Is Microsoft being too pushy with Windows 10?

Mike- I appreciate your post ,what it shows me is society is so well “ingrained ” into Windows that it is now part of their life ,that you could put in so nice a way about an operating system that controls you .controls. your computer, spies on you 24/7 ,and if you try to stop it by changing the programming ,it changes it back. Decides what IT will allow to be on its system ,blocks you from making changes that allow you a lot of control over it. hides the next step up from user ,but even there has downgraded it to be just a sop to your ego , where if you check in deep permissions there is a large number of controllers who have much more control over your computer . Wont let apps install that can block/change its domineering qualities , “updates ” that blue screen you , block your favourite apps ,block you from the Web and even take over or control your paid for protection system (done secretly ) . Mike- nice as you sound MS OWN your computer not you. And that doesnt take into account that now and more so in the future you will be confined to apps approved by MS and PAYED for including updating the system in the years to come,there is also the official need to “sign in ” if you dont you lose facilities as well as the “app store ” Win 10 is installed on approx 10 % of Windows systems world wide , Win XP ? slightly more and rising THATS why its being forced onto you and millions of others . MS are losing it worldwide its system on all devices worldwide is very small ,its desperate and it shows . ME ? open source only now – I own my PC not the system owning it. BY the way 1 year + 4 months NO windows updates whatsoever on the Win 7 Prof. section which I hardly use now ,just to update the needed security system I paid for because of the multitude of open doors on Windows for access by our and America,s security services who I know personally can take over your computer just like MS can. Thats why you are forced to install protection ,what the NSA/GCHQ can do so can hackers , IF there were NO -“backdoors ” to control Windows you wouldnt need half the updates for security but MS in their “wisdom ” wanted total control over THEIR system ,hence the backdoors.

I agree we down loaded windows twice and it didn’t work rite. The big problem is they don’t service what they sell or just giveaway. in any case try to ask them a question on the internet and all you get is some one from India or Mexico wanting moneyWINDOWS & microsoft THIS IS YOUR RESPOSIBILITY !Now help before you lose all people trying to use your program!!!!

Unfortunately got me it upgraded me automatically it’s a nightmare lost my printer and scanner cannot find f drive to carry out backup

Me too – had to scrap a perfectly good Canon printer! Naughty Microsoft.

Every other time I switch on my laptop I get this damn upgrade message . My partner upgraded to Windows 10 by mistake . He hates it but isn’t computer savvy enough to go back . It is too pushy , I want to stop seeing this ad .

Heldi – I will take one thing at a time . Your partner -how long was it that he mistakingly upgraded to Win !0 ? You have only 30 days to rollback to Win 7/8/8.1 , if it is over that time , you would need to re-install the old system ,IF you have a retail disc to do it NOT an OEM version , because MS takes a note of your motherboard and stops you transferring to another computer otherwise. If your partner,s computer is UNDER 30 days in Win 10 then go to settings> Update+Security and you should see =go back to Windows 7or 8.1 – click the -get started button you will be asked why are you going back ? tick my apps dont work on Win 10 -then click next -then window -what you need to know -tick -next -then window -dont get locked out -tick next. You will still be left with the -your free upgrade popup on reverting back . I will post next on removing that.

Heldi-To stop seeing the ad you need to do a bit of programming to remove the updates on your computer, as I dont know how conversant you are with doing that ,so as I said in a post further down this Convo the easiest way is to download- GWX Control Panel from – ultimateoutsider.com/downloads- click on download installer and follow instructions . Download ONLY from this website NOT C.net.com or others . If you arent able to use it ask somebody who can run it for you . On the other hand if you are used to changing the programming in windows ,let me know and I will supply the full list of KB updates that should be removed from your computer . Under NO circumstances click on the update to win 10 window if you are using Win 7/8.1 . My advice is to stay with the system you have now ,get back to me Heldi and I will guide you ,if required .

