Tackling the Nintendo Switch’s ‘Joy-Con drift’ problem

OK, this might be seen as something of a “first world” problem, but then so too would be many of the issues discussed here.

But as a point of principle, shouldn’t all consumer goods be sufficiently durable, whether or not they are “toys” or serious household appliances?

I’m sure fans of the old Nintendo DS products will be very disappointed by these problems, as I believe the latter were excellent and long lived.

In some ways, this issue reminds me of the old Xbox 360 red ring of death problem, which was a thorn in the side of many consumers.

In my view it is just what priorites there are for Which? to apply its limited resources to. Fires in domestic electrical appliances for example.

@gmartin, that is quite right and I have frequently supported durability, economic repairability and sensible warranties that protect consumers from unacceptable failures. I simply hope more effort will be devoted in this area to essential items first, such as domestic electrical appliances. There is a lot to be done here to prevent consumer detriment.

I support George here. Not only are the consumer issues relevant but if Which? is going to attract younger members and raise their awareness of consumer problems it helps to include topics that will interest them.

”Ever since a report by Kotaku from July 2019 shined a light on the Joy-Con drift issue, Nintendo has changed its policies significantly. The company will now repair drifting Joy-Con controllers for free, even if your controllers are outside the regular warranty.”
https://www.theverge.com/21504741/nintendo-switch-joy-con-drift-problem-explained

If this is correct, is the problem not being addressed?

But how many “dangerous” Indesit et al tumble dryers and Whirlpool washing machines are still out there, unrepaired, and what efforts are being made to establish a good product registration and recall system?

@ gmartin. Yes. But simply calling for a “full product recall” when Which? know there is no adequate mechanism for doing so does not get us far. I believe Which? should be considering just how, for the future, a proper recall system should be established so all affected consumers can be identified and contacted. Suggestions have been made in Convos for a number of years to help Which? If Which? do not think it is their job to make constructive proposals then I would be a very disappointed Member.

One possible explanation of the Nintendo problem is contact wear through prolonged use. I don’t play console games but I imagine many play intensively and very regularly which will no doubt cause wear (and maybe dust ingress, another possible cause). Under those conditions just how long is a controller expected to last in full working order?
Other products fail early, exceptionally, and very little help seems to be directed at them by addressing the “durability” requirement of the Consumer Rights Act. Domestic appliances as an example including some that fail just out of warranty.

@gmartin, how many Whirlpool/Indesit washing machines and tumble dryers have still not been dealt with? Have we made any progress towards a proper system to achieve full product recalls?

Is the OPSS now going to be independent? Will we have a dedicated consumers’ minister?

A key part of improving potentially dangerous appliances could be to revise the international safety standards. Are Which? members of the relevant BSI committees (CPL/61 for example) where they can use their knowledge, test results, suggestions from Members and Convos, to help in improving the standards all manufacturers must observe?

Yes that seems to be the problem.

I would still find devoting more effort, for example, to requiring mobile phone security updates to be provided for a decent amount of time and not cease after 3, or even 2 years would be a far better use of scarce resources. I’d simply suggest that has a far greater priority in economic and sustainable terms than a games console.

The issue with mobile phone security is quite scandelous. Most mobile phones are very functional way after the support ends. Given the massive usage of mobile phones across the world, only supporting them for such a short period is an apalling waste of resources even if they are recycled. More should be done to increase their usability over a much longer period and Which should start to address this by highligting the length of support as a major element of the overall scoring for phones.

Indeed, as some have commented recently.
If Which? feel that campaigning about a games console controller is worth their time and effort I would have hoped they would put equal resources into campaigning for mobile phones to be supported for much longer than many currently are. I would hazard a guess that there are far more mobile phone users who would benefit than console users.

I imagine that some of the Nintendo controllers are left kicking about on the carpet by younger users or they are handled when eating crisps etc. Hopefully having to remove dirt and debris will help avoid the problem in the future. Maybe Nintendo can learn from other manufacturers of similar products and as I suggested, provide their own videos on maintenance. I agree with what you say about selling replacement controllers, Patrick.

I’m not sure about Which? providing this sort of video. Although they have some excellent videos on product features it takes technical expertise to provide or even recommend videos. Some years ago I asked for a video on wiring a plug to be removed because it did not emphasise the need to leave slack in the earth conductor or the importance of correct positioning of the strain relief clamp.

You are right about lint escaping into the body of dryers but this is not restricted to Whirlpool models. The sooner that standard condenser and vented models are phased out and replaced with safer heat pump dryers (which don’t have a high temperature heater) the better. I’m happy to discuss this further in an appropriate Convo.

True, Michael – but reality is that many people discard broken or unwanted kit directly into the refuse bin for a variety of reasons – (a) they want to get rid of it in a way that ensures no one else can get access to it or extract data from it, and refuse disposal is generally the most direct way, whether for landfill or incineration, involving no human interface, (b) they are not aware of proper disposal points, (c) they don’t realise there are legal requirements on disposal, (d) they are a long way from a civic amenity site, or (d) their local authority does not provide a separate kerbside collection facility.

Even retailers of new products do not take back replaced electrical and electronic items when selling new ones; they refer customers to their local authority recycling facilities or industry schemes.

Just as landfill disposal causes environmental harm, incineration is not good either since burning will release toxic gases which cannot always be scrubbed before discharge and it also results in the destruction of rare minerals that could be recovered through reprocessing. If the incinerator ash and other residues is then pulverised for reforming into construction materials, the mix of metals, plastics, chemicals and general s**g will be a environmental time bomb and could also leach into groundwater .

