What do you think the future holds for consumers?

You have said things that I would have said or already have said you beat m this time Duncan but of nobody will take any notice of anything you are saying they are too busy following the flock like sheep as you say Advertising runs many peoples lives not mine I add

We seem to have similar views on some subjects Bishbut but even your “internal thinking ” is like mine . I just cant understand why very intelligent people are influenced by advertising . Its like a “mental collective ” as the Hippies would say . It seems to point to a bigger “whole ” in the sense of Universal thinking that instead of being directed towards good and a better world is directed towards commercial enterprise. Nobody can surpass the Americans for it they are the true masters of advertising and propaganda , much as I hate it , I have to admire their ability to do it. If the products were truly good it would not be so bad but profit drives the industry – import cheap -sell dear ( in relation to what they paid for it ). China is starting to wake up to this and its reputation and has said it will force an improvement in the quality of its exports . meanwhile the petro-Yuan is emerging much to the horror of the US+ the City. Time we had our own industrial base .

As Duncan said:”This is an all-encompassing issue and sadly does not depend on the UK but on the outcome of globalization and America + China . ” India, SE Asia, Africa and South America will also play their part.

In a world dominated by e-commerce, the UK is likely to become an unimportant backwater as far as consumer protection is concerned, but nonetheless a useful market where the like of Amazon, Apple, Google (and so on) score useful marginal improvements to their world sales figures.

Amazon could yet over reach themselves or somebody might launch something better/worse. I remember a time when it looked as if Tesco were going to take over the world but they’re not looking so healthy now.

ethicalconsumer.org/boycotts.aspx

I don’t like Amazon either. I cannot really explain why – but I certainly go out of my way to avoid doing business via them if I can.

Amazon are my vendor of last resort. I only buy from them if I can’t get what I want anywhere else. I’d rather go somewhere else and pay more for it than use Amazon and I know many people who feel the same.

It needs a very convincing and publicly made case to even begin a boycott . Most people simply will not care and will use Amazon for their personal gain – convenience and cheap prices.

The above (old) boycott relates to tax; it is up to government to lay down tax rules and then see they are enforced. Tax avoidance is something many do – do you have an ISA? Why expect Amazon to make a voluntary contribution?

I am no supporter of Amazon – I worry about their dominance – but they generate employment and thus income tax and NI. I would be more enthusiastic if we tackled their sale of dangerous products and those that do not meet legal safety regulations.

I don’t look forward to a world dominated by a few retailers. Look at the mobile networks, where there is so little consumer choice. At least we have smaller companies, but they have to use the networks provided by the large companies so they cannot operate independently.

Not just retailers, but manufacturers. Our insatiable wish to own more “things” at cheaper prices forces manufacturers to produce in higher and higher volumes, and thus reduces the number of producers to those capable of innovating and investing in the resources needed . It is inevitable. It is driven by consumers, and always has been. We need to consider ways of dealing with such change, as we will not turn the clock back. One way will be to reassess our personal needs to own more and more “stuff”.

Why do we buy so many clothes, gadgets, replace furniture, cars, domestic appliances……..Maybe we could buy what we need, not what we want, and clamour for products that last – that are durable and repairable. Part of the solution lies in our own hands and habits.

My concern is more in our dependence upon global technology that plays the major part in keeping things running. If it were disrupted we would be in chaos. As would also happen due to our increasingly planned total dependence upon electricity. If we phase out solid fuel and gas we will become dependent upon electricity for heating and cooking. If we abandon fossil-fuels for personal transport we will be totally reliant upon electricity for our cars. Should the supply fail, or be disrupted, where will that leave us? We need to put precautions in place to deal with this. Amazon will pale into insignificance as a problem.

Perhaps you have missed the recent information on the facilitating of tax dodging by eBay and Amazon which is understated at £1.5bn a year.

Seems laughable that the consumer magazine essentially saying we have an underfunded care system is unable to print anything about loss of tax revenue.

I am beginning seriously believe that theRegister is a better source of information.

