Shouldn’t innovation go hand in hand with reliability?

Patrick T raises an interesting question. When Which? test printers they give a rating of ink cost. However, is this taken when the printer says a cartridge is out of ink, or when the warning is ignored and only when printing becomes incomplete? My Canon printers have always carried on printing perfectly for a long time after the ink out warning.

It would be useful to record in their tests the extra % copies that can be made by ignoring the printer when it tells you a cartridge has run out, and whether there were any ill effects.

The complaint should also question why manufacturers (in my case HP) reduce the amount of ink in their same size cartridges.

I have an HP C6180 that takes HP 363 inks. The cartridges now only come with a fraction of the ink they used to hold.

My printer is at least 10 years old now and still prints perfectly well living on expired and run-out ink warnings.

I would like to see cartridge size by contents not how many pages it is supposed to print.

Cartridge ink content is listed on most sellers sites if they give the specification. Which? could see whether these have become shrinking products perhaps? I wonder how many people ever think to look at the volume of ink they are buying? I don’t – but may in future.

I used to buy HP ink but when I learned about cartridges being chipped to discourage users from buying ink elsewhere I decided to try other suppliers. Thank you HP for providing me with inexpensive printers, which work fine with cheap ink from other manufacturers.

@alfa Alfa – Here is an article that suggests that manufacturers have been reducing the ink content of cartridges for a few years.

Oops. Here is the missing link: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/feb/23/printer-ink-cartridges-paying-more-getting-less

We could ask Which? to do two more things when reviewing printers and/or printer inks. To give us the volume of ink per cartridge, and the number of pages each will print before it physically becomes exhausted – not when the printer says its low or empty (if they don’t already do that). I get many more pages after that message appears (and is ignored).

Surely the volume is of secondary importance though – what matters is how many pages it will print.

We don’t see many complaints about the low cost of printers, knowing they are subsidised by the future OEM ink supply. Most can use third party cartridges if we don’t like what the OEM cartidges offer.

I assume that everyone does use their print cartridges until they are exhausted. My HP printers just give me a message informing the user that the ink is low, not that it should be replaced.

It is the number of pages that can be printed that is important, not the amount of ink. Different printers use different amounts of ink keeping their heads clean and continuous printing maximises the page count.

Until 2005 or so, this was usually based on 5% ink coverage per page but there is a standard for inkjet printers, currently ISO/IEC 24711:2015.

I would prefer to pay a realistic price for a printer in return for cheaper manufacturer’s consumables. It seems a more honest way of running a business.

I wonder how many do override their printer when it tells them to replace a cartridge? A Which? Connect survey might tell us. I don’t know. I do know that when I first had a printer I did follow the instruction until I found out the warning about “damage” that might result did not happen if I ignored it.

For those who use a printer only occasionally, as many do I suspect, having a cheap printer is likely to be their best option. If they do then begin to use them more often then 3rd party ink will give them cheaper printing. For many people that seems like a reasonable deal.

I can see a couple of problems:

1. If a printer fails you might find it difficult to get support under the manufacturer’s guarantee or your statutory rights if you have been using third party ink cartridges.

2. As has been discussed at length elsewhere, some manufacturers have used firmware updates to prevent printers working with third party cartridges.

Selling cheap (presumably subsidised) printers encourages the sale of new printers and, in my view, working towards a more sustainable lifestyle is more important than fitting in with the business models of industry.

I’m curious about the possible damage that could occur by exhausting a cartridge. The only warning I have seen is not to leave printers with a cartridge missing because the print head in the machine can dry out. It would be interesting to know if any manufacturer is currently warning users not to exhaust their cartridges. With my younger printer I just get a low ink alert, which I ignore unless planning a long print run, in which case I stop printing as soon as soon as I see that the ink is exhausted.

I’ve only replaced a printer when the previous one has failed, or does not work under the latest OS. I don’t know whether the market is for people to go for newer and better (if they exist) and discard perfectly usable ones

I’ve not used 3rd party cartridges partly because I’ve had excellent results for photos from OEMs and was prepared to pay the price, and partly because my ink needs have not been particularly high.

