Your view: can you be too old for new tech?

I am 89 and lost my short term memory over 2years ago. I have always loved new technology, so it was hard not to be able to use my computer nor, at first, my IPad. I.have since regained a lot of memory although not very short term memory. One of my most useful possessions is a talking watch
which is great – I always know the day and date. It is all coming back. Looking through old photos is a great help – providing you have names on the back. Even if you don’t, old diaries are a great source of memory when you are looking at them. Best of luck

Having read so many comments I am a little diffident in expressing my views !! However at nearly 96 (correct !) I am still using Desktop,Laptop,ipad and Mobile Phone every day and would be lost without Skype-having a large extended family overseas–I consider you are never too old to learn-Hugh

hmm not sure I’d agree with your comments on facebook, as:

1) they’re forever changing things and mostly not for the benefit of the user
2 and this is the worst part they don’t vet the ads that get put up, there’s one currently with the words money saving expert on it and its the same cowboys behind the tax return gateway “scam”, and nothing to do with Mr Lewis’s MoneySavingExpert and there’s no easy why to report dodgy ads.

I am not sure if they could help but it could be worth reporting the ad which is concerning you to 1) The Advertising Standards Association, and 2) your local Trading Standards Office. In my experience, the latter claim to be interested in anyone who misprepresents themselves as someone else.

I’ve already told money saving expert (twice), and tweeted Trading Standards and Action Fraud, but not one of them has responded.

William – Perhaps I should not have commented on Facebook since I don’t use it, but people of all ages seem to cope well with it. The well known concerns about Facebook are the main reason I don’t use it.

I can relate to a many new gadgets seeming trivial, John. That is the main reason that I put off buying a satnav until they were commonplace. As someone with such a poor sense of direction that I can head in the wrong direction even if I am on the right street, I am very glad to have Jane on my TomTom offering advice and it is very reassuring when we are in agreement. By avoiding missing motorway junctions and not going round the houses in built up areas, I reckon I have saved the cost of the device. I hate to arrive late at meetings, so it is reassuring to know that I have 20 minutes to spare. Most of my friends have a much better sense of direction, so I’m not surprised that some of them regards satnavs as pointless gadgets.

Vynor – Many have expressed concern about this but perhaps technology has brought benefits. If photos do survive in digital format, they will remain as good as the day they were taken, whereas colour prints and slides are prone to fading. Many newer cameras record the location they were taken in addition to the date and time, which should save the need for educated guesses that could well be wrong.

Perhaps there is need for a gadget to encourage us to archive photos and text with a view to preserving a record of events in our lives. If we keep everything, future generations would be overwhelmed by the amount of material of considerable insignificance. 🙂

I must have a look through my DVD-RAM discs before disposing of them and the drive.

I almost agree. Electronic communication tends to be to the point and message specific, whereas letters can diverge as the writer pens his/her thoughts and feelings. It is this essence that will be missed in the future. Not so much news as the way we are and how we function. Of course, there were fewer letters but their “considerable insignificance” was what made them special. I suppose the web blog is the nearest comparison, provided someone makes a hard copy of anything worth keeping.

I think you are right, Vynor. I was thinking only about the technical aspects of keeping material for future generations. I am very glad that my mother decided to write an account of her early life – on paper.

Agree NFH its the “change” thing !
This concern about age and new technology is not new, it was around 50 years ago, its just that with technology changing so rapidly the changes are more noticeable.

If a device (e.g. computer, TV, phone, satnav) has a screen then an instruction manual should not really be needed. The advantage of this approach is that information can be context-sensitive, so it is easier to find the help you need. The information can also be updated if necessary, for example if there is a software update.

Whether instructions are provided on paper or on screen, they need to be well written. Poor instructions cause frustration.