” Dishman said Amazon is actively going through their list of sellers to request VAT numbers. He said about 67 per cent of revenue from non-EU sellers is attributed to VAT numbers – but added that doesn’t necessarily imply 33 per cent are non-compliant.

He said the company had been sharing its data with HMRC. However, Jon Thompson, the head of HMRC, said Amazon was not providing “complete transparency” on the foreign retailers that were using its site.

The Register has previously reported on the seemingly growing number of sellers based outside Europe who hold stock in the UK, but sell goods online without having a registered VAT number.

One small business owner, who asked not to be named, said the practice had undercut his business for consecutive years to the point where he no longer employs staff.

Two years ago, a Register analysis revealed iPad sellers based outside the UK are selling cut-price fondleslabs in Blighty after seemingly bypassing UK VAT payments”
The Register
theregister.co.uk/2017/09/14/mps_accuse_amazon_and_ebay_of_profiteering_from_vat_fraudsters/

Soory Alsistair not to have responded last month but the run up to the Consumers’ Association AGM and working on two houses was very hectic.

The AGM was interesting and I was disappointed in discussions with the Which?/CA staff that the subject of “fleecehold” and shoddy buildings was subservient to an impending work on rental. Personally I think this is wrong as people’s lives are being ruined and Which? has said nothing regarding the major builders.

As researchers are no doubt aware or should be aware there is already an awful lot of change going on in the rental arena which should be beneficial to renters. Perhaps a straightforward summary of all the current changes and the ones on the horizon would be sufficient.

” Signs of this future today ”

Yes the age old mistake of extrapolating current trends into the future. Shouldn’t the price of oil continued to skyrocket as it became more scarce? Something has to be done about home ownership, without first time buyers the whole housing market will seize up. Maybe a future socialist government will nationalise housebuilding and fulfil the numerous promises we’ve had since 1945 or maybe the Chinese will start shipping them here in flatpacks. Who knows.

You got that last sentence – right on the money Beryl. This country better prepare for very hard times.

” first the government need to impose more regulation on unions to prevent the continuous disruption caused by walk outs and strikes that stop people getting to their place of work.”

I rate health and safety as quite important aspects of any transport system and the removal of any aspect on cost grounds needs to be examined with extreme care. Capitalists being notoriously keen to over state benefits and understate risks.

Can I interest anyone in some leaded petrol?

What unions Patrick after Maggie they were decimated ? you are bringing up actions that took place decades ago .. Whats left of British “industry ” – not a lot – UK service industry, can you see MacDonald,s walking out and leaving you short of a big mac ?

Post Maggie, trade unions still exist but focus more on the defence of their members’ interests.

I doubt that many employees of McDonalds can afford to belong to trade unions. Beside, in a few years time, their current crop of sales robots will have been supplemented by a further team of kitchen robots, so they’ll be hardly any humans employed there.

As “striking workers ” has been brought up – Guardian article- Italy -exploitation -Mutti+Conserve Italia- tinned tomatoes- sold by major uk company. A worker died due to lack of medical attention -workers day -4am to 5pm -no breaks – intense heat- in the fields at Nardo- 7 days a week-no provisions for medical care- heart attack-minimal wages. Prosecution now taking place for manslaughter far-right Capitalism at work -coming to Britain soon- enjoy your Italian tomatoes .

You , me and Eeyore : ) I do agree.

“Eeyore, what are you doing there?” said Rabbit.
“I’ll give you three guesses, Rabbit. Digging holes in the ground? Wrong. Leaping from branch to branch of a young oak tree? Wrong. Waiting for somebody to help me out of the river? Right. Give Rabbit time, and he’ll always get the answer.”
“But, Eeyore,” said Pooh in distress, “what can we – I mean, how shall we – do you think if we -”
“Yes,” said Eeyore. “One of those would be just the thing. Thank you, Pooh.”

Maybe it’s time for consumers to reject consumerism and move to a more sustainable lifestyle. Vynor mentions an ever increasing travel need, but perhaps we can reject that too.

