This week in comments – light bulbs, laptops and toxic clothes

CFL are efficient when used for long periods, with fewer switch-ons. When used in positions where they switched on for a short period and then off again (e.g. a toilet rather than a bathroom) CFLs use more power, their life is shortened and the energy cost of making the CFL is not regained through efficiency and lifetime. One size does not fit all!

I am looking forward to a suitable LED replacement for my two ordinary light bulbs, fingers crossed my stock will last.

Has anyone worked out if the heat from an incandescent light reduces the heating bill?

When used in positions where they switched on for a short period and then off again (e.g. a toilet rather than a bathroom) CFLs use more power, their life is shortened and the energy cost of making the CFL is not regained through efficiency and lifetime.

I have measured the power consumption using a CFL in a table lamp and it was no higher when first switched on.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, Which? put CFLs through many switching cycles in their tests and this does not seem to cause problems.

The overall environmental costs of manufacture (and disposal) of CFLs is one of my concerns. There is conflicting information from proponents of CFLs and those who are opposed to them. I hope that that proper scientific studies have been carried out since saving power is only part of the environmental considerations.

2. There are signs that manufacturers are being more honest about light output, and not before time.

3. A halogen bulb will do the job.

I’m surprised to find myself disagreeing with Wavechange on this issue and I await with interest a convincing argument (from anyone, not specifically wavechange) that using cfl’s will ever save the consumer any money: the cost of purchase (which is spiralling upwards rapidly), coupled with the cost of replacement far more often than the PR suggests, and added to the potential cost of disposing of them (here that’s £5 whether you take 1 or 100 to the recycling centre) will always massivly exceed the financial saving on electricity. I don’t dispute the reduced energy use, but I cannot fathom the calculations of fiscal savings at all.

I also disagree that Halogen bulbs will do the job in external lights – Halogens are certainly good but are a little more susceptible to early failure than tungsten bulbs when switched on and off many times, especially in very cold environments. Sure it’ll work, but I don’t think it will be particularly reliable.

I did notice that someone on one CFL convo had mentioned timers too: it is true that using a cfl with a security light timer or sensor could easily cause the timer to malfunction or, in an extreme case, over-heat and catch fire. This can be cured by using an old fashioned (cheap) mechanical timer rather than one with an electronic switching circuit, but why on earth should we have to replace timers and sensors just to fit in with an ill thought out ban in incandescent lamps???

I’m afraid that, casandra like, I find myself yet again pointing out that this is another example where “one size does NOT fit all” and we really should be allowed the choice.

However, with apologies for being repetitious again, the thing about the ban on incandescent lamps that really infuriates me beyond words is that only domestic customers are affected: commercial users are to be allowed to continue to have incandescent bulbs (especially coloured ones) for reasons of “commercial viability” (i.e. so as not to affect their profits). If there is to be a ban it should (have) affect(ed) 100% or the world and 100% of user types.

Dave

You are right to suggest using an old-fashioned timer for CFLs. These have a mechanical switch driven by a motor. Many other timers are suitable but until manufacturers put this information on the packaging it’s best not to take the risk. An electronic timer could be wrecked but I would be very surprised if it caught fire.

I completely agree that it makes little sense to have different rules for domestic and commercial users. Many pubs are struggling at the moment and I have notices many more CFLs in pubs in the last year.

I am not aware that halogen bulbs are more susceptible than ordinary incandescent lamps when switched on and off frequently and I do not believe that the ambient temperature is a significant factor.

Free and heavily discounted CFLs seem to have disappeared but there are plenty available for about £2. It’s a long time since I did the calculations and confirmed the savings by carrying out tests, but I am convinced that CFLs offer a worthwhile saving on my electricity bill. Now that electricity prices are rising fast, the savings will be greater.

If councils charge for disposal of CFLs they can expect them to turn up with other rubbish in black bins. If I find out that my council does charge then I will keep them until they are recycled free of charge.

The reason I’m not worried about the demise of incandescent bulbs is that I made the transition to using CFLs long before the traditional bulbs were phased out.

I did use CFLs on basic timers upstairs and down for security in my home. Lucky for me that I was at home when one of these CFLs starting smoking. The toxic smelling odour it gave off alerted me that something was burning. I traced the smell to the living room and then saw the swirling smoke. I went out and bought stock of incandescent bulbs and feel safer. Anybody have any ideas where I can still buy incandescent before the CFLs are forced upon us?

on the other convo this has been posted this evening:
Author: Ian F
Comment:
mechanical switches like relays are fine. So are the mechanical timers that use a microswitch. The problem is with electronic switches which are typically TRIACs: these are fine with the resitive load that an incandescent bulb presents but interact in an insidious way with the electronics within a typical CFL. The combination appears to work but you don’t realise that the electronics inside the CFL are being severely over stressed resulting in an even worse power factor and significant risk of catastrophic failure (fire!).
This is exactly the point I was making in my comment above, although Wavechange disagreed with me.
I’m quite certain that this is an issue that Which? should have investigated very thoroughly and published guidelines and reports on (perhaps they have and I’ve missed them?). This is a big health and safety issue – surely even if Which? insist on supporting CFL’s (and SmartMeters) and are dubious (as, frankly, so am I about other health ill effects) at least they should not be ignoring (or worse still condoning) issues that could so easily result in burning down people’s homes.

Dave – I made a guarded comment to say that I thought it unlikely that an electronic timer would catch fire. The worst that is likely to happen is that the triac or electronic relay short-circuits and the lamp stays on at full brightness. The same would apply in the case of dimmer switches.