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Is Microsoft being too pushy with Windows 10?

Windows 10 hard sell

Microsoft is keen for you to upgrade to Windows 10, but at what point does this cross the line into pressuring its customers?

I’d challenge you to name which version of iOS or Android your phone is running without checking the specs. When Apple or Google release a software update, it just happens. You tap ‘Yes’, you install it, and you may not notice much change.

Upgrading to Windows 10

Now, take a look at the effect Windows 10 has had. Microsoft is supposedly fighting for relevance in a world that loves touchscreens more than spreadsheets. But when it drops an update like Windows 10, this crusty old brand shows it can still make an impact.

We’ve had thousands of queries from our readers about whether to update their PCs or not. That’s because when Microsoft gets it wrong (which it can – see Vista or 8!), it affects millions of us. We stay in touch via our PCs; we work, we shop, we bank with them. A poor software update can make these everyday things harder to do.

The Windows 10 hard sell

Microsoft is ramping up the pressure on its customers to install Windows 10. One tactic sees Windows 10 being automatically downloaded on to people’s PCs due to a simple change of wording. Microsoft changed the Windows 10 update from ‘optional’ to ‘recommended’, which means it’ll download automatically if you have Windows Update enabled (which most users do).

We’ve explored a number of other tactics in the latest issue of Which? Computing, including locking newer processors to Windows 10 and setting a time limit for the free upgrade (it’s 29 July 2016 in case you’re interested).

There’s lots to like about the new OS, but you should still have a choice over upgrading or not. Windows still matters in the age of tablets, but it will matter to you even more if you end up with a version you don’t like.

Have you felt pressured into upgrading your computer to Windows 10?

Comments
Guest
MikeW1945 says:
22 March 2016

From my experience, Microsoft is being excessively pushy with Windows 10. I look after several PCs. In each case, the manufacturer has made clear that the PC is not compatible with Windows 10, usually because suitable graphics drivers are not available. Microsoft has pushed Windows 10 to the extent that it has downloaded onto three of the PCs, and has actually installed on one, For the one, not surprisingly, there were serious graphics problems and I had to waste time downgrading to Windows 8.1.

This push has wasted hours of my time and cost money because download caps have been exceeded. There are no Microsoft approved options to reject this upgrade unless you turn off the security updates, risking putting PC security at risk.

I would be happy to use Windows 10 on any PC which supports that operating system, but it is not acceptable to push in such a way that perfectly good computers are messed up. I know that I could search and possibly find new drivers for some of the graphics devices (not all), but I have much better uses for my time!

Microsoft has gone a step too far this time and needs to be pulled back.

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Guest

Mike- I appreciate your post ,what it shows me is society is so well “ingrained ” into Windows that it is now part of their life ,that you could put in so nice a way about an operating system that controls you .controls. your computer, spies on you 24/7 ,and if you try to stop it by changing the programming ,it changes it back. Decides what IT will allow to be on its system ,blocks you from making changes that allow you a lot of control over it. hides the next step up from user ,but even there has downgraded it to be just a sop to your ego , where if you check in deep permissions there is a large number of controllers who have much more control over your computer . Wont let apps install that can block/change its domineering qualities , “updates ” that blue screen you , block your favourite apps ,block you from the Web and even take over or control your paid for protection system (done secretly ) . Mike- nice as you sound MS OWN your computer not you. And that doesnt take into account that now and more so in the future you will be confined to apps approved by MS and PAYED for including updating the system in the years to come,there is also the official need to “sign in ” if you dont you lose facilities as well as the “app store ” Win 10 is installed on approx 10 % of Windows systems world wide , Win XP ? slightly more and rising THATS why its being forced onto you and millions of others . MS are losing it worldwide its system on all devices worldwide is very small ,its desperate and it shows . ME ? open source only now – I own my PC not the system owning it. BY the way 1 year + 4 months NO windows updates whatsoever on the Win 7 Prof. section which I hardly use now ,just to update the needed security system I paid for because of the multitude of open doors on Windows for access by our and America,s security services who I know personally can take over your computer just like MS can. Thats why you are forced to install protection ,what the NSA/GCHQ can do so can hackers , IF there were NO -“backdoors ” to control Windows you wouldnt need half the updates for security but MS in their “wisdom ” wanted total control over THEIR system ,hence the backdoors.

Guest
haroldsheets says:
24 March 2016

I agree we down loaded windows twice and it didn’t work rite. The big problem is they don’t service what they sell or just giveaway. in any case try to ask them a question on the internet and all you get is some one from India or Mexico wanting moneyWINDOWS & microsoft THIS IS YOUR RESPOSIBILITY !Now help before you lose all people trying to use your program!!!!

Guest
Peaches says:
24 March 2016

Unfortunately got me it upgraded me automatically it’s a nightmare lost my printer and scanner cannot find f drive to carry out backup

Guest
Peter says:
24 March 2016

Me too – had to scrap a perfectly good Canon printer! Naughty Microsoft.

Guest
Heidi says:
28 March 2016

Every other time I switch on my laptop I get this damn upgrade message . My partner upgraded to Windows 10 by mistake . He hates it but isn’t computer savvy enough to go back . It is too pushy , I want to stop seeing this ad .

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Guest

Heldi – I will take one thing at a time . Your partner -how long was it that he mistakingly upgraded to Win !0 ? You have only 30 days to rollback to Win 7/8/8.1 , if it is over that time , you would need to re-install the old system ,IF you have a retail disc to do it NOT an OEM version , because MS takes a note of your motherboard and stops you transferring to another computer otherwise. If your partner,s computer is UNDER 30 days in Win 10 then go to settings> Update+Security and you should see =go back to Windows 7or 8.1 – click the -get started button you will be asked why are you going back ? tick my apps dont work on Win 10 -then click next -then window -what you need to know -tick -next -then window -dont get locked out -tick next. You will still be left with the -your free upgrade popup on reverting back . I will post next on removing that.

