Is Microsoft being too pushy with Windows 10?

Bromley61a,

Sorry to hear about your laptop problems.

At the bottom end of the i7 range, there seem to be some i7 CPUs that are slower than some of the i5’s. In car terms, expecting all i7’s to be faster than all i5’s is a bit like expecting all Renaults to be faster than all Citroens, even when they are both stuck in the same traffic jam.

Also, one of the problems with running “bleeding edge” hardware and software is that such things may not be fully debugged when first released for sale.

I note also that PC sales droids (and PC enthusiasts) love to “quote the numbers” and then “upsell” home buyers into buying much more capable machines than they actually need. Although some home applications, like 3D gaming, can really push PCs to the limit my personal experience has been that most home apps run fine on adequate middle of the road hardware.

W10 is supposed to be faster than W7; nonetheless one might expect that OSX (i.e. “unix”) and Linux systems can be faster still. Hence, if speed is important to you, you may want to “re-purpose” your i7 with a genuine upgrade to a faster OS.

Thank you for that selims , you have justified all my warnings here on windows 10 for the average UK computer user . A well presented ,logical,straight forward rebuttal against the win 10 “fanboys ” . Its all very well Which and others saying -click on this link for help in win 10 problems but many in this country just want a computer that is simple to use without the massive downloads , spying, controlling. etc of MS -and they dont get it . They get a bloated advertising monopolized system installed and I perfectly understand many cant take to LInux as it requires a bit of computer tech. knowledge but you can install simple running systems looking like windows but not with all the spying etc and boot ups that are amazingly fast . Windows spends all its time “phoning home ” on what you are doing on your computer , even on boot up many “services ” go into action ,just check out the services you cant stop . What a difference in LInux the only processes are the essential ones , and memory ,even with a bloated Firefox its still under 1 G . Many lighter LInux distros can be run entirely on memory and use minute amounts of system processor and dont dare tell selims to- get “with it ” and buy a xyz – high speed Intel/AMD chip computer or I will answer back on his behalf of what I think of somebody who cares not for the human being only business.

Selims, I have been convinced for a while now that Microsoft are doing exactly as you describe, installing software to slow down your computer. Presumably, when it gets too bad, everyone will go out and buy a nice new Windows 10 computer.

But we don’t all want a new computer or Windows 10. Many of us are happy with what we have. If our computers do what we want them to do, why should we be forced into upgrading?

Not everyone can afford to keep replacing their technology. The chances are with Windows 10 you might find your software no longer works or your printer no longer works then more expense.

Then there are people like yourself who struggle to adapt and like your friend who give up altogether.

It is time Microsoft were held to account to let people upgrade when they want to not when Microsoft force them to.

I think a lot of people who only really need a laptop for internet based things like email and browsing should be thinking about “upgrading” to ChromeBooks not W10.

Essentially, a ChromeBook is an “appliance” that will lets one access Google’s internet services and others too. Because they run a stripped down a version of Linux, managed by Google, they ought to offer reasonably trouble free performance.

YEs alfa and check deeper into what the app contains and you will find it adds to their spying capacity.

Thanks. I’ve now at last got a working printer again. I now have to revert to W.7 if I want a PC more under my control. ‘Only’ 3.5 wasted hours of my life so far.

This matter was on BBC R4 You and Yours today. Lots of listeners have been affected.

I have limited legal knowledge, but enough to think that Microsoft has gone way beyond what ‘permission’ it had (under ‘security updates’) to put new files on peoples’ PCs.

Under EU Directives (and UK law based on them) we have rights against ‘merely’ for instance having unwanted files placed on our PCs (as Microsoft has done to me). If these rights are infringed, it means a right to substantial damages.

Anyone else interested in taking legal advice re a class (‘group’ in the UK) action lawsuit?

David.