I’m very happy with the minimalist instructions that came with my new phone – one small sheet of paper, the size of the phone. I suppose the alternative might have been a thick booklet in fifteen languages or a wallchart-size poster neatly folded a hundred times, again in fifteen languages. 🙁

I must disagree, if only because the screen of a smartphone or a satnav can be more difficult to read (especially in the passenger seat of a car) than a piece of paper or a computer screen. I do not generally mind if the manual is a .pdf file provided it is meaningful. As an example, I have had a Samsung smartphone for over two years and have still not fathomed how to insert a telephone number into the contact list without actually making a call (I have the instructions in a manual but cannot apparently relate them to the available buttons.) and it took me a long time to fathom how to change the PIN for voicemail, bearing in mind that one has to respond to voice prompts while looking at the dial – initially I did not realise that the responses were by voice and not on screen.
Also, I think there is a great difference between a manual for new users and an aide-memoire to act as a reminder of procedures learned in the past, while I appreciate the costly problems of trying to prove tested manuals for new technology when rushing to get it on the market.
I think a particular problem of we interested senior citizens is that we do not necessarily move in circles which include someone using the same piece of equipment, partly because contact circles may be smaller and partly because our circles include a significant number of people who refuse to use computers or smartphones etc.

bsg – My comments were my personal view and I know people who definitely prefer printed manuals. Whichever is our preference, some manufacturers could do much better at making their products easy to use. You are absolutely right about contact circles. Young people tend to help each other and I have exploited this peer support when ‘teaching’ new students to use computers for more serious uses.

Entering new phone numbers on mobile phones can be challenge because there seems to be no standard. A friend once explained that I had some numbers stored on my mobile and some on the SIM card and transferred them to one or other. I’m still little the wiser about this but doing a backup seems to save them all.

wavechange – no offence meant. But I think that we are in an area where Which might be able to help. When reading their Reviews, or the General guides for technology items, I have not found them much help in deciding how I might actually find using the device. Perhaps, Which should set up a panel of (probably, but not necessarily) older members who are not using the latest technology daily (like I would expect Which staffers to do) and invite them to ‘suss-out’ a new product and provide appropriate comments.
Perhaps some sort of grading on the lines of ‘Equipment and manual easy for new users to undersatand and use’ to ‘Difficult to use without guidance from an existing user’ with 5 grades?
It is easy to say that you can try before you buy, but in most cases there are a lot of matters that cannot be covered in a short session, particularly ‘unknown unknowns’ as Rumsfeldt called them. Certainly, I did not anticipate the problems of data entry which I encountered when I replaced a basic mobile with a smartphone – fortunately the local o2 shop staff were very helpful but there is a limit to how many times you wish to ask them a new question of the sort we are discussing.

‘On screen’ help systems can be useful on occasions but they do have some drawbacks. The biggest problem is when the help file describes a lengthy series of actions to be carried out. It is often difficult to remember all of the instructions when trying to carry them out.

The point about software changes is well made. I use TurboCAD as my CAD application. Version 4 is installed on my ancient W95 desktop and is delightfully simple to use. The later versions provide many more options and facilities, but to do so have made the basic operations more difficult to carry out – operations that could be carries out with a single click on V4 are often several layers down in a menu in the later versions. The result is that most of my work is still done on the ancient V4 version!

bsg – I very much agree that it would be useful to have ease of use assessed by those who have little experience with similar products, and this presented in Which? reviews as you have suggested.

A good test of the design of a user interface is whether most people can use at least the basic functions of a product without looking at instructions, other than relevant safety information.

I would like to see some standardisation in how products function, provided that this does not interfere with future development. It is useful that we have widely used labels for play, stop, power switch, earphone socket, etc. For example it would be useful to decide whether a light should come on, go off, stop flashing or change colour when a battery is charged – rather than having different schemes on different products. With smartphones we have companies taking each other to court for copying useful features, which does not do much to encourage uniformity and ease of use.

Wavechange. Thank you for the support. If any of the technophiles do not understand what we are talking about concerning manuals, I would suggest an analogy from the pre Satnav age. Thus, there were many occasions when trying to navigate a car using a local person’s/company’s directions that I wished that they had had those instructions checked by a stranger to the area. eg: A ‘correct’ direction to ‘turn’ into some street could be of little help in heavy traffic when the street nameplate was printed using small letters, and possibly only visible when travelling in the opposite direction. No problem if you know the names of most of the streets in the area but of little use to a stranger.
I wonder if which staff have time to monitor these conversations and take note.