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Heldi-To stop seeing the ad you need to do a bit of programming to remove the updates on your computer, as I dont know how conversant you are with doing that ,so as I said in a post further down this Convo the easiest way is to download- GWX Control Panel from – ultimateoutsider.com/downloads- click on download installer and follow instructions . Download ONLY from this website NOT C.net.com or others . If you arent able to use it ask somebody who can run it for you . On the other hand if you are used to changing the programming in windows ,let me know and I will supply the full list of KB updates that should be removed from your computer . Under NO circumstances click on the update to win 10 window if you are using Win 7/8.1 . My advice is to stay with the system you have now ,get back to me Heldi and I will guide you ,if required .

Guest
Gail Glaser says:
27 May 2016

I am incandescent with rage ! Microsoft have just done this to me 2 days ago. I am not that computer savvy and now I find I cannot do things I desperately need to do ( business wise) and my IT guy cannot come out to me till prob end of next week. I cannot afford a bill from my IT guy at present let alone getting new printers etc. I shall be reverting to Windows 8 but I cannot do it myself. I want to know where to send a bill to Microsoft because I shall definitely be needing reimbursement. I cannot possibly see how this can be legal.

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Guest

Gail I am with you 110 % on this to me its outrageous that they can get away with this –and they can because they own the system its whats called a “closed source ” .What you have is a license agreement with them exactly like a hired car you never own the car ,neither do you own the system . As you have only had this forced on you in the past few days and it is an up-grade from Windows 8 (which I take is the case ? ) then it is simple to downgrade to win 8 . Open the start menu -select -settings–click the –Update and Security icon –select–RECOVERY–you should see a –go back to windows 7 and another saying -go back to windows 8.1 –click the -GET STARTED button to get RID of the Windows 10 install – MS have a box to ask you WHY you want to go back –feel free to vent your anger ! . Gail -you have –1 MONTH to do this DONT wait ! I hope this helps others too . For those over a month this option is REMOVED by MS so for those wanting help with reverting in that case let me know . If you can do this pretty straight forward thing yourself good –if not and you dont have any friends/ relatives able to help GET BACK and I will help you step by step. Best of luck !

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,bishbut says:
23 March 2016

I have tried Windows 10 twice and did not like the unsolvable problems I kept finding so twice I went back to Windows 8 and I will not even think of trying 10 again When I asked cortina it put me on Bing sites that had nothing to do with the simple question I had asked. But All new P Cs not have Windows 10 I have fallen out with Microsoft

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,bishbut if you used cortina the NSA now has you on its voice identity file they intent to cover the world as well as American citizens . Its not a fault that cortina ,using Bing “maneuvered ” you to certain websites , its part of the “process ” ,if you read the small print ,and are you ready for this “Americanism ” ? –to give you more of a Internet “experience “-aka -paid for websites . Have you ever read Dilberts book on Weasels ,as in US business weasel talk ?

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As I see it, moving between successive recent versions of Windows is not really “upgrading”.

For me, XP defines what a good PC needs to be able to do. As far as I can see, with regard to the key W.I.I.F.M? (what’s in it for me?) question, none of the more recent versions of Windows offers anything more.

I’d be interested to hear what tangible benefits Which? and others think are actually offered by later versions. I can see that touchscreen support might interest some, but what else is there?

Like Duncan, I now mostly just use Linux. It allows me to enjoy an XP style experience but without all the hassle that is part and parcel of the Windows user experience.

Guest
Alan Foster says:
23 March 2016

I have used Microsoft operating systems since early 1980’s (MS DOS). I have given Windows 10 a ten week trial. I didn’t like to start with, and by the end of the ten weeks, I hated it. I simply believe that an operating system should do what you instruct it to do, not perform operations that change things in the back ground without the users express instruction to do so.
My opinion is, if you prefer the Windows 10 then use it. But please Microsoft, stop trying not only to convince, and in some cases force users to adopt an operating system that we don’t like and don’t want!

Guest
Tony says:
23 March 2016

I run Win 7. Microsoft tell me Win 10 will NOT support my legacy software for example my licensed copy of Word. Their response BUY A NEW COPY OF OFFICE! So its a nice revenue earner for Micro$oft….

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Guest

Keep running Win 7 Tony its the Worlds most popular MS system its got a few years to run yet and in the meantime -have a go at LInux on dual-boot it wont cost you anything and you get Libre Office Free , includes Writer .math,impress,draw.calc,base,etc , the easiest is LInux Mint. 17.3 you might even like it .

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I managed to install a test case of Office 2000 in W10 – so I thought it was actually not bad at supporting so-called “legacy” s/w.

But if the idea of continually paying for new versions of M$Office does not appeal, then just go for as many free copies of LibreOffice as you like. I am a big fan of Excel, but I am learning to get by in Calc.

Guest
Malcolm B says:
24 March 2016

I am getting extremely fed up of a several-times-a-day popup appearing on my desktop, exhorting me to install W10.
I really have to wonder what the real reason is. One wonders, is there something wrong with W7 that they’re not telling us about, or is there something in Win10 that they want that they’re not telling us? Because they are putting an awful lot of effort into giving something away.

I probably will update on my main PC, but will leave it until the early adopters have beta tested it as far as possible.
I have installed it on an infrequently used laptop, with only limited software, and nearly everything eventually worked without too much hassle. The HP power monitor was dumped, that seems to be the only thing so far.
I dislike the interface, but that’s another matter.

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Guest

Malcolm your “popups ” are “courtesy ” of MS who have decided to make the updates include installation of Win 10 on Win 7/8 computers they have made them “advisory ” so that eventually one day you will turn on your computer and Win 10 will be installed or install without your asking for it . As you intend to update to Win 10 anyway there is no point in me telling you how to block a whole list of those “updates ” .

