Uni: would you swap in your campus for a computer?

Well your last paragraph says it all . We live in a class society no point in coming out with all those –but we are all equal lines . Oxbridge /Eton and then the rest , amazing that Prince William went to St Andrews probably his father or grandfather had a hand in that he “punted ” Charles up to Scottish schools to “toughen him up ” . Have you looked at the Cabinet makeups recently ? . But getting away from that I entirely agree Erin tried an early (1960,s ) electronics course by mail nothing like being in a class at school.

” So if uni moved away from being on campus to going solely digital, what would we lose? It’s harder to feel engaged when you don’t have to get out of your PJs or out of bed. The feeling of community from study groups at the library or a night out at the union might be lost. We might become even more antisocial stuck behind our screens.”

I found this a mite difficult to swallow.
1. Students already exist in a community
2. Even more anti-social? Being too gregarious seems to be most students problem.
3. ” Harder to feel engaged” That is entirely within your own control. Something necessary when growing to adulthood.

It may be better for society if in fact Universities did become on-line and were used by adults who could relate to real life experience and what is being taught. Other than that they seem, in some cases, to being some expensive further education to load people with debt before they come on to the job market.

Online education is great for those who have no option, either on cost or practicality grounds, and I’m sure for accumulation information and technique they can work well. I assume however they require a good deal of self discipline to work properly.

Campus-based education does impose a discipline, although more relaxed than school, that requires you to stand on your own feet, socially, financially and in attitude to your advancement. It also gives something isolated education cannot, the direct and spontaneous interaction with other people, their views and contributions. A place for both but in my view there is no substitute for “collective” education, not least because learning to interact and mix with other people is an invaluable preparation for a working life.

I wonder how different these Convos would be if we all sat round a table to discuss issues instead of sitting behind our computers?

Many students are effectively studying part time because they are doing paid work during the semester. Their parents may not be aware of this. This has increased greatly since I was a student in the early 70s, when most did little paid work outside the vacations. The introduction of tuition fees has certainly been a driver, but the amount of time available for working with other students (arguable the raison d’être for traditional courses) has been gradually declining over the years. It’s not all bad because doing work greatly improves maturity and interpersonal skills. Even with conventional degrees, universities are making increasing use of web-based systems to support and enhance traditional learning and teaching. I am glad that I had the opportunity to attend university when many students spent a lot of time on campus and also to have had the opportunity to introduce modern methods into my teaching, without significantly decreasing the number of ‘contact hours’, and using computers certainly helped engage with most students.

In my view, the biggest mistake has been to encourage a substantial proportion of school leavers to go to university and to make them pay tuition fees, acclimatising them to living in debt from a young age. I believe that tuition fees should be funded from taxation – as in Scotland – but places awarded to those who have the necessary motivation and ability to benefit from higher education. There are various alternatives to old fashioned entrance exams.

The Open University has survived and is respected and I have no doubt that ‘digital courses’ will make a significant impact. Anyone who would like a taste of online learning can enrol on a short FutureLearn course: https://www.futurelearn.com
I have not done one yet, but have friends who find them more rewarding than sitting in front of the TV.

It was said that education should be “open and free for all”. We’ve scrapped the latter (with students paying outrageous amounts to get them through), so it’s doubly important that we try to maintain the former. People are thinking of ‘students’ in quite black and white terms here – you’re either an 18 year old leaving college or sixth form, or a mature student in your 50s wanting to do something completely different in later life. What about the single mother or father, or the parent of a child with a disability, for instance, who wants to progress in life, who has ambition and wants to succeed (like we’re always told to do)? What about those people out there with a disability who have no alternative but to access education at home? Aren’t they all entitled to some flexibility in the way they learn? University should be flexible to suit individual needs – we are paying a LOT for it after all, and so it should work for us!

I think it’s naive and quite close-minded to think that online courses will attract the laziest in society. It might well be a way to get a degree, but marking criteria, rigorous examinations and testing, and progress reports will still be necessary. It’s hardly an easier ride. In any case, your university experience and your degree is only what you make of it. I guess if you are lazy, you’re doomed to fail either way, regardless of whether you’ve completed your degree online or on campus.

Erin’s experience of US university and then a year at a Welsh university is perhaps a glossier journey than three years studying in Salford or perhaps Lincoln. There are very practical courses and there are ones which are very much theoretical and to talk about the whole spectrum as a whole is perhaps just making for confusion.

I am very conscious that student life now is a mass-market and even training for mundane but important jobs are being called University courses. Arguably what we have seen is the politicians abuse of the term “university” to meet some target. I think it was much more honest when colleges actually were specific about what they trained people for. It only remains for all secondary schools to be called Universities and we will have achieved the nirvana of a fully university trained work force.

That they are over-trained for what jobs are available and in debt is but a minor matter. That of course they bear the stigma of a university training, debts, and a crappy job which they could have started three years earlier must really irritate the sensibilities.

I went to evening classes and studied whilst I worked full-time. I think it is an excellent system and I have a nephew who was sponsored on an engineering course . Making university a default career path is a mistake.
More selection, less places, and tougher courses for those going straight from school. More generous help and training venues in the community so those with the desire can get on with learning.

“I do think it would be interesting to see just how the Convo community might approach discussions differently in person versus via computers.” Erin

Regarding meeting fellow posters I would be delighted as there are intelligent posters making some excellent points. I have no doubt that perhaps more practical actions would result rather than a talking shop from which Which? decides may or may not lead to some action.

I would hugely welcome any meetings. Very possibly uniquely I am in email contact with over one hundred members, however our major concern is the problematic governance of the charity rather than Which? content.

In the last century members did meet up and discuss things. However apart from the AGM , which is very formulaic, and to which only around 100 ordinary members go, there is nothing. There are under 7000 ordinary members left and these are the people nominally who control the direction of the charity which owns Which?.

The roughly 670,000 members associate members who vote for the fraction of Council Trustees who are not co-opted, are not contactable other than if Which? wanted to arrange it. A membership charity so unlike the National Trust where members do have a platform for action.

Which? News today:

“Top student-rated universities revealed for 2016

Read more: http://www.which.co.uk/news/2016/07/top-student-rated-universities-revealed-for-2016-448421/ – Which?

Top sporty universities Top political universities Top creative universities Top universities for nightlife Top universities for student union activities

None of these essential requirements seem as good online. I did wonder where Top educational university might have figured but maybe we aren’t bothered about the academic prowess they might offer? 🙁

I don’t think this is really an “either/or” type question.

If you can attend a course in person – then great.

But distance learning opportunities can allow you to study in parallel with other important activities, not least a “day job”.

Face to face education has its obvious merits. (I’ve just got back home from delivering three days of training in Scotland – I guess those responsible for paying for it acknowledge the value of getting the trainer and trainees into the same room.)

The internet not only enables us to access formal education, as this Convo, but allows almost all of us simply to access immediately information we could otherwise not hope to get. certainly not without a good deal more effort. That is an education in itself. We have a lot to thank the internet for.