I am incandescent with rage ! Microsoft have just done this to me 2 days ago. I am not that computer savvy and now I find I cannot do things I desperately need to do ( business wise) and my IT guy cannot come out to me till prob end of next week. I cannot afford a bill from my IT guy at present let alone getting new printers etc. I shall be reverting to Windows 8 but I cannot do it myself. I want to know where to send a bill to Microsoft because I shall definitely be needing reimbursement. I cannot possibly see how this can be legal.

Gail I am with you 110 % on this to me its outrageous that they can get away with this –and they can because they own the system its whats called a “closed source ” .What you have is a license agreement with them exactly like a hired car you never own the car ,neither do you own the system . As you have only had this forced on you in the past few days and it is an up-grade from Windows 8 (which I take is the case ? ) then it is simple to downgrade to win 8 . Open the start menu -select -settings–click the –Update and Security icon –select–RECOVERY–you should see a –go back to windows 7 and another saying -go back to windows 8.1 –click the -GET STARTED button to get RID of the Windows 10 install – MS have a box to ask you WHY you want to go back –feel free to vent your anger ! . Gail -you have –1 MONTH to do this DONT wait ! I hope this helps others too . For those over a month this option is REMOVED by MS so for those wanting help with reverting in that case let me know . If you can do this pretty straight forward thing yourself good –if not and you dont have any friends/ relatives able to help GET BACK and I will help you step by step. Best of luck !

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,bishbut if you used cortina the NSA now has you on its voice identity file they intent to cover the world as well as American citizens . Its not a fault that cortina ,using Bing “maneuvered ” you to certain websites , its part of the “process ” ,if you read the small print ,and are you ready for this “Americanism ” ? –to give you more of a Internet “experience “-aka -paid for websites . Have you ever read Dilberts book on Weasels ,as in US business weasel talk ?

Keep running Win 7 Tony its the Worlds most popular MS system its got a few years to run yet and in the meantime -have a go at LInux on dual-boot it wont cost you anything and you get Libre Office Free , includes Writer .math,impress,draw.calc,base,etc , the easiest is LInux Mint. 17.3 you might even like it .

I managed to install a test case of Office 2000 in W10 – so I thought it was actually not bad at supporting so-called “legacy” s/w.

But if the idea of continually paying for new versions of M$Office does not appeal, then just go for as many free copies of LibreOffice as you like. I am a big fan of Excel, but I am learning to get by in Calc.

Malcolm your “popups ” are “courtesy ” of MS who have decided to make the updates include installation of Win 10 on Win 7/8 computers they have made them “advisory ” so that eventually one day you will turn on your computer and Win 10 will be installed or install without your asking for it . As you intend to update to Win 10 anyway there is no point in me telling you how to block a whole list of those “updates ” .

Malcolm, if your Windows 7 system is the Professional or Ultimate Edition then you can uninstall and then hide the update that gives you Windows 10. There are instructions on the internet if you do a search. That’s what I’ve done on my laptop, which is still running Windows 7 and which I still much prefer to the Windows 10 that I’ve been using on my desktop PC for the past 8 months and which I still hate.

Jeremy have you tried making Adobe Acrobat the default PDF reader ? Cant find EdgeBlock can you post at least part of the URL so I can switch to Windows and use my own protection to see if the website is downloading a trojan or as I have found if MS don’t want you installing your own apps they are “adjusting ” your protection to say the app contains a virus of one sort or another I have had 3 programs on Windows blocked by my OWN private protection which MS control via Windows.

alfa I take it you are using a non-Profession/Enterprise version of Windows ? If so you are going to have as hard time,if not impossible quest of blocking updates that MS think you should have , some you can delay but eventually they force install . You could try .unplugging your desktop but a laptop is battery powered and usually uses Wi-Fi for the Internet connection . To give you an instance I bought several old PC,s cheaply as spares at a boot sale and jumble sale, in case my main PC breaks down , one a Dell I left plugged in but powered down I awoke during the night to see a green light (LED ) run light come on at 2-30 AM ,it was trying to phone home to MS but couldnt –why no Wi-Fi enabled and I shrewdly unplugged the LAN cable .When it couldnt phone home it switched back off itself . For several years I have been unplugging my main PC completely from the mains at night .

updates are to blame, one for Win7 and one for Win8 … personally I’m sticking with Win7, like many friends I know and help, who don’t want and certainly don’t like Win10 .. It is a ploy by MS to get everyone on it, whether they want to or not, it XP all over again … how many place do you still see using XP??????, I’ll bet it still many!!!