I would be very interested in what David has said as regards a class action and whether he will get backing from other posters upset with what MS has done . I hope others reply to him . MS says its their system and being a closed one its their patent and the terms and conditions allow them to make changes or “update ” it as they see fit . They look on it as a type of “renting ” whereby you do not own the product and if they want to upgrade it whether free of charge or come July not that is up to them . Knowing MS you have an uphill climb David but I admire your determination I have the same so understand it . THey say they now have 300 Million users of Windows 10 worldwide but how many had forced downloads to account for it ?? You can revert back to Win 7 which I have but do not use on dual boot but as it is over a month it would be a re-installation so use an external HD to store your personal data before you start and also bear in mind that you will need a retail disc as OEM reversion is not allowed as your motherboard is now tagged by MS so you cant ask MS to revert you back . If you dont have a disc then you will have to download an ISO and burn it to disc and use that ,you will also need your product key . There are also retail discs for win 7 for sale on the net and in computer mags. If you need any help let me know .

I think a class action would come down to the T’s & C’s that we all accept (but never bother to read and understand?) each time we start to use a new Windows PC (or a fresh installation of Windows).

Also, any class action might be a long and tedious process, with no guarantee of success.

Meanwhile, tech savvy consumers can choose to pursue other “anti-Microsoft” options:

For instance, one can exercise customer choices that favour Apple and/or Google instead of Microsoft.

Personally I’d rather be “spied on” by Google than by Microsoft, and I don’t want to be milked by Apple. Hence, for those just needing a simple life, I advocate home computers running either Android or ChromeOS over those running Windows or OSX.

Others may opt to pursue a truly free solution, like a full GNU version of Linux, or something approximating to that, like one of the more polished free versions of Linux.

Since I have to use both Linux and Unix in my day job, I now also use them at home too. That means I can buy “new”(*) PCs for as little as £9.99. (*new as in new to me – but running 2nd-hand hardware.)

Microsoft might have rights to their software, but do they have the right to change that software to the detriment of other software or hardware you have bought and paid for?

Many manufacturers keep drivers available for older graphic cards & printers, even older versions of Google Earth still work on older computers.

I once had to replace a Radeon graphics card in an old computer. I found a new older Radeon graphics card but the latest drivers would not work. But older drivers were available on the manufacturer’s websit, I could carry on using my computer in the way I wanted and I was not being forced into replacing my computer.

When I bought a new pc with Win7, it was with the knowledge some of my older software and hardware might not work. That was my choice.

But does Microsoft have the right to force you to replace hardware and software that they make unusable?

Does Microsoft have the right to run updates on your computer any time it wants?

Doesn’t anyone have the legal clout to stop Microsoft forcing Win10 on us without our permission?

alfa its way beyond that MS publically said its going to run its own undersea fibre cable from the US to Europe .It takes little thought that this will tie in with the US take-over of Europe under the “secret ” TTIP ” or the even more “secret” CETA which cameron +co . dont want us to talk about because it is the Canadian version of the same thing and America owns Canadian BB . MS is so big that it will be defended by the UK/EU governments to the death. Yes MS has “the rights ” to run updates against your will . Whose going to stop them ?? not any government nor most western websites its just too big to quarrel with . Can you see Which campaigning against it ?? it would be very brave if it did and I wont mention what goes on pressure wise to businesses who make trouble for MS .

I expect we grant these rights to M$ each time we fire up each new instance of Windoze.

I still remember being somewhat miffed when I paid £90 to upgrade from Windows Me (me! me! me!) to XP only to find my Microsoft Gaming Joystick was not supported. [No joy there then 🙁 ]

Anyway, que the “we need a hero” music and bring on Richard Stallman… 🙂

I see Linux can no longer be installed on some Lenova laptops. Full story:

bbc.co.uk / news/ technology – 37431299

Yes Ian because of Raid which has problems in LInux . Raid is the use of two devices to speed up computer systems , it can be used in HDD and video cards ,it is not an essential part of any system. What worries me is Chris Green,s comment at the end — If users want to wipe it and install an OS of their choice , its a casec of “buyer beware ” the CEO of MS couldnt have put it better . Translated= stick to Windows.