse the latest Command Paper, and ask how many of the issues that appear to worry Government are actually self-inflicted and would be non-existent in a properly managed, national system.

I regularly travel on Arriva Wales to Chester buying my ticket online and picking it up at Bangor station. I often book the 8.21 train going, an anytime return and a seat although there are always plenty of spare seats all the way to Chester.. On one occasion I bought a single ticket online for the 8.21 (but didn’t book a seat) which said it was actually valid on any train that day. I picked it up at the ticket machine and it also printed out a “complimentary” (i.e unasked-for) seat reservation for the 8.21 which I stuck in my purse. I was in time to get the delayed 8.02 so hopped on board. When the ticket inspector came round I inadvertently got out the seat reservation first but as I showed it him realised my mistake, took it back and handed him the ticket. He said “You shouldn’t be on this train”. I said the ticket was an anytime ticket. He said “You’ve got a seat reservation for the 8.21”. I said I didn’t ask for the seat reservation. He said “With that seat reservation you should be on the 8.21” I said “my ticket says I can be on this train,” “Well you shouldn’t have a seat reservation for the 8.21″ he said. I said slowly and carefully ” I did not ask the machine to allocate me a seat when I picked up the ticket.” He replied “Well you shouldn’t have shown it me.” “Right” I said and put it away. Usually the inspectors on Arriva Wales are very pleasant, except this one.

Southeastern is the worst company ever, I cannot believe they claim 83% passenger satisfaction. They increase their prices each year whilst their service levels go down. My husband and I were left stranded in London 4th Feb. Snow was being predicted in London all week. We had plans in London that night, at Orpington station we inquired about the train situation and snow. And were told by station staff that trains would be running no problem. Upon arrival in London Charing cross the train stopped outside of this station for 20 mins or so, the excuse was they were sorting out another train to have more carriages as this seems to work better in cold weather. Looking for reassurance we again asked southeastern staff at Charing cross around 8pm what was the situation with the trains. Again, we were told all would be fine and trains would be running as usual. As you may know from the news reports, this was not the case! We turned-up at Charing cross station around 10:30pm. Sat on an already delayed train for about an hour, to then be told no more trains would going to Orpington because of some trouble in London Bridge area. We were also told to make our way home by other means… What other means, buses, taxis… We were assured twice there would not be problems with the trains that night!!! We were kicked out of the station into the snow – we’re lucky because could afford to go to a budget hotel. Passenger safety, health and welfare is not a priority for them – money is!!! The trap is that as passengers who can we complain to, national rail?!?! Even worse they’re is no competition, I can’t use another company, what’s worse they tamper with the stats to say we’re happy with their service… bring c2c to Kent!!! They seem to get it right!

We quite regularly travel by East Coast & Cross Country sometimes first class.
East Coast generally has good service ,particularly first class, the trains are quiet because the engines are at the front & rear & you can often get a seat with a window.
By contrast the sevice on Cross Country is generally poor,even in first class, food is often not available even on a journey from Devon to Scotland, the trains are noisey because the engines are under the seats [I understand that the Voyagers were designed for journeys up to 150 miles not 500 miles], they are often overcrowded despite the fact that in their franchise bid Cross Country said that they would provide more capacity but instead of providing more coaches they have moved the seats closer together so that you rarely get a clear window seat or table. The toilets are sometimes out of order & are not cleaned regularly on long journeys.
Having just booked some rail journeys in France our fares are much higher unless you book 12 weeks in advance or split the journey.

I commuted over 700,000 miles between Totton, near Southampton, and Waterloo between 1987 and 2009, on what became South West Trains.

After privatisation, people like myself suffered big fare increases while less comfortable rolling stock was introduced to reduce leasing costs, services were severely cut at stations such as Totton (the fourth largest town between Southampton and Weymouth) and stops were routinely omitted and vital connections sacrificed to improve crashing performance figures. But worst of all was the arrogance and contempt displayed by Stagecoach towards its passengers. Don’t just take my word for it: the South Hampshire Rail Users’ Group’s website (www.shrug.info) includes a History of South West Trains based on substantial and wide-ranging evidence, including judgments from passengers, user groups, Ministers, MPs and regulatory authorities.

Bit surprised there aren’t more angry comments about trains. Perhaps this is because we all see a huge problem with only small solutions.

Those people from Southeastern surprised at their unpopularity need to get out more. They could try what I did for several months – that is – get off a (Southern) train at London Bridge) and wait to change for Cannon Street. The number of people coming out of Southeastern carriages has to be seen to be believed. It was a fairly frequent occurrence for someone to be “taken ill” on one of these seriously overcrowded trains. I wonder how seriously Southeastern takes this problem – it must keep records as members of staff always appear when this happens.