BTW if you help friends with their pc problems and find that travelling sometimes takes longer than the fix, as long as they can use the internet, use Teamviewer to help them (it’s like Log Me In ) but for personal use, it’s FREE as long as you don’t abuse it… Hope this helps .. Let’s keep WIN7 alive and kicking….

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No offence Dave , I know you mean well but I would not tell anybody in their right mind to install Team viewer its used by India desk scammers who are making life hell for the British public . I do agree with other parts of your post. Comment from a tech.repair guy- a team viewer was used in a download to ransom a computer that was brought to me to repair —the download was used to install encryption to the drive that was then locked out after a payment they were given a key to unlock the drive —-it DID NOT WORK — only after a TOTAL delete/format AND reinstall did it boot back up -end quote . To any Which viewer do NOT take the advice above I dont care who or what says –“its safe ” I can prove them WRONG ! -beware !

Hey Duncan, no offence taken, but to say ” but I would not tell anybody in their right mind to install Team viewer ” is a bit over the top….. As I said I use it to help friends so if an Indian desk scammer asked me to download it I would say know, so how do you help friends??? And you should only get it from Teamviewer ..It’s a Swiss company so if any suspect helpdesk person asked me to download it I would be nervous as most firms use Log Me In.. The way you have worded it gives the company a bad name, and yes I did work in a computer shop and I’ve seen a few hick ups and still do… Also I’ve been hit buy the ransom lock out, and I sorted it out without delete/format AND reinstall, so that person was taken in buy a bad guy ……

Paul the long term policy and ,kicking and struggling , they admitted it , is that while Win 10 is the “last ” version of the Windows system , they will in the future be charging for all apps on it and dont think because you get it free its a “bargain ” ,its not , they dont not envisage the version of it now lasting long ,inside 10 years , what will happen is that they will download “upgrades ” to it , the problem ?? , you will then be charged for the privilege of the upgrade or live with it as it is BUT you will then find your apps will stop working as they have been given a set life . In any case they are making millions of $$$$ in selling your data to third parties and YES ! they admit it. 24/7 spy network AND if you turn it off ,guess what ?? big brother MS turns it back on . Many dont mind I do Windows is finished for me only open source now. MS know they have only a very small percentage of ALL Internet devices in the world using Windows and purpose in 10 years time to come out with something new in the mobile line as far as a system is concerned . They have failed worldwide ,they know , but does the public know it ?

Duncan, thanks – just confirms my fears. MS can bypass any security. How do I know – they may (probably) have my bank details. I have a youtube download of Gates inside the original game of DOOM (remember it?). He was force-selling Windows ’95 even then. His visions. MS have a carte blanche attitude; as long as $$$$$$$$ flow inwards. I can see your logic for the future. Spying – I note sometimes that my router flickers when I use the keyboard. Why? You are correct – MS are suspect (I doubt that Gates is even aware of what may be going on (or even cares)). Are CIA and FBI involved – probably. MS is like a cancer, spreading everywhere. The malignancy may KILL; it may spontaneously cure itself; it may respond to aggressive therapy; it may be cured; it may remit, then relapse; it may be surgically removed and disposed of. Where are MS on this scenario? I favour the last!

Quite amazingly, the companies who provide various versions of Linux (etc.) DO provide free software. Nonetheless, their staff still get paid and can afford to live.

How do they managed to achieve this?