I see your points and it would be interesting to see whether Which? has current information on people’s buying habits for printers, how many use third party ink, and how many have had guarantee problems as a consequence. I may have missed it if they have published this already.

Thanks for the link wavechange, the article confirms what I already very strongly suspected. My printer has an ink gauge that looks like a bar graph and a new cartridge used to show a tall bar whereas now it is about half the height, so about half the ink.

The ISO standard gets revised every few years, so over time the number of pages printed could change. I rarely print in best quality but I am quite sure I don’t get anywhere near 410 standard pages of plain print out of the smaller black cartridge, or 1120 pages out of the larger size cartridge.

I think quantity is important even if it just to see how we are being ripped off by the printer manufacturers.

I would also like to see realistic prices for printers and lower costs for ink. It cannot be right that a set of inks might cost half if not nearly the same as the cost of a printer.

It would be good to see the statistical data from Which? Connect surveys.

I used to run anonymous surveys to gather information and opinion from hundreds of students. To provide feedback, I published the statistics for the answers to the questions, but not the written comments that might have removed the anonymity. Sometimes feedback can be made use of very promptly and sometimes it takes longer.

It would be interesting to have some up to date information about problems and how many are using third party ink. Maybe Which? Computing has covered this.

Alfa – In order to get the maximum number of pages from a cartridge you need to leave the printer switched on and not just print the a page or two per day.

It’s amazing how much ink can be used by switching printers on and off. Before Christmas a friend bought a small Canon printer. It kept jamming and by the time we had given up after successfully printing only one page the five colour cartridges were less than half-full according to the ink indicator; the large black cartridge fared better.

There is no doubt that inkjet printers have to ‘waste’ some ink to prevent the print heads clogging, but there is no reason why this needs to be done each time a printer is switched on. I sometimes switch my printer off at the socket instead of turning off the shredder and even if it’s off for a couple of seconds I’m sure it wastes ink when turned on.

What really upset me was the Lexmark laser printer I had at work. The three colour toners cost £100 to replace and the larger black toner cost £140. Each one printed a fixed number of pages. I suspect that the used cartridges still contained plenty of toner because most of what I printed did not have large areas of colour.

Malcolm – Can you have a look at your printer manual to see if it does warn about damage by continuing to use cartridges until they are exhausted. I have a manual for a Canon TS5051, which I downloaded for a friend. This provides no warning but says:

“Notes on ink tanks
Important
• If you remove an ink tank, replace it immediately. Do not leave the printer with the ink tank removed.
• Use a new ink tank for replacement. Installing a used ink tank may cause the nozzles to clog. Furthermore, with such an ink tank, the printer will not be able to inform you when to replace the ink tank properly.
• Once an ink tank has been installed, do not remove it from the printer and leave it out in the open. This will cause the ink tank to dry out, and the printer may not operate properly when it is reinstalled. To maintain optimal printing quality, use an ink tank within six months of first use.”

We don’t have an awful lot of printing to do so not sure leaving it on permanently is the best idea. I think it seizes up if left on doing nothing for a long time anyway. So it probably thinks it needs cleaning every time it is switched on.

It doesn’t use as much ink as my previous Canon though. Now that was an ink guzzler and one of the few products I have replaced before the end of its natural life as I got fed up with it running out of ink.

I have some sympathy for the manufacturers because not all users will keep their printers in a cool place to reduce the risk of print head blockages exacerbated by infrequent use. On the other hand, it would be very easy to design printers that used the same amount of ink in head cleaning irrespective of whether or not they are left switched on.

There’s quite a bit about ink, but it does not, as far as I can see, now warn about using “exhausted” cartidges, nor can I see anything about 3rd part inks. The warranty seems to infer their use is acceptable providing the packaging states they are compatible:

Damage caused directly by the use of spare parts, software or consumables (such as ink, paper, toner or batteries), which are not compatible with the product. Compatibility with your specific Canon product should be evidenced on the packaging but is assured when using genuine Canon spare parts, software or consumables as these have been tested. You are advised to check compatibility prior to use.

