Are you for or against the HS2?

I am against, business is changing, web conferencing and virtual conferences will become the face of the future. Spending £30BN odd on a single line from London to Birmingham is absolutely pointless as the benefit is about 30 minutes less travelling.

Far better to improve the internet communications structure such that people can easily work from home for any company world-wide.

I have an ex-colleague who works in the UK during the day for a well known computer manufacturer in the USA and he does their UNIX maintenance whilst they are asleep.

Knowledge based jobs need to be encouraged by proving the necessary infrastructure.

Finally before this really does go ahead and contracts are awarded I would want to know how much a return ticket will be?

A clarification to what has been commented.

London-Birmingham phase £17 billion, to Manchester
AND Leeds, a further 15 billion or so in my
understanding.

Yup… cost of fares is a very relevant consideration.

Reported just days ago a ‘super express’ scheme in
operation in the Netherlands is running at a loss as
passengers deserted in large numbers on account
of much higher fares.

Check out the story at the Telegraph.

A few questions. What is the point in being against it if it is actually going ahead? If it isn’t going to get built, will it only be delaying the inevitable? Why can it not both boost the north by bringing it closer to the south and boost the south full stop without it being necessarily at the expense of the north?

I’m against it on environment grounds. Plus if it is anything like present train system it will be very expensive and inefficient.

I think the real reasons for HS2 are to spend on infrastructure to get the economy moving and to show case the uk.
Why they keep on about saving 30 mins traveling time as a good reason beats me, who cares? You could gain or lose more at either end in traffic.
I’m all for getting the economy going again and capital projects are as good a way as any but the vast amount of money this will cost could be far better spent in other ways, and give greater benefit.
How about a few tidal energy stations or “encouragement cash” for UK manufacturing. How many things did we use to lead the world in but find ourselves importing today?
Those are areas to throw money at, not “show off fast trains” we can’t afford tickets for anyway.

The Daily Mail recently gave train costs across europe for a 24 mile commuter journey. In the UK it cost in excess of £3000/year. The most expensive cost in europe was £900 with other commuter trips costing £600/£700. This is the kind of thing that needs to be discussed and the question asked why does it cost so much in the UK. As I understand it, behind the HST drive, is an europesn directive that is pushing us toward HTS whether we want it or no. It seems to me that what needs to be sorted first is the excessive cost of UK rail, then we can start talking about HTS. HTS will not help the commuter one iota.

The £32 billion quoted for the HS2 project is a very large sum for a new railway with limited appeal.

It would be much better spent on quicker and cheaper options such as:

Add extra lines to busy routes

Longer trains with longer platforms at stations to ease overcrowding and increase capacity

Double decker carriages like those on mainland Europe to ease overcrowding and increase capacity

Reopen old lines to put towns and cities back onto the rail network

If done properly, HS2 should:
1. Free up space on existing railways for more freight and thus reduce the number of lorries on the motorway network
2. Enable better services along existing lines for towns such as Watford and Milton Keynes
3. Link Birmingham airport to Manchester, the North and London, thus reducing the need for another London airport
4. Be linked to Heathrow to reduce domestic air travel
5. Be linked to HS1 to enable through services from Birmingham to Paris, again reducing air travel.
6. Have fares comparable with those on HS1, but no higher.
On environmental grounds, I’d rather have a new railway than a new motorway or a new airport and after the disaster that was the West Coast upgrade, such major works on existing lines should be a non-starter. As for double-deckers, the European loading gauge is much larger, on the smaller British lines they would be horribly claustrophobic as indeed they were, when used on the Dartford line some 50 years ago.

I am in favour of HS2 but I have several thoughts and reservations on the project.

Project Cost

I think that we need a proper breakdown of the cost of the line because it is highly probable that part of it will be an allocation of the full economic cost of civil servants working in the Department of Transport, the costs of public enquiries and any Parliamentary hearings. The construction of the line needs to be put out to tender because as Chiltern Railways found out, Network Rail will charge much more than its competitors for building railway stations. If my memory serves me right Euston station will have to be partially re-built whether it is for HS2 or extended and additional trains using the present lines. If there is to be a branch to Heathrow Airport I think that it should also serve Gatwick Airport to link both airports to the north and other train services to the south.

Benefits of a High Speed line

Living in Ashford I often use HS1 to London St Pancras during the off-peak times and although it usually has only six coaches compared to the eight carriage classic train service to London Charing Cross it still looks like it carries more people in it. Although it may not be the best service for the City of London it does save about half an hour getting to central London and does not cost you anymore to use it off-peak if you are travelling beyond London.

Train Noise

Much is made of the noise created by the trains travelling at high speed but I have to say that when a Eurostar goes by Ashford International station at high speed it can distract you but, in my opinion, no damage will be done to the ears even though it can be as little as 20 feet away. Slow goods trains can seem to make as much if not more noise.

Train Fares

The problem with train fares is that they are biased in favour of high fares for peak time commuters and cheap fares for off-peak travel plus extraordinarily cheap fares for pre-booked longer distance travel. For instance I have to pay more to get to Reading and back in a day than I paid to get to either Bath or Swansea and back.

Other points

Like HS1, with good design the HS2 railway line can be made to blend in with environment. I think that the railway bridge over the river Medway looks better than the one carrying the M2. Although it is possible for travellers to talk to each other using video conferencing I believe that most people like the face to face contact which is why you see politicians and others going to a specific meeting place to talk to each other. Not only do people want to travel but they want to do it as fast as possible, which is why most people fly across the Atlantic Ocean instead of going by liner and we no longer have people walking in front of motor cars holding a red flag.

I think that the HS should connect to the Continent first with a projected by-Pass of central London, to eventually link to the north. This would enable continental business to flourish. It would also test the ‘validity’ of the cost projections, and if they escalate beyond reason, then a good business link would have been made and we could take a breather and reconsider the HS throughout the UK. Exports are our life-blood and should be the initail focus of ‘gross’ expenditure from which we would have a reasonable chance of making a profit from overseas. Internal development is good for the internal economy but we do need to widen our external business.