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Guest

Malcolm, if your Windows 7 system is the Professional or Ultimate Edition then you can uninstall and then hide the update that gives you Windows 10. There are instructions on the internet if you do a search. That’s what I’ve done on my laptop, which is still running Windows 7 and which I still much prefer to the Windows 10 that I’ve been using on my desktop PC for the past 8 months and which I still hate.

Guest
Jeremy says:
24 March 2016

There is a “known issue” with Windows 10 that involves the program changing back to default Microsoft programs after updates. It keeps telling me that there is a problem with Adobe Acrobat Reader and resets to the default PDF program – MS Edge. I got so fed up with this that I found and downloaded a program called EdgeBlock, but TrojanHunter then told me this contained a trojan . . .

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Guest

Jeremy have you tried making Adobe Acrobat the default PDF reader ? Cant find EdgeBlock can you post at least part of the URL so I can switch to Windows and use my own protection to see if the website is downloading a trojan or as I have found if MS don’t want you installing your own apps they are “adjusting ” your protection to say the app contains a virus of one sort or another I have had 3 programs on Windows blocked by my OWN private protection which MS control via Windows.

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Guest

Microsoft have gone too far this time.

We have two PCs with Win7 and one with XP. They all have their uses and I want to keep them that way for now. I do not want Win10 at the moment.

I have stopped doing updates because I can’t be bothered to check them all out first and I don’t want any more MSware installed on my computers or Win10 self installing.

Officeclicktorun is an MSware that really annoys me. MS office and Outlook will not run unless officeclicktorun is enabled. Officeclicktorun is automatic updates and I want to update my machine at a time of my choosing not when Microsoft want to do it. I often run my pc for days on end and like to do updates on a freshly booted machine to avoid problems.

If Microsoft don’t back off, Linux or similar will have the opportunity to be the new favoured operating system as there is a limit to what people will put up with.

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Guest

alfa I take it you are using a non-Profession/Enterprise version of Windows ? If so you are going to have as hard time,if not impossible quest of blocking updates that MS think you should have , some you can delay but eventually they force install . You could try .unplugging your desktop but a laptop is battery powered and usually uses Wi-Fi for the Internet connection . To give you an instance I bought several old PC,s cheaply as spares at a boot sale and jumble sale, in case my main PC breaks down , one a Dell I left plugged in but powered down I awoke during the night to see a green light (LED ) run light come on at 2-30 AM ,it was trying to phone home to MS but couldnt –why no Wi-Fi enabled and I shrewdly unplugged the LAN cable .When it couldnt phone home it switched back off itself . For several years I have been unplugging my main PC completely from the mains at night .

Guest
Paula Varley says:
24 March 2016

I was able to stop them installing secret files through updates then foisting windows 10 on me. It all stinks. They are pursuing the apple model, in the hope we will end up with no choice but windows apps in the future – or so it looks to me. I do not want windows 10 on my computer, and I think it’s plain wrong for a software company to install it behind my back. They should ask for permission – and be prepared to take no for an answer. Windows 7 actually works just fine – unlike windows 10 which has many glitches. Does anyone use the tiles? I have yet to meet one person who does!

Guest
Paula Varley says:
24 March 2016

GWX Control Panel – google it – it will solve the windows 10 by the backdoor problem – if it isn’t too late. If you complain to Microsoft, it’s what they advise you use. They talk you through it.

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Guest

updates are to blame, one for Win7 and one for Win8 … personally I’m sticking with Win7, like many friends I know and help, who don’t want and certainly don’t like Win10 .. It is a ploy by MS to get everyone on it, whether they want to or not, it XP all over again … how many place do you still see using XP??????, I’ll bet it still many!!!

BTW if you help friends with their pc problems and find that travelling sometimes takes longer than the fix, as long as they can use the internet, use Teamviewer to help them (it’s like Log Me In ) but for personal use, it’s FREE as long as you don’t abuse it… Hope this helps .. Let’s keep WIN7 alive and kicking….

[This comment has been edited to align with our Community Guidelines. Thanks, Mods]

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Guest

No offence Dave , I know you mean well but I would not tell anybody in their right mind to install Team viewer its used by India desk scammers who are making life hell for the British public . I do agree with other parts of your post. Comment from a tech.repair guy- a team viewer was used in a download to ransom a computer that was brought to me to repair —the download was used to install encryption to the drive that was then locked out after a payment they were given a key to unlock the drive —-it DID NOT WORK — only after a TOTAL delete/format AND reinstall did it boot back up -end quote . To any Which viewer do NOT take the advice above I dont care who or what says –“its safe ” I can prove them WRONG ! -beware !

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Guest

Hey Duncan, no offence taken, but to say ” but I would not tell anybody in their right mind to install Team viewer ” is a bit over the top….. As I said I use it to help friends so if an Indian desk scammer asked me to download it I would say know, so how do you help friends??? And you should only get it from Teamviewer ..It’s a Swiss company so if any suspect helpdesk person asked me to download it I would be nervous as most firms use Log Me In.. The way you have worded it gives the company a bad name, and yes I did work in a computer shop and I’ve seen a few hick ups and still do… Also I’ve been hit buy the ransom lock out, and I sorted it out without delete/format AND reinstall, so that person was taken in buy a bad guy ……

Guest
Paul Davidson says:
24 March 2016

Been using 10 for a while (both on PC and laptop). Pain to set up initially. MS Cortana terrible. Patronising and highly irritating. Soon shut that down! No real problems using it (more based on XP than how MS want you use it). I agree with others, MS are being far too pushy. Why? Bill Gates does not normally provide free software, particularly costly operating systems. There must be some future agenda that is probably going to clobber the unsuspecting user. Just in passing, check your MS PRIVACY SETTINGS (just type this and you are in – GET RID OF CORTANA FIRST. Check all the various settings carefully. Do not misinterpret MS help notes. Some of the default settings may well cause you concern. Switch off any you do not like. Of course we are confident that when they are switched off, it means just that. Are we not?