Some customers, not least businesses, choose to pay to have their free software supported.

Others contribute by donating money, often via charitable foundation, or by working for free, in their spare time, to help test and develop the software.

Derek LInux MInt the operating service I use relies on donations from the public and advertising on its website . Obviously MS “agents ” arent happy or paid hackers as the LInux MInt website was attacked in February and the server taken out ,their website was impersonated and anybody downloading from it in February downloaded viruses . It is now back up -more secure with HTTPS being used and other measures . BB=Mafia.

In my experience, a lot of hackers live for the thrill of a successful hack. Where these folk have chosen the dark side, they won’t care much about who they are hacking. In their eyes, penetrating (and then messing up) any website they can is just good sport.

Hence, my speculation is that the attack on Mint may well have just have been a random success for the hackers involved, as opposed to an attack directed for the benefit of M$ and its friends (it if has any).

Vynor – if you are not capable of opening the registry on Windows and creating a “D ” word in the registry then do as suggested by another poster a while back download GWX control panel this is the simplest way to do it if you are not going to stop Automatic downloads of updates for Windows (you can easily but MS will eventually change it back ) and you already have it on your computer . the URL is- ultimateoutsider.com/downloads-click on -download installer and follow instructions. I must emphasis= UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES download it from ANYWHERE ELSE especially -download.com -aka C,NET or any other like it. Let me know how you get on as there are many more technical ways to stop this but involve some programming and I dont know your technical expertise on computer programming .

Vynor and anybody else who is fed up with being forced to endure pop-ups and tracking on Win 10 being installed on Win 7/8/8.1 I have the full list of –KB “updates ” that should be removed from your computer that will stop all those problems . As the list is long and I have posted it in the past on Which I will wait till posters ask me to do it .

Arch you are absolutely right ,even the business tech websites think its still not the done deal yet . MS even admitted when pushed they still had “problems ” with it and that Win 10 -Home users were being used as guinea pigs till they got it right . Thats why Win 10 Prof./Enterprise could delay the downloads but not Home users. Those type of users were more likely to be business people or those using it for professional means and had apps that were used in their business practices , dont want to upset the big hitters who operate from 10 to a 1000 computers or more . You cant say MS hasnt any economic business sense , the shareholders have to be paid , just wait till you have to pay for all apps and an eventual “upgrade ” by download in the future. Its not fair but life nowadays is run that way. Oh and by the way ,the enterprise version for business allows you to block or stop a lot of things you cant do in the basic version .

Dave thanks for backing up what I have been saying here for a long time , some even argued against me ,maybe people will see and understand MS hasnt got your interests at heart but its OWN ! Your right about the Xbox your data is going out including turning on/off your mike+camera in a computer . I always unplug my PC from the mains at night as I have seen it switch on at early AM times when I used Windows . As I said in a previous post I keep an old Dell PC as a spare ,if I leave it plugged into the mains (but not the internet ) its start LED comes on early AM , and no it isnt for “updates ” its for info transmission and data sent to change or interrogate my Windows programming , so windows “no more” for me – Freedom with open source .

Afilsdesigner- I will never buy another Microsoft product ever-promise I am with you there !

Good point David , its getting bad that MS are not discriminating between computers that can be upgraded to Win 10 and those that cant ,normally before the installation is finished you are told it cannot go ahead and it is reverted back to the old system.Knowing MS this can only be a deliberate introduced policy. You make a good point on the motherboard issue as those that have windows installed by OEM -ie-not bought retail cannot use the their old system program to install on another computer and the reason for that ties up with the motherboard . Now MS cant change the hardware on a motherboard but they certainly can the software programed into it. MS take your motherboard number and use that as a block from re-installing your old Windows after the time-out period for going back to your old system . But MS have no legal right to cause an incurable fault to occur due to their “tampering ” with your motherboard . MS +Dell have “business ” together ,if you know what I mean .

Bromley61a,

Sorry to hear about your laptop problems.