Norwich City Council provides a free weekly disposal service for small electrical and electronic apparatus, batteries, etc, alongside the regular recycling or refuse collections. The householder just has to put the item in a carrier bag and leave it next to their bin on collection day. Textiles and shoes can also be disposed of every week in the same way but few people seem to use the facility. I think there is a sense of finality about putting things in the refuse bin which people prefer. If non-putrescible waste was only collected once a month there might be a change of outlook, more people would use their kitchen caddies, and less recyclable or reusable material would go to landfill or incineration. Unfortunately, not all local authorities provide a wide range of disposal services and facilities nor do they standardise on bin-types/colours and operational requirements.

Retailers do have responsibilities to take back waste electrical ans electronic equipment.
https://www.gov.uk/electricalwaste-producer-supplier-responsibilities/take-back-waste-in-store

Until recently the Distributor Takeback Scheme allowed retailers to pay a small amount to avoid their responsibility for taking back electronic waste.

“If your business sells £100,000 or more of EEE per year and has physical stores, you cannot use the DTS after 31 December 2020. You’ll need to take back waste in store or set up an alternative collection point instead.”

Thanks, Wavechange. I hadn’t realised that the the law had changed a few weeks ago. Of course, this won’t trouble Amazon and e-Bay and many other on-line sellers which have no physical stores and where most electrical goods are purchased nowadays. Not having traded with Currys PC World for many years I don’t know what arrangements they now make.

Like many people I have a box full of small waste electrical and electronic equipment, cables and chargers, obsolete phones, cameras, keyboards, mice, transistor radios, speakers, and other small gear. I suppose a trip to the tip is required as soon as conditions permit; at least there they sort and recycle or reuse the goods received [at least . . . they say they do].

I notice that, in my previous comment here, a perfectly correct industrial term for the waste arising from metal processing has been given the double asterisk treatment, presumably because the moderation process cannot distinguish one context from another. I am not happy that Which? might think that I would resort to using offensive slang in a Conversation contribution, or that I don’t know the rules of English grammar and when to use the indefinite article.

Here’s a relevant article, John: https://resource.co/article/large-retailers-will-have-offer-store-weee-take-back-2021 Under the DTS scheme that has been in operation most of our physical retailers have been paying a token amount to avoid having to collect and dispose of electronic waste. The article mentions that online marketplaces are evading their responsibilities. If we cannot get them to ensure that what they sell complies with safety regulations I don’t see much chance of them taking responsibility for waste. Perhaps the answer is to increase tax on new products and encourage the public to dispose of waste responsibly. What Norwich City Council is doing seems like an example of good practice.

” ………in my previous comment here, a perfectly correct industrial term for the waste arising from metal processing has been given the double asterisk treatment, presumably because the moderation process cannot distinguish one context from another………. ”
John, perhaps AI is being applied. I think some humans may suffer from this, and a lack of the ability to apply
” judgement
/ˈdʒʌdʒm(ə)nt/
noun
1.
the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.
“an error of judgement” ”
I hope we don’t lose you ☹️

Thanks, Malcolm. No, I intend to persevere on this site but I am seriously considering ending my subscription to Which? after over fifty years because it no longer gives much satisfaction.

The censoring of certain words is done automatically on this and other sites. If you are logged-in you have 30 minutes in which to replace the offending word with an alternative.

It is the judgement of “offending” that is the problem. Why should anyone be denied using perfectly normal words just because some AI police have no capacity to exercise judgement? If moderators can step in to remonstrate with a contributor they can surely use their same powers to deal with words. I had to turn the stop c**k off the other day because I had a mains water leak.
See – silly, isn’t it.

It would help if the asterisks appeared as we wrote rather than when the comment is posted. I missed the deadline for editing otherwise I might have sought a different but less precise word like ‘scrap’ [let’s see how that goes down].

Did you have to dip into your water butt, Malcolm?

I expect that moderators have better things to do with their time. Just change the word to stopcock and it will not be picked up by the computer.

John – The asterisks cannot appear as you type because the text is still on your computer.

They have time to deal with jokes. The word I used, simply as an example, has a number of applications, from describing a male bird to setting a gun. Many other words have similar perfectly useful meanings. I have no intention of treading on eggshells.

I don’t know whether we expect all films, tv and radio programmes, newspapers and magazines to asterisk all words that someone could contrive to be “offensive”. The language used there far exceeds anything seen in Which?Convos. Why are they singled out?

It is nonsense when a very small minority try to impose their views on the rest.

John, perhaps you could find a setting on your computer that would asterisk words as you type, like a predictive text option. Personally, I wouldn’t bother. I’ve no intention of being told what language I can, and cannot, use by a mindless system.

Wavechange says that perhaps the moderators have better things to do with their time. I’m not sure what Which? does with its time. 19 days ago I asked a straightforward question of Which? through their messaging site, and got an acknowledgement that they hoped to reply within 3 days. Still waiting, despite messaging a reminder. I would have thought after 12 months of adapting working methods to Covid and, as far as I know, not significantly reducing the workforce, the courtesy of a reply would be still thought appropriate.

We have often been told that Which? staff read all the comments coming into Which? Conversation. I have always considered that to be an incredible claim but that, presumably, is their job.

I don’t expect Which? staff to log onto Which? Conversation after they get home from work each day as other contributors do – after all it’s not their hobby as this is for a number of us – nevertheless I am a bit surprised by their overall lack of interest.

It was suggested above that moderators have better things to do with their time than put the *** words right when the unintelligent word checker comes up with a silly result. This does not happen very often so would take up very little of their time to deal with.

Do they read every comment? Some of us do and it does not take much time – normally there are not that many. I hope they do to keep Which? informed.

However, do we think that when a comment is directly addressed to them, using their @name, a good use of the moderators’ time would be to ensure it is replied to?

I agree, Malcolm. I feel that if there were better engagement and follow-up by topic authors and/or editors there would be fewer of these time-consuming complaints and unproductive comments.