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Paul the long term policy and ,kicking and struggling , they admitted it , is that while Win 10 is the “last ” version of the Windows system , they will in the future be charging for all apps on it and dont think because you get it free its a “bargain ” ,its not , they dont not envisage the version of it now lasting long ,inside 10 years , what will happen is that they will download “upgrades ” to it , the problem ?? , you will then be charged for the privilege of the upgrade or live with it as it is BUT you will then find your apps will stop working as they have been given a set life . In any case they are making millions of $$$$ in selling your data to third parties and YES ! they admit it. 24/7 spy network AND if you turn it off ,guess what ?? big brother MS turns it back on . Many dont mind I do Windows is finished for me only open source now. MS know they have only a very small percentage of ALL Internet devices in the world using Windows and purpose in 10 years time to come out with something new in the mobile line as far as a system is concerned . They have failed worldwide ,they know , but does the public know it ?

Guest
Paul Davidson says:
25 March 2016

Duncan, thanks – just confirms my fears. MS can bypass any security. How do I know – they may (probably) have my bank details. I have a youtube download of Gates inside the original game of DOOM (remember it?). He was force-selling Windows ’95 even then. His visions. MS have a carte blanche attitude; as long as $$$$$$$$ flow inwards. I can see your logic for the future. Spying – I note sometimes that my router flickers when I use the keyboard. Why? You are correct – MS are suspect (I doubt that Gates is even aware of what may be going on (or even cares)). Are CIA and FBI involved – probably. MS is like a cancer, spreading everywhere. The malignancy may KILL; it may spontaneously cure itself; it may respond to aggressive therapy; it may be cured; it may remit, then relapse; it may be surgically removed and disposed of. Where are MS on this scenario? I favour the last!

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Guest

Quite amazingly, the companies who provide various versions of Linux (etc.) DO provide free software. Nonetheless, their staff still get paid and can afford to live.

How do they managed to achieve this?

Some customers, not least businesses, choose to pay to have their free software supported.

Others contribute by donating money, often via charitable foundation, or by working for free, in their spare time, to help test and develop the software.

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Derek LInux MInt the operating service I use relies on donations from the public and advertising on its website . Obviously MS “agents ” arent happy or paid hackers as the LInux MInt website was attacked in February and the server taken out ,their website was impersonated and anybody downloading from it in February downloaded viruses . It is now back up -more secure with HTTPS being used and other measures . BB=Mafia.

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Guest

In my experience, a lot of hackers live for the thrill of a successful hack. Where these folk have chosen the dark side, they won’t care much about who they are hacking. In their eyes, penetrating (and then messing up) any website they can is just good sport.

Hence, my speculation is that the attack on Mint may well have just have been a random success for the hackers involved, as opposed to an attack directed for the benefit of M$ and its friends (it if has any).

Guest
Dennis says:
25 March 2016

The other day friend of mine switched on his computer, and without asking windows 10 began the upgrade.
Not knowing what to do he let it continue.

Guest
Nic says:
25 March 2016

I went to my desk to discover that Windows 10 had been loaded without my doing anything and it asked me to agree. I didn’t but I now have a permanent window open asking me to reschedule and I can’t close it down. I do not want to upgrade just now because I have a couple of pieces of work on and I don’t want to risk any problems and don’t have the time to have to learn a new OS. I will upgrade in a couple of months when I have time but it appears that’s not good enough for MS. I feel very pressured and I don’t think it is acceptable.

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These are alarming accounts of people having Windows ten thrust upon them. Which themselves highlight the intrusions that Microsoft can make and it seems that their suggestions about turning off these spy features are useless, since they can be turned back on again. I have avoided upgrading simply because I have quite a lot of valuable software on my laptop and I have no guarantee that any of it will work under Windows ten. Unlike most of you, I have no issues with Windows eight point one and my Vista desk top functions very well too. Both computers do everything I ask of them, so why fix something that ain’t broke?
I hope Which can tell me how to stop Windows ten automatically loading, without giving up the security fixes that download automatically. I hope that my security software will help here, since it asks permission to start a programme, before it opens. Like others I’m fed up with the Windows ten pop ups, but so long as they can do no more then I’ll wait until Microsoft charges for Ten and then I can safely forget about it. No pay, no ten, hurrah.

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Guest

Vynor – if you are not capable of opening the registry on Windows and creating a “D ” word in the registry then do as suggested by another poster a while back download GWX control panel this is the simplest way to do it if you are not going to stop Automatic downloads of updates for Windows (you can easily but MS will eventually change it back ) and you already have it on your computer . the URL is- ultimateoutsider.com/downloads-click on -download installer and follow instructions. I must emphasis= UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES download it from ANYWHERE ELSE especially -download.com -aka C,NET or any other like it. Let me know how you get on as there are many more technical ways to stop this but involve some programming and I dont know your technical expertise on computer programming .

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Vynor and anybody else who is fed up with being forced to endure pop-ups and tracking on Win 10 being installed on Win 7/8/8.1 I have the full list of –KB “updates ” that should be removed from your computer that will stop all those problems . As the list is long and I have posted it in the past on Which I will wait till posters ask me to do it .

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Arch Stanton says:
27 March 2016

I upgraded my laptop last autumn and had to pay £75 to get my laptop to work again. The repair shop said ‘I was one of dozens of customers that the same problem and it was proving to be a right money-spinner’ for the owner. He effectively said that Microsoft was using people as guinea-pigs, as Windows 10 was no where near perfect enough to be on general release back in September last year. This has infuriated me no end and Microsoft should pay redress to everyone affected.