At the bottom end of the i7 range, there seem to be some i7 CPUs that are slower than some of the i5’s. In car terms, expecting all i7’s to be faster than all i5’s is a bit like expecting all Renaults to be faster than all Citroens, even when they are both stuck in the same traffic jam.

Also, one of the problems with running “bleeding edge” hardware and software is that such things may not be fully debugged when first released for sale.

I note also that PC sales droids (and PC enthusiasts) love to “quote the numbers” and then “upsell” home buyers into buying much more capable machines than they actually need. Although some home applications, like 3D gaming, can really push PCs to the limit my personal experience has been that most home apps run fine on adequate middle of the road hardware.

W10 is supposed to be faster than W7; nonetheless one might expect that OSX (i.e. “unix”) and Linux systems can be faster still. Hence, if speed is important to you, you may want to “re-purpose” your i7 with a genuine upgrade to a faster OS.

Thank you for that selims , you have justified all my warnings here on windows 10 for the average UK computer user . A well presented ,logical,straight forward rebuttal against the win 10 “fanboys ” . Its all very well Which and others saying -click on this link for help in win 10 problems but many in this country just want a computer that is simple to use without the massive downloads , spying, controlling. etc of MS -and they dont get it . They get a bloated advertising monopolized system installed and I perfectly understand many cant take to LInux as it requires a bit of computer tech. knowledge but you can install simple running systems looking like windows but not with all the spying etc and boot ups that are amazingly fast . Windows spends all its time “phoning home ” on what you are doing on your computer , even on boot up many “services ” go into action ,just check out the services you cant stop . What a difference in LInux the only processes are the essential ones , and memory ,even with a bloated Firefox its still under 1 G . Many lighter LInux distros can be run entirely on memory and use minute amounts of system processor and dont dare tell selims to- get “with it ” and buy a xyz – high speed Intel/AMD chip computer or I will answer back on his behalf of what I think of somebody who cares not for the human being only business.

Selims, I have been convinced for a while now that Microsoft are doing exactly as you describe, installing software to slow down your computer. Presumably, when it gets too bad, everyone will go out and buy a nice new Windows 10 computer.

But we don’t all want a new computer or Windows 10. Many of us are happy with what we have. If our computers do what we want them to do, why should we be forced into upgrading?

Not everyone can afford to keep replacing their technology. The chances are with Windows 10 you might find your software no longer works or your printer no longer works then more expense.

Then there are people like yourself who struggle to adapt and like your friend who give up altogether.

It is time Microsoft were held to account to let people upgrade when they want to not when Microsoft force them to.

I think a lot of people who only really need a laptop for internet based things like email and browsing should be thinking about “upgrading” to ChromeBooks not W10.

Essentially, a ChromeBook is an “appliance” that will lets one access Google’s internet services and others too. Because they run a stripped down a version of Linux, managed by Google, they ought to offer reasonably trouble free performance.

YEs alfa and check deeper into what the app contains and you will find it adds to their spying capacity.

Thanks. I’ve now at last got a working printer again. I now have to revert to W.7 if I want a PC more under my control. ‘Only’ 3.5 wasted hours of my life so far.

This matter was on BBC R4 You and Yours today. Lots of listeners have been affected.

I have limited legal knowledge, but enough to think that Microsoft has gone way beyond what ‘permission’ it had (under ‘security updates’) to put new files on peoples’ PCs.

Under EU Directives (and UK law based on them) we have rights against ‘merely’ for instance having unwanted files placed on our PCs (as Microsoft has done to me). If these rights are infringed, it means a right to substantial damages.

Anyone else interested in taking legal advice re a class (‘group’ in the UK) action lawsuit?

David.

