Have you installed the NHS COVID-19 app yet?

It seems also to apply to the protect Scotland app. Certainly won’t load on to my otherwise perfectly functional Sony Experia M. Like others, being forced to discard perfectly useable kit in order to support public health is infuriating. It is also infuriating to find Which effectively condoning, rather than loudly opposing, this waste of resources.

I think Which? is in a difficult corner here, because unsupported phones can contain unrepaired security loopholes.

As those can be exploited by hackers to commit fraud, it is risky to use any such devices for applications such as online shopping or banking.

As Which? regularly campaigns in favour of “risk free” online banking, they cannot really then also recommend the use of unsupported devices at the owners’ risk.

Quite. But they could join with other consumer groups to persuade the manufacturers, directly or through (EU) sustainability legislation, to provide a guaranteed period of security support of, say, 6 years – ideally more – from when the phone model was discontinued. That timescale, whatever it is, should be clearly shown when a phone purchase is being considered. Most would be quite unaware of the restricted “safe” life.

@evgeni-hristov It would be interesting to see if, under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, a claim would be valid under the contract condition with the retailer that requires a product to be reasonably “durable”. I’d suggest a 2 year life to end of security updates, such as on some Samsung phones for example, should be considered as clearly lacking durability as they become unfit for purpose – you can’t perform the secure operations, for which they are designed to be used, with confidence . Perhaps someone from Which? Legal could comment.

In the same vein a defect in the OS should be seen as inherent. Therefore, if it is not updated, you should be be able to return it to the retailer for up to 5years for ‘repair’, or pro rata refund. Sellers would soon get fed up with the durability of product being supplied to them if it started to cost.

I don’t think there are any easy choices for fighting back against covid. So if the app can be used by enough people to have some significant effect on the UK R value, then it will be worth it.

For example, R is approximately 1.5 right now. This means that the average infected person is managing to infect 1.5 others. If the app allowed us to reduce that number by 1/3rd, then we would level off the current infection rate.

In practice, I think we are going to need a combination of measures to achieve this, including more lockdown measures.

Peter, GPS is just one of several technologies that phones use to determine their own location. GPS is a power-hungry technology, and most of the time the phone will use another technology such as triangulation via mobile base stations unless a very precise location is needed. Therefore your GPS won’t be on all the time.

Peter, no one needs to spend that much to get an adequate smartphone.

True Derek, but I when I bought my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge, I had no idea it would be unsupported in less than 3½ years.

@alfa, nor when I bought one alfa, just 2 years ago. I have asked (above) whether this loss of security , affecting functions for which phones are normally purchased, counts as lack of “durability “ under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Which? Legal often reply to such questions.

I think the sweet spot for an inexpensive smart phone is about £100, for which you can get something like my Honor 8s.

The ideal price point will depend on exactly what you want to do.

Right now, at least with Android phones, I would avoid anything with less than 2GB ram and less than 32GB of backing store.

Do you have any evidence to support your thought?

It’s food for thought. Its origin has been traced to bats, a delicacy in Asian countries.

We should concentrate on not spreading the virus. So don’t go abroad, wear a mask (and I also use gloves), wash hands, keep clear of people, stop moaning about pubs closing early – you can drink at home – and why risk going to a football match. When Donald has invented a vaccine and it is all over we can get back to life as normal and rebuild the economy. My parents lived through 6 difficult years of war and deprivation; worse than what we are going through, I would suggest.

Agreed, Em.

In 2018–19, there were 2.38 million students studying at UK higher education institutions. There’s bound to be the odd complaint.

There were approximately 50,000 university students in 1945; the numbers rose to around 80,000 by the early 1950’s. Did they complain about rationing and austerity? I expect so.

It doesn’t help when the media are on the side of the poor students. Perhaps they should turn their attention to studying.

I agree, Alfa.

I have tried to give you and others the thumbs up but despite my going out and coming in again the system will not sign me in. My name is at the top of the Conversation entry page but disappears when I go into the comments. Will this ever end?

PS : After posting the above the system signed me in. Coincidence, or what? Thumb duly inserted.

The media seem to be on the side of poor anybody, as long as it can score points off the government. Even Which? (Travel) continually moan about the hard done by foreign holidaymaker. When I was at university my grant (we were lucky in those days) was just enough to get by on with supplementary money from holiday jobs; it didn’t stretch to binges down the pub – perhaps student loans are too high?

As I see it, we still know relatively little about the way to control the virus spreading other than a total lockdown. So we try to balance efforts to get parts of life going back to something more normal but when the spread reacts adversely we need to take instant decisions to counter that in areas we think might be most effective and least damaging. And without the benefit of time to properly investigate. Unfortunately picking on pubs, clubs and bars might be detrimental to those businesses but I do not see them as essential compared to other workplaces where people congregate.

I may be being too kind to those in charge. But I do wish we had more of a national spirit recognising the devastation the virus can cause and a more positive attitude to conquering it, from all the media – print, online and the Today programme.

Still, Donald has shown how quickly we can learn everything there is to know about COVID and how to gain immunity and a full recovery in just 3 days. Who needs doctors?

That’s funny, as soon as heard he had it I predicted he would make a remarkably quick recovery.

I get so fed up with the negativity of the news and media, I just have to stop watching and listening to it.