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Guest

Arch you are absolutely right ,even the business tech websites think its still not the done deal yet . MS even admitted when pushed they still had “problems ” with it and that Win 10 -Home users were being used as guinea pigs till they got it right . Thats why Win 10 Prof./Enterprise could delay the downloads but not Home users. Those type of users were more likely to be business people or those using it for professional means and had apps that were used in their business practices , dont want to upset the big hitters who operate from 10 to a 1000 computers or more . You cant say MS hasnt any economic business sense , the shareholders have to be paid , just wait till you have to pay for all apps and an eventual “upgrade ” by download in the future. Its not fair but life nowadays is run that way. Oh and by the way ,the enterprise version for business allows you to block or stop a lot of things you cant do in the basic version .

Guest
Dave Ross says:
29 March 2016

I’m on 8.1 and am actually liking it!! My MS experience has been of using Win3.1, Win 95, WinME (which really didn’t like my hardware very much. I went through 6 HHD’s and 2 processors), WinXP (Which was probably my favourite OS to date), then after MS stopped supporting XP; and I got to see big red messages on my screen saying things were no longer supported, I moved to Win8 and got that nice free update to 8.1. The one thing I don’t like about getting Win10 (apart from the pushy pop-up to d/load it), is the fact that we cannot choose when to install updates, apparently they’re automatically downloaded! Not every update currently offered for my version of OS works, most aren’t even relevant (updates designed for Windows Server/RT, not 8.1)! At present, I check the info that comes with every update and decide there and then if I need to d/load and install it. I’ve seen a crafty update worded in the brief description as an “Important or Critical Security Update” but on actually visiting MS, it’s to get my PC ready to receive Win10! I have found an ex-MS employee on youtube, that has taken his time to tell you how to block/switch off the security updates in Win10 called “Barnacules Nerdgasm.” Well worth looking up, as he makes you very aware that MS do a lot more than make you have unwanted updates, they also monitor everything you do (including what you type), it can also monitor your camera/microphone too, what for I do not know, but surely that’s a privacy invasion on its own?!! For that reason, I’m trying everything I can not to upgrade to win10, as quite frankly, I think my PC will be hijacked by MS for whatever purposes they want to use it for, without my knowledge or permission, just for agreeing to the terms in the EULA. Lastly, has anyone got an xBox1? I have to unplug it from my router, each time I switch it off. For some strange reason, even though the console appears to be powered down, the power pack isn’t; and I faint noise can be heard from the console itself, with the router light flashing away as if data is being shared. Are MS freely using the XB in the same way they can take over someone PC for their own (MS) uses with Win10, I have no idea, but it does certainly concern me if they are doing so, again without permission. People with capped Bband would probably be unaware that their data usage was being used.

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Dave thanks for backing up what I have been saying here for a long time , some even argued against me ,maybe people will see and understand MS hasnt got your interests at heart but its OWN ! Your right about the Xbox your data is going out including turning on/off your mike+camera in a computer . I always unplug my PC from the mains at night as I have seen it switch on at early AM times when I used Windows . As I said in a previous post I keep an old Dell PC as a spare ,if I leave it plugged into the mains (but not the internet ) its start LED comes on early AM , and no it isnt for “updates ” its for info transmission and data sent to change or interrogate my Windows programming , so windows “no more” for me – Freedom with open source .

Guest
Afilsdesigner says:
30 March 2016

I’ve used Microsoft products all my working life starting with MSDOS!! I’ve also wasted whole months of my life fighting various bugs, issues, crashes and other MS inspired grief. Win 3.11 was OK but Win XP was the first OS that worked properly once you tamed how to hack the registry! Having been forced to abandon XP, I reflected on all this grief, took the plunge and transferred the whole business onto Linux. It was a huge decision and took a few weeks to sort out but the differences are simply tremendous. We use Fedora 23 Workstation with the Xfce spin. It is fast, fantastically reliable, simple, boots up in seconds, adapts to our VPN connection well and updates seamlessly without stopping us working (at all).

Even better, it supports Virtualbox which allows us to run any OS including XP within a container. So all our software and databases continue to work fine and the whole thing can run either connected or isolated from the web. Each container can be backed up and becomes completely ‘bomb proof’. We have Win 8.1 and 10 loaded up as well, so we could have all three OSs running at the same time if we wanted. The really great thing about this setup is that files that Windows locks you out of can be deleted or worked on in Linux – a lifesaver and stuff you MS!

I will NEVER buy another Microsoft product ever – promise.

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Afilsdesigner- I will never buy another Microsoft product ever-promise I am with you there !

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ian thompson says:
2 April 2016

my experience was not good. They said nothing changes or will be lost, not true.
They disabled my Norton security and replaced with Mac Affee which offered to sell me services.
Lost my e mail service.
Lost my Microsoft office suite, but hey they offered to sell me a new one?
Lost photos.
Just a mess.
No contact details for Microsoft.
I had to take laptop back to retail store who said £50.00 to sort.
After three weeks of running around I managed to restore my own 8.1 system .
Really annoyed at Microsoft, my advice is stay away from 10 unless you are buying it fresh.

Guest
David Payne says:
4 April 2016

I was quite enthusiastic about installing W10 on my Dell XPS One 2710 aio. It had downloaded automatically and accompanying information gave me to understand it would be OK for my computer. After installation, I had no sound or video, ironic, as the new system introduces itself via videos! I eventually allowed Microsoft to ‘take over’ my computer to see if they could identify the problem. They couldn’t, but as I followed what they were doing on my screen, I noticed a message about updating video drivers: also that Dell had not tested my machine for W10 compatibility. I am not readily conversant with updating firmware, but had the time to fathom it out. Eventually I must have done something right, as my computer is now working normally (as far as I know!).
Searching through Dell’s website I found confirmation that my machine has not been tested for W10 and they have no plans to do so. Why not, it’s a relatively new machine? More interestingly I went on to Dell forums and found there have been several instances of my model machine having been updated to W10, only to have the motherboard fail, even more than once on the same machine. Dell have repaired when under guarantee, but not otherwise, I believe. It begs the issue, whose problem is it when new software causes catastrophic damage to a host machine? I have seen no response from Microsoft to this question, but neither have Dell pointed the finger at Microsoft, it seems.