For many years (let’s just say more than 20), I commuted from mid-Sussex into London. For most of that time, the fastest and most relaxing way of doing this was to make my way to Gatwick Airport and catch the Gatwick Express to London Victoria station. I did this for long enough to have travelled on the old slam-door trains (class 73), then the “modern” rolling stock that most people still associate with the route (class 460), and subsequently the appalling ex-South West Trains class 442 rolling stock.

Up until late 2008, the Gatwick Express service was probably the best train service in the country. It was certainly the best train service I have ever used in the UK. On my way home I would travel across London to Victoria, and would relax as I walked onto platforms 13 or 14 where the train would be waiting. Yes – I would relax when I got to the train, not when I got off it. The rolling stock was clean and comfortable, the reliability very good, the staff on board a delight. And then… the franchise changed. The new owner, Southern, took over and put in place changes that the Department For Transport had previously announced. The day the service was extended to run to Brighton, rather than terminating at Gatwick Airport, was the day I remember the onboard staff being in tears. The service changed dramatically for the worse that day, and under Southern it has got worse ever since.

What has happened?
• Well, the rolling stock that customers liked (the class 460 stock) was replaced by ex-South West Trains units that were (and still are) shabby, dirty, uncomfortable and unreliable. They were/are so bad that I saw evidence of even the staff having vandalised them with graffiti that very few people other than staff would have understood (I had travelled on the service for so long that I understood the meaning).
• The service was extended to Brighton, which means that travellers using the airport have to embark/disembark quickly rather than being able to take their time. When embarking at the airport, they have to get their luggage onto trains that are often already busy with grumpy commuters from Brighton.
• The staff became demotivated, due to changes brought in by the new owners (as well as because they now had to face miserable commuters doing the daily grind from Brighton, rather than normally happy-to-be-there travellers from the airport).
• Ticketing became confused, with different rules applying depending on where passengers were travelling to.
• The onboard trolley staff were outsourced to Rail Gourmet, destroying any link with the rail company and removing any pride in the service. The quality of the trolley staff went downhill. I had never had anybody purposely try to over-charge me prior to the outsourcing, but after that it happened multiple times.
• Automated barriers went up at Victoria and Gatwick, which was always a crazy idea for a service that is aimed at airport users with associated luggage. In the morning rush-hour the barriers cause chaos at Victoria.
• The onboard revenue staff were removed, to hang around, demotivated, by the barriers at Victoria and London, waiting for the company to make them redundant. With no revenue staff on board, the convenience of being able to buy a ticket on board was removed, with passengers having to go through the chaos of ticket buying that is Gatwick Airport station in the morning.
• With no onboard revenue staff, any control over use of first class compartments fell apart.
• On the rare occasion that ticket inspectors got on after those changes, they would be generic Southern inspectors, barely recognisable as being staff. On a number of occasions I heard them being incredibly rude to passengers, to the extent that had they been recorded I believe they could have faced not just disciplinary proceedings, but criminal charges.

And that’s just the start. The service went from probably the best in the country, to something worse than a typical Southern commuter service, but at a premium price.

After 20+ years of using the Gatwick Express on a near-daily basis, I gave up my London job earlier this year to avoid having to commute into London any longer. If the service of just 5 or 6 years ago was still in place I would probably still be working in London, but Southern turned what was a relaxing part of my day into an absolute hell that was not a healthy thing to be doing regularly. The London Underground in rush hour was a more relaxing part of my journey than the Gatwick Express for the last year or so.

When Southern managers are questioned about this, they initially try denial, then when pressed pass the blame onto the Department for Transport. From the customer’s viewpoint, the Department for Transport made some horrifically bad decisions, but Southern exacerbated them. The consequence is that the service has been ruined, passengers have been driven off it, and neither passengers nor staff understand why. And all of this has happened just before the Olympics, when the airport and rail service will probably be busier than they have ever been.

So, what is the answer? Southern consumer panels certainly aren’t. The answer has to come from the new owners of Gatwick Airport (who have spent a fortune successfully improving the airport), from the London tourist industry, and from politicians kicking the a**es of the airheads at the Department for Transport. Other than that, a white-knight, possibly in the shape of Richard Branson, could be given the franchise for the Gatwick Express service, and be allowed to run it as a business, possibly in partnership with the airport owners, unconstrained by stupid policies from the Department For Transport (so no more running to Brighton).