The manual says:

How is ink used for various purposes other than printing?
Ink may be used for purposes other than printing.
When you use the Canon printer for the first time after you install the bundled ink tanks, the printer consumes a small amount of ink in the amount to enable printing by filling the nozzles of the Print Head with ink. For this reason, the number of sheets that can be printed with the first ink tanks is fewer than the succeeding ink tanks.
The printing costs described in the brochures or websites are based on the consumption data from not the first ink tank /ink cartridge but the succeeding ink tank /ink cartridge.
Ink is sometimes used to maintain the optimal printing quality.
To keep printer’s performance, Canon printer performs cleaning automatically according to its condition. When the printer performs cleaning, a small amount of ink is consumed. In this case, all colors of ink may be consumed.
[Cleaning function]
The cleaning function helps the printer to suck air bubbles or ink itself from the nozzle and thus prevents print quality degradation or nozzle clogging.

Ink tank lamps:
Flashing slowly (at around 3-second intervals)
…… Repeats
The ink is running low. Prepare a new ink tank.
The resulting print quality may not be satisfactory, if printing is continued under this condition.
Flashing fast (at around 1-second intervals)
…… Repeats
– The ink tank is installed in the wrong position.
Or
– The ink has run out.

That seems fair enough. I suspect that the warning you saw related to a much older printer.

Once used the first time, some of the ink will be used to prime the print heads. I don’t know about Canon but with HP printers it is normal to supply smaller cartridges with printers for domestic use and I assume that many users go on to buy the larger (XL) cartridges.

My last printer was a Canon MP600. Windows 10 did for it – a pity because it performed well. Canon said they did not provide drivers and, as it was elderly, I decided to leave it to my old laptop which ran Vista.

My replacement at £50 (less a penny) was a Canon MG5750 and I am very pleased with it. However, it automatically switches off ( I left my MP600 on all the time) but does not seem to spend much time cleaning; often it just gets straight on with the job.

I have two (colour) ink tanks flashing indicating “empty” but I ignore them and it still prints. Mind, if you are doing several prints watch them in case the ink actually does run out.

I had the same problem with an Epson scanner when Apple moved to OSX, a new operating system over 15 years ago. Epson had no intention of providing new drivers for old scanners. Fortunately a software update enabled my to resume using the scanner. I had a similar problem with a laser printer that had cost almost £700. When HP stopped keeping up with OS updates I found that the printer worked fine by selecting a generic printer driver. I might still have been using it if the convenience of wireless printing had not made it redundant. I expect that someone will warn me about a security vulnerability, but being able to print wirelessly from a laptop anywhere in the house is one innovation that has proved very useful.

My first home printer was a 1982 Apple Stylewriter, based on a Canon print engine. It came ‘free’ with my first Mac. It would produce more fonts and font sizes than my office laser printer, quite a change from the dot matrix printer it replaced. One print cartridge – black – and it was easily refilled.

Many people follow an instructions to the letter not knowing anything about the product it’s the only thing they know follow instructions When assembling many things I put them together than read the instructions and sometimes find I have done things an easier simpler way

When all else fails, read the instructions. I’m glad most airline pilots ignore this advice.

Battery technology has not kept up with other technology things that need batteries cars included everything

I have a friend who inherited a dodgy wireless doorbell when she moved home. At best it just stops working and at worst it rings the bell in next house. The houses are not adjacent but separated by two garages.

The main purpose of having an EGR valve on a petrol engine is not to reduce nitrogen oxide and particulate emissions. This article provides an insight: http://articles.sae.org/13530/

Exhaust gas recirculation in engines reduces the combustion temperature, according to what I read. This reduces the combination of nitrogen and oxygen to form NOx. but is mainly used for fuel economy. Both worthwhile.

The article I mentioned explains this in non-technical terms without the hype found on some commercial sites. Whereas recirculation of diesel exhaust can cause all sorts of problems due to the amount of carbon particles, this should not be a problem with petrol engines.

I’m not sure that DAB radios are inherently unreliable. I’m still using a Pure radio that is about 15 years old and another that is not much younger. A lot depends on build quality and luck.

Luck does play a big part in life ! Some have good luck others always bad !