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Good point David , its getting bad that MS are not discriminating between computers that can be upgraded to Win 10 and those that cant ,normally before the installation is finished you are told it cannot go ahead and it is reverted back to the old system.Knowing MS this can only be a deliberate introduced policy. You make a good point on the motherboard issue as those that have windows installed by OEM -ie-not bought retail cannot use the their old system program to install on another computer and the reason for that ties up with the motherboard . Now MS cant change the hardware on a motherboard but they certainly can the software programed into it. MS take your motherboard number and use that as a block from re-installing your old Windows after the time-out period for going back to your old system . But MS have no legal right to cause an incurable fault to occur due to their “tampering ” with your motherboard . MS +Dell have “business ” together ,if you know what I mean .

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Julian Alington says:
4 April 2016

I wish I had stayed with windows7 that I found simpler and more convenient.

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Hi, we’ve just published a new guide to help ensure Windows 10 doesn’t install against your will: http://blogs.which.co.uk/technology/laptops-2/has-windows-10-installed-itself-without-asking-you/

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I followed your instructions and deleted the update. This meant re-starting the computer and a five minute windows update. Having found this update now in the “important” section of updates, I hid it, as instructed, only to find it re-ticked when I checked back on updates available. I’ve told my computer not to download updates without permission. I wonder if this will be something else that is ignored?

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Ps. Windows knows I’ve done this. They immediately flashed up a pop up telling me to update before July 29th. Different wording this time to the usual “we recommend.”

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VynorHill -if you dont mind me telling you rather than Patrick do as follows– Using Group Policy Editor – Press WIN+R keys to launch RUN box type=gpedit.msc -press Enter go to Computer Configuration >Administrative Templates>Windows Components>Store. In RHS pane double-click on= Turn off the offer to update to the latest version of windows option and set its value to Enabled —Thats it. Hope this helps others with the same problem . Get back if gpedit is NOT on your computer as there is another way.

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For the record I dont get any of this win 10 update rubbish as I have blocked my old Win 7 on dual boot from updating . They obviously dont like it and have tried attacking my programmes I have installed but I just kept on blocking things like remote control of computer ,there are several types on windows it stops then sneaking it in . You can make a new user if they cause you trouble and set different rules .

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Needed a new laptop, and chose a quad core Intel i7 from HP which should be s*** off a shovel.

Not only is it seemingly slower overall than my old i5, but has continuing graphics driver problems.

HP say m/c won’t support W7 which I would have preferred, so may need to invoke ‘not fit for purpose’ to return it for something else???

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Bromley61a,

Sorry to hear about your laptop problems.

At the bottom end of the i7 range, there seem to be some i7 CPUs that are slower than some of the i5’s. In car terms, expecting all i7’s to be faster than all i5’s is a bit like expecting all Renaults to be faster than all Citroens, even when they are both stuck in the same traffic jam.

Also, one of the problems with running “bleeding edge” hardware and software is that such things may not be fully debugged when first released for sale.

I note also that PC sales droids (and PC enthusiasts) love to “quote the numbers” and then “upsell” home buyers into buying much more capable machines than they actually need. Although some home applications, like 3D gaming, can really push PCs to the limit my personal experience has been that most home apps run fine on adequate middle of the road hardware.

W10 is supposed to be faster than W7; nonetheless one might expect that OSX (i.e. “unix”) and Linux systems can be faster still. Hence, if speed is important to you, you may want to “re-purpose” your i7 with a genuine upgrade to a faster OS.

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Hi Bromley61a- Your right an i7 should be faster I have an old i7 in my PC ans its fast. Its intriguing HP say your laptop wont support W7 , I take that as meaning HP,s motherboard has blocked installation of it. But it is the case that once you upgrade a Win 10 system you have a limited time to revert back to Win 7 but yours is new so this wont apply so MS take note of your motherboard number and block you changing the system to an earlier one . Its possible to build on yourself and find a Win 7 retail disc and install that . Win 10 comes with a lot of useless apps installed that slow down your computer if you go to system settings and >apps&features and uninstall as many as you dont use like MS News /weather -get office /etc there is also another type of app -Windows store -go to > windows Settings apps >Apps & Features page .There is also Startup seen via TAsk Manager click on >startup some an be disabled like adobe creative cloud and so forth which load your computer and run in the background you can disable these also you can use Disk cleanup for (C:) cleanup system files . If you are capable , right click >start menu then >control Panel search for Performance >click on adjust appearance + Performance >open advanced tab and click >change then >uncheck Automatic then click on >drive system is installed on select custom size then > set initial and maximum size to recommended value by windows ( should be shown value ) then > click set and then restart. . Need any help get back . If I thought you had some programming knowledge (correct me here as I dont know your level ) then you could install LInux on dual-boot and your laptop speed would increase to Formula 1 . Please get back to me for help in any way. –Should add ,if you go to HP,s website they will tell you how to upgrade your video drivers.