“I wonder if which staff have time to monitor these conversations and take note.” The fact its taken upto 48 hours to get some posts of mine authorised I’d guess not. And that included waiting 24 hours after emailing them asking if there was a problem with it, and not getting a reply. 🙁

bsg – That is something else to agree on. 🙂 Lack of visible street names has been a long-standing problem for me, and it is often the streets in busy towns and cities that are the problem. Thankfully, my satnav is a great help with street names, though that is no substitute for good signage.

Fascinating and useful correspondence, this. I agree 100% about the angst surrounding the lack if manuals and unexplained changes of software. Facebook can be a nightmare. However i gather that Facebook is losing face because of so many over-50s using it. I’ve just acquired a smartphone and would rejoice in it except there is no guidance in how to make it do things, when there is clearly so much it CAN do! Young people, and even the high street retailers get impatient with oldies’ lack of understanding. Nonetheless, at 83, I wouldn’t be without the new means of communication.

I wonder if older people are less likely to use gadgets that they own. Like Figgerty, I cannot get on with earphones and a couple of iPods have seen little use. I only have them because they came free with Macs. It was still great fun to play with the diminutive iPod Nano when it arrived and to download apps on the iPod Touch, but they are like unused kids’ toys a week after Christmas. One of the reasons that I like to play with friends’ gadgets is so that I can have some fun without the expense – like a kid with a new toy.

Welcome back Figgerty. I have been receiving the weekly Which? emails, so it might be worth checking your spam folder.

Thank you for the welcome.

I reported the missing weekly email the first week and received the following reply:

“I’m sorry to hear that you didn’t receive your newsletter last week, there was a problem with the mailing of this which our IT Department are aware of. The issue has been prioritised to ensure the problem is resolved ahead of this week’s mailing.” The email contained a link to the that weeks newsletter.

I did not receive the email last week (Wk 2) but did not get around to reporting it again. I was checking the site last night to see if there is a link to the newsletter and happened upon this very interesting conversation.

Please enlighten me Figgerty : What are the weekly newsletter e-mails from Which? I can’t recall having ever seen them. Should I be looking at the main website perhaps?

Good to hear from you again, by the way . . . there’s been some ripping stuff on here lately!

Hi John,hope all is well with you. The newsletter I refer to is an email received every Friday which is titled “Your weekly update from Which?” it is the weekly headlines or highlights and this weeks main feature is the Samsung Galaxy S5. This is a link to the one I received this evening.

http://view.mail.which.co.uk/?j=fece107271640678&m=fe9e137075650c7c75&ls=fe1f167370610375761d76&l=ff5b127772&s=fe571779726600757117&jb=ff6110717c&ju=fe6a1573726c047d7516&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_campaign=emmembers_newsletter20140328&r=0

I don’t know if this will be approved by the moderator but as ir’s a link to Which? data it should not be blocked.

Thanks v. much Figgerty. That’s helpful and it seems to be one of the more welcome pieces of mail that drops into the inbox. I have been having a major ‘unsubscribe’ blitz and I wonder if it went the way of lots of others, although I don’t recognise it at alI. I shall see if I can subscribe afresh.

Getting back on topic, as we must of course, . . . I can cope with all manner of new technology, it’s the dreadful content that puts me off [or words to that effect].

Beryl, John and others may enjoy the Which? Technology weekly podcasts. Some of the contributors to the informal discussions will be familiar to those who contribute to Which? Conversation. I wonder how many of us listen on a regular basis.

Maybe we should pay a visit to Which? Tech Daily, sister site to this one, and start discussing the need to make gadgets user-friendly for people of all ages. 🙂

Thanks Wavechange I will certainly look into Which? Tech daily although for my part it will be a case of playing catchup for a while. Patrick has certainly chosen a subject which has proven to be something of a ‘hot topic’ but very enlightening nevertheless.

I’m finding it very difficult to find out through the main Which? website how to get the weekly newsletters issued by e-mail every Friday as recommeded by Figgerty. Although the website refers to them there seems to be no link for signing up to receive them. I persist, however, and am awaiting a response next week to a Contact Us enquiry. Steering a course back to the topic . . . it’s not the tech that hampers us sometimes but the navigation perhaps.

I’m afraid it’s the memory that hampers me. I can’t remember how I managed to get on the email list but I’m reasonably sure I have received the weekly email from the beginning of my membership which is about two years. I reported the non receipt to which @ which.co.uk and received a reply a couple of days later.