A friend of mine who has been keeping well away from people had to go into hospital in emergency because of kidney stones and stayed there for three days. He felt unwell after discharge and a test showed he had coronavirus. He has recovered very rapidly. Some people do and others continue to suffer for long after – the so-called ‘long Covid’.

I assume every student has a computer, so why can’t they just stay at home and study online until the virus has run its course? Lectures are easily transmitted via YouTube.

I acknowledge the importance of student social coalescence as an important part of their learning processes, but during these difficult unprecedented times, I would have thought that compromise is also an essential feature that would contribute towards the maturation of all young potential professional academics.

Universities do make use of online resources for teaching, generally via a VLE (virtual learning environment), which offers a variety of tools for teaching, learning and assessment, all password-protected. Before I contributed regularly to Convo I had spent years in online discussion with my students on our VLE.

Now that it looks as if coronavirus will be with us for longer than many had expected I expect that universities will move towards distance teaching, Beryl.

I feel that the prevailing assumption that a fundamental benefit for young people going to university is to assist their integration into society and develop their social skills should not continue to go unchallenged.

I would actually suggest that continued existence in a cocoon of same-age people with similar aptitudes and expectations for three or more years after leaving school is not necessarily a good thing. It could actually r****d their maturity. In any case, it is elitist since many young people never get that chance and there is therefore a prejudicial presumption that they are socially disadvantaged.

I think the experience of starting on the bottom rung of a career is a good way of acquiring the essential life skills and civilised behaviours that society expects. This can be coupled with vocational training and apprenticeships but the discipline and interaction of the world of work exposes young people to more influential aspects of real life, involvement with a wide age range of people of diverse backgrounds, and a useful platform of intelligence that would benefit their future development.

There is a place for higher education and I recommend it for all those who can benefit from it but I see no reason why it could not be deferred for two or three years. This would help ‘late developers’ to participate more easily and it would also mean that the university intake was more resolved and better equipped for the specific courses.

Even for longer periods of higher education for professions like medicine or architecture, for example, a spell on the lower slopes in such a working environment would make attendance at university more efficient and the tuition better focussed.

Note: I cannot believe that a word that means ‘set back’ has to be reduced to asterisks, presumably for fear of offending someone who might not understand alternative [verb form] usage of a meaningful word. We do not use the word in its pejorative sense in the UK.

John – I can only speak about science teaching, where peer support is an important part of the learning process. Students help and encourage each other, so that skills are developed and shared. In some cases this is encouraged by setting group tasks.

Nowadays there are many opportunities for late developers and those who saw earning money or starting a family as a higher priority than higher education. Universities now accommodate many disabilities, dyslexia being one of the most common.

I would like to see more young people take a year or two out of education before deciding whether to go to university or further education, but it becomes increasingly more difficult to get into the discipline of studying.

When a word is replaced by asterisks this is done automatically by a computer that does not understand the context. A simple solution is to replace the word with a synonym – perhaps ‘delay’ would be appropriate.

Thank you, Wavechange. I can fully appreciate those arguments. Given that people will be working to age 67 or 68 in due course, a later start to university would not necessarily be harmful I feel. The early years in a working environment that settles their aspirations could make a positive contribution to their development however. I agree there is possibly a case for different approaches for different disciplines.

I have also been wondering whether we can really afford to have 2.38 million studying at higher education institutions. I recognise that number encompasses three or more intakes. Have any studies been done to ascertain how many graduates are needed to satisfy the country’s needs and in which courses? That would be a simplistic approach and would need some latitude in its application to cope with the unknown elements of future requirements but it might help guide policy.

A classic example of computer ineptitude.

Students brains are still developing during late teens and as Wavechange makes the point, they learn from each other both academically and sociably.

Breaking their dependency on parents can also be a difficult time for some students, but it is a necessary part of their education before embarking on their chosen career in a tough competitive world.

Perhaps Wavechange will comment on whether he experienced any difference in the academic progression of mature, as opposed to less mature students.

Thanks John. I will reply later in The Lobby, having realised that we are supposed to be discussing the NHS Covid-19 app here. Beryl – My limited experience was that mature students were more mature, had more commitment but more commitments outside their course, and academically they were not the high fliers.

Wavechange – I considered substituting a different word for the asterisked one but decided not to because I felt strongly that I should be able to write freely in my own language using correct words with discrete meanings. The English language is extraordinarily rich but so much of our vocabulary is having to be abandoned because of ignorance of usage or the inability of some to discern and discriminate properly. In the end we have to capitulate to this tendency but I wanted to make a stand on this occasion after the unexpected moderation of my comment. I am slightly consoled that it is computer-driven and that no human beings were implicated in this outrage.

I ventured into online discussion in 1995, in the days when not many were using computers and there was a wonderful period before some contributors started to be rude to others and automated computer systems to deal with potentially offensive words arrived. I have not posted on other forums for years so have no idea if these systems have evolved to cope with context better than the system used on Convo. I’m rarely caught out here because I try to beat the system by choosing words that won’t upset the computer. I find the continuing log-in problems more frustrating.

The response was also phrased as a question.

The ‘NHS Covid-19’ app does not work on the iPhone 6, so I suspect you have downloaded the wrong app. I suggest you try again and if that does not work you have free support on a new phone from Apple. Best of luck.