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selims says:
1 May 2016

I’m aged, with minimal understanding of computers. BUT I’m dependent on my 6 year old Dell laptop, for shopping, browsing, e-mails and letter-writing. I struggle to adjust to new processes, spending as much time figuring how to do stuff as doing it, having no easy access to support. Now I’m intimidated by Microsoft/Windows 10! Firstly their bullying to update from 7; I’d be like my friend , so deskilled by the change she’s given up e-mailing and other tasks she was accustomed to, barely using her computer now. Then I was worried by the Microsoft’s multiple ‘updates’, taking 30 – 45 minutes daily, for several weeks. I feared they were imposing Windows 10 by stealth – I signed up for an option. My lap-top became slower and slower until virtually paralysed and crashing frequently – I was loath to use it. Yesterday I employed expertise, who spent an hour deleting superfluous programmes. He explained my machine was not built to operate with the quantity of data microsoft takes up, hence its deterioration. He deleted a lot of stuff, my laptop is useable, but he warned me it will soon be overburdened again! I could buy a new laptop with more memory, but that doesn’t solve the problem – I would be unable to master all the new processes, and give up, with all the consequences of growing more out of touch, isolated and lonely. I’ve browsed alternatives but they all require a degree of tech knowhow beyond my capacity. Microsoft has a lot to answer for!

It’s amazing they can be so destructive without being held to account.

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Thank you for that selims , you have justified all my warnings here on windows 10 for the average UK computer user . A well presented ,logical,straight forward rebuttal against the win 10 “fanboys ” . Its all very well Which and others saying -click on this link for help in win 10 problems but many in this country just want a computer that is simple to use without the massive downloads , spying, controlling. etc of MS -and they dont get it . They get a bloated advertising monopolized system installed and I perfectly understand many cant take to LInux as it requires a bit of computer tech. knowledge but you can install simple running systems looking like windows but not with all the spying etc and boot ups that are amazingly fast . Windows spends all its time “phoning home ” on what you are doing on your computer , even on boot up many “services ” go into action ,just check out the services you cant stop . What a difference in LInux the only processes are the essential ones , and memory ,even with a bloated Firefox its still under 1 G . Many lighter LInux distros can be run entirely on memory and use minute amounts of system processor and dont dare tell selims to- get “with it ” and buy a xyz – high speed Intel/AMD chip computer or I will answer back on his behalf of what I think of somebody who cares not for the human being only business.

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Selims, I have been convinced for a while now that Microsoft are doing exactly as you describe, installing software to slow down your computer. Presumably, when it gets too bad, everyone will go out and buy a nice new Windows 10 computer.

But we don’t all want a new computer or Windows 10. Many of us are happy with what we have. If our computers do what we want them to do, why should we be forced into upgrading?

Not everyone can afford to keep replacing their technology. The chances are with Windows 10 you might find your software no longer works or your printer no longer works then more expense.

Then there are people like yourself who struggle to adapt and like your friend who give up altogether.

It is time Microsoft were held to account to let people upgrade when they want to not when Microsoft force them to.

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I think a lot of people who only really need a laptop for internet based things like email and browsing should be thinking about “upgrading” to ChromeBooks not W10.

Essentially, a ChromeBook is an “appliance” that will lets one access Google’s internet services and others too. Because they run a stripped down a version of Linux, managed by Google, they ought to offer reasonably trouble free performance.

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Microsoft are getting worse. You already can’t run Outlook unless an MS automatic update program is always running. Now they are getting rid of Windows Live Mail 2012.

An email sent 20th May:

Dear User,

Earlier this year we introduced a new Outlook.com that provides enhanced performance, security and reliability.

It appears that you are currently using Windows Live Mail 2012 to connect to your Outlook.com account. Windows Live Mail 2012 does not support the synchronisation technologies used by the new Outlook.com. When account upgrades begin at the end of June, you will no longer be able to send or receive email sent to your Outlook.com account in Windows Live Mail 2012. Rest assured, you can always access your Outlook.com account via any web browser at any time, and you will continue to have access to all your data that is currently in Windows Live Mail 2012.

If you currently use Windows Live Mail 2012, we recommend that you switch to the Mail app in Windows today. The Mail app is built in to Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. To begin using it, simply launch the app and add your Outlook.com account.

If you are using Windows 7, you can upgrade to a newer version of Windows to use the Mail app. If you do not wish to upgrade, you can access your account via a web browser, or you can take advantage of a free one-year subscription of Office 365 Personal and use Outlook 2016 to connect to your account.* Outlook 2016 works on Windows 7, Windows 8/8.1 and Windows 10.

Please take action before 30 June 2016, which is when we’ll begin upgrading accounts that currently use Windows Live Mail 2012.

We recognise that changes like this can be difficult, and apologise for any inconvenience this causes you. If you have more questions, please find answers to common FAQs in this help article, or you can contact Microsoft support.

Yours sincerely,
Outlook.com team

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YEs alfa and check deeper into what the app contains and you will find it adds to their spying capacity.

Guest
David says:
26 May 2016

Has anyone in particular lost a printer driver for a Dell S2810dn (laser printer) after a forced update from W 7->10?

I came down one morning and at 8.00 h found that W.10 had installed itself overnight.

I downloaded & reinstalled the printer driver – so I thought – but I still can’t print.

A friend told me several years ago that many US employers were using older versions of Windows to spy on their employees. This was declared lawful I think, on the basis that in your working hours you ‘belong’ to your employer.

Well now, it seems that M’soft itself wants to spy on the whole world, just as Google does. I don’t use Google much, I use duckduckgo.com when possible as it searches the internet and doesn’t track you.

This disgraceful episode will I foresee lead me to Linux and away from M’soft for good.

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David-Your printer driver up -date is available on the Dell website for windows 10 -64 bit -dell smart printer/S2810dn PCL Driver -version 6.7.2.2,A01 -release date 30-10-2015 . It is unfortunate you had a forced download thats MS for you -we own your computer not you. As far as your friend telling you that US employers control company computers well thats worldwide the same applies here you dont think they allow you to play games on it or visit porn sites that has happened in the past . And dont think that your computer being remote from the office they cant control it ,for about 500 bucks there is American software (for businesses ONLY ) that acts just like a major hacker in that it can control 100,s of computers by logging into them and watching what you are doing on it just like GCHQ can and controlling it to stop you making changes or misusing it . The good news is you are thinking of moving to Linux where YOU own your computer and YOU own the system and YOU control its use.