I would be very interested in what David has said as regards a class action and whether he will get backing from other posters upset with what MS has done . I hope others reply to him . MS says its their system and being a closed one its their patent and the terms and conditions allow them to make changes or “update ” it as they see fit . They look on it as a type of “renting ” whereby you do not own the product and if they want to upgrade it whether free of charge or come July not that is up to them . Knowing MS you have an uphill climb David but I admire your determination I have the same so understand it . THey say they now have 300 Million users of Windows 10 worldwide but how many had forced downloads to account for it ?? You can revert back to Win 7 which I have but do not use on dual boot but as it is over a month it would be a re-installation so use an external HD to store your personal data before you start and also bear in mind that you will need a retail disc as OEM reversion is not allowed as your motherboard is now tagged by MS so you cant ask MS to revert you back . If you dont have a disc then you will have to download an ISO and burn it to disc and use that ,you will also need your product key . There are also retail discs for win 7 for sale on the net and in computer mags. If you need any help let me know .

I think a class action would come down to the T’s & C’s that we all accept (but never bother to read and understand?) each time we start to use a new Windows PC (or a fresh installation of Windows).

Also, any class action might be a long and tedious process, with no guarantee of success.

Meanwhile, tech savvy consumers can choose to pursue other “anti-Microsoft” options:

For instance, one can exercise customer choices that favour Apple and/or Google instead of Microsoft.

Personally I’d rather be “spied on” by Google than by Microsoft, and I don’t want to be milked by Apple. Hence, for those just needing a simple life, I advocate home computers running either Android or ChromeOS over those running Windows or OSX.

Others may opt to pursue a truly free solution, like a full GNU version of Linux, or something approximating to that, like one of the more polished free versions of Linux.

Since I have to use both Linux and Unix in my day job, I now also use them at home too. That means I can buy “new”(*) PCs for as little as £9.99. (*new as in new to me – but running 2nd-hand hardware.)

Microsoft might have rights to their software, but do they have the right to change that software to the detriment of other software or hardware you have bought and paid for?

Many manufacturers keep drivers available for older graphic cards & printers, even older versions of Google Earth still work on older computers.

I once had to replace a Radeon graphics card in an old computer. I found a new older Radeon graphics card but the latest drivers would not work. But older drivers were available on the manufacturer’s websit, I could carry on using my computer in the way I wanted and I was not being forced into replacing my computer.

When I bought a new pc with Win7, it was with the knowledge some of my older software and hardware might not work. That was my choice.

But does Microsoft have the right to force you to replace hardware and software that they make unusable?

Does Microsoft have the right to run updates on your computer any time it wants?

Doesn’t anyone have the legal clout to stop Microsoft forcing Win10 on us without our permission?

alfa its way beyond that MS publically said its going to run its own undersea fibre cable from the US to Europe .It takes little thought that this will tie in with the US take-over of Europe under the “secret ” TTIP ” or the even more “secret” CETA which cameron +co . dont want us to talk about because it is the Canadian version of the same thing and America owns Canadian BB . MS is so big that it will be defended by the UK/EU governments to the death. Yes MS has “the rights ” to run updates against your will . Whose going to stop them ?? not any government nor most western websites its just too big to quarrel with . Can you see Which campaigning against it ?? it would be very brave if it did and I wont mention what goes on pressure wise to businesses who make trouble for MS .

I expect we grant these rights to M$ each time we fire up each new instance of Windoze.

I still remember being somewhat miffed when I paid £90 to upgrade from Windows Me (me! me! me!) to XP only to find my Microsoft Gaming Joystick was not supported. [No joy there then 🙁 ]

Anyway, que the “we need a hero” music and bring on Richard Stallman… 🙂

I see Linux can no longer be installed on some Lenova laptops. Full story:

bbc.co.uk / news/ technology – 37431299

Yes Ian because of Raid which has problems in LInux . Raid is the use of two devices to speed up computer systems , it can be used in HDD and video cards ,it is not an essential part of any system. What worries me is Chris Green,s comment at the end — If users want to wipe it and install an OS of their choice , its a casec of “buyer beware ” the CEO of MS couldnt have put it better . Translated= stick to Windows.