Guest
David says:
27 May 2016

Thanks. I’ve now at last got a working printer again. I now have to revert to W.7 if I want a PC more under my control. ‘Only’ 3.5 wasted hours of my life so far.

This matter was on BBC R4 You and Yours today. Lots of listeners have been affected.

I have limited legal knowledge, but enough to think that Microsoft has gone way beyond what ‘permission’ it had (under ‘security updates’) to put new files on peoples’ PCs.

Under EU Directives (and UK law based on them) we have rights against ‘merely’ for instance having unwanted files placed on our PCs (as Microsoft has done to me). If these rights are infringed, it means a right to substantial damages.

Anyone else interested in taking legal advice re a class (‘group’ in the UK) action lawsuit?

David.

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I would be very interested in what David has said as regards a class action and whether he will get backing from other posters upset with what MS has done . I hope others reply to him . MS says its their system and being a closed one its their patent and the terms and conditions allow them to make changes or “update ” it as they see fit . They look on it as a type of “renting ” whereby you do not own the product and if they want to upgrade it whether free of charge or come July not that is up to them . Knowing MS you have an uphill climb David but I admire your determination I have the same so understand it . THey say they now have 300 Million users of Windows 10 worldwide but how many had forced downloads to account for it ?? You can revert back to Win 7 which I have but do not use on dual boot but as it is over a month it would be a re-installation so use an external HD to store your personal data before you start and also bear in mind that you will need a retail disc as OEM reversion is not allowed as your motherboard is now tagged by MS so you cant ask MS to revert you back . If you dont have a disc then you will have to download an ISO and burn it to disc and use that ,you will also need your product key . There are also retail discs for win 7 for sale on the net and in computer mags. If you need any help let me know .

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I think a class action would come down to the T’s & C’s that we all accept (but never bother to read and understand?) each time we start to use a new Windows PC (or a fresh installation of Windows).

Also, any class action might be a long and tedious process, with no guarantee of success.

Meanwhile, tech savvy consumers can choose to pursue other “anti-Microsoft” options:

For instance, one can exercise customer choices that favour Apple and/or Google instead of Microsoft.

Personally I’d rather be “spied on” by Google than by Microsoft, and I don’t want to be milked by Apple. Hence, for those just needing a simple life, I advocate home computers running either Android or ChromeOS over those running Windows or OSX.

Others may opt to pursue a truly free solution, like a full GNU version of Linux, or something approximating to that, like one of the more polished free versions of Linux.

Since I have to use both Linux and Unix in my day job, I now also use them at home too. That means I can buy “new”(*) PCs for as little as £9.99. (*new as in new to me – but running 2nd-hand hardware.)

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Microsoft might have rights to their software, but do they have the right to change that software to the detriment of other software or hardware you have bought and paid for?

Many manufacturers keep drivers available for older graphic cards & printers, even older versions of Google Earth still work on older computers.

I once had to replace a Radeon graphics card in an old computer. I found a new older Radeon graphics card but the latest drivers would not work. But older drivers were available on the manufacturer’s websit, I could carry on using my computer in the way I wanted and I was not being forced into replacing my computer.

When I bought a new pc with Win7, it was with the knowledge some of my older software and hardware might not work. That was my choice.

But does Microsoft have the right to force you to replace hardware and software that they make unusable?

Does Microsoft have the right to run updates on your computer any time it wants?

Doesn’t anyone have the legal clout to stop Microsoft forcing Win10 on us without our permission?

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alfa its way beyond that MS publically said its going to run its own undersea fibre cable from the US to Europe .It takes little thought that this will tie in with the US take-over of Europe under the “secret ” TTIP ” or the even more “secret” CETA which cameron +co . dont want us to talk about because it is the Canadian version of the same thing and America owns Canadian BB . MS is so big that it will be defended by the UK/EU governments to the death. Yes MS has “the rights ” to run updates against your will . Whose going to stop them ?? not any government nor most western websites its just too big to quarrel with . Can you see Which campaigning against it ?? it would be very brave if it did and I wont mention what goes on pressure wise to businesses who make trouble for MS .

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I expect we grant these rights to M$ each time we fire up each new instance of Windoze.

I still remember being somewhat miffed when I paid £90 to upgrade from Windows Me (me! me! me!) to XP only to find my Microsoft Gaming Joystick was not supported. [No joy there then 🙁 ]

Anyway, que the “we need a hero” music and bring on Richard Stallman… 🙂

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Well its happened – An American business woman sued MS for a forced download that screwed up her computer—and WON !! they paid out $10000 according to the US newspaper the floodgates are now open for 1000,s of more cases in the US . Poor old UK just accepts it just as they accept MS basing itself in Eire so avoiding UK tax along with Google and amazon . I should add that if a box appears asking you to accept Win 10 do NOT !!! click on the X as slyly that is a front for accepting it and it will start installing

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MS is getting even more “pushier ” . As of October those still using Win 7/8 , as well as Win 10 will no longer have a choice of what updates they want to install you will be forced to accept the lot ! That includes all those ones you wouldnt normally accept that help MS spy on you svchost is now busier than ever “phoning home ” on your every move and apps for advertising will be downloaded automatically , thank God I ditched Windows !

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I see Linux can no longer be installed on some Lenova laptops. Full story:

bbc.co.uk / news/ technology – 37431299

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Yes Ian because of Raid which has problems in LInux . Raid is the use of two devices to speed up computer systems , it can be used in HDD and video cards ,it is not an essential part of any system. What worries me is Chris Green,s comment at the end — If users want to wipe it and install an OS of their choice , its a casec of “buyer beware ” the CEO of MS couldnt have put it better . Translated= stick to Windows.