In my parent’s generation it was quite normal for one parent to work and the other to be at home for the kids, but that was before consumerism set in and made us work harder so we could spend more.

it is up to individuals to decide how to lead their lives. If they cannot see the point in saving and want all the gadgets, fun and holidays now, then they can so choose. But then they cannot complain when they are unable to buy a house or some of the more important things in life. Many do have the attitude that working hard, saving, doing without some of life’s short-lived pleasures, is a better way for them. We can give guidance, we can warn of consequences, but maybe we are wrong and they are right?

It’s interesting to see how siblings differ in behaviour. Some are much more wasteful than others.

Best not to live next to anyone called Jones.

What we call “wasteful” might not be so to them, of course. It depends upon their own view of life, risks they want to take, and how they might see the future. I have always been “prudent” in my spending, having come from a background where not much money was available for more than the decent basics. But no family car, fridge, phone……So I learnt the “value of money”. However I missed out on some of the more entertaining things available by being over cautious. I’m trying to make up for that now 🙂

Wavechange, be careful what you wish for! They are closer than you think!

Malcolm, It’s not so much a question of whose wrong or whose right but more about letting go after all your guidance and being there for them if they return ‘cap in hand’.

As I said, Beryl. 🙂 We all have different needs and attitudes. I have given guidance to my children on the ways I think might help them, but not instructions. They can then make their own minds up. They now give me help and advice and I am quite comfortable asking for their views. From time time time we need each other’s help.

I agree with malcolm on this . Each of us is an individual with their own likes and dislikes . You are born into this life with a personality as you learn by pain, in the sense of walking/talking/ being hurt /going to school /to work /etc this molds that personality into a set of life values that are the basis for judging others . But too much judgment also causes problems as some rebel against it and set their own values . When those values exceed the norm they can lead to imprisonment or death. Its all about learning morally, physically/ spiritually . It matters not that children in the same family are different , thats normal , even twins don’t always agree . Its really two things -can you improve the existence of fellow human beings and can you improve yourself ? . There will always be evil in the world its just understanding it and seeing it for what it is under many disguises . We should never forget , in this life we are only a organic body that ages and dies , we are really no better than any other animal in that sense , even a mother animal will love and protect her young . Its our spirit that is learning not our body and thinking the only legacy we leave is our offspring devalues what we really are. a Creature of the Universe , of the spirit

I think we all agree with Malcolm we all have different needs and attitudes but we also need to agree that we need to get back to what the future holds for consumers.

Don’t forget the clocks 🙂

Hello jae, I agree with all you say, as my post Today @ 12.49, penultimate paragraph makes the point:

“Private landlords need to be better regulated with more people forced to rent instead of buy and for those whose homes will be repossessed.”

I do sympathise with your plight, but suffice to say we have much more in common than you realise.

I should have added the article is 6000 plus words but is heavily loaded with information. This quote perhaps should be considered.

” Far from slowing down, progress in artificial intelligence is now outstripping even the wildest hopes of the most dedicated AI cheerleaders. Unfortunately, for those of us worried about robots taking away our jobs, these advances mean that mass unemployment is a lot closer than we feared—so close, in fact, that it may be starting already. But you’d never know that from the virtual silence about solutions in policy and political circles.

I’m hardly alone in thinking we’re on the verge of an AI Revolution. Many who work in the software industry—people like Bill Gates and Elon Musk—have been sounding the alarm for years. But their concerns are largely ignored by policymakers and, until recently, often ridiculed by writers tasked with interpreting technology or economics. “

But I doubt it’s factually accurate. When it states “Far from slowing down, progress in artificial intelligence is now outstripping even the wildest hopes of the most dedicated AI cheerleaders.” I’d like to know the evidence that’s based on. Frankly, from my own investigation, I’d have said we were still at least 40 years away from Android creation, and even a real AI system. There are lots of cunning algorithms that can mimic AI, and processor speeds continue to increase but the harsh reality is that AI won’t appear anytime soon – at least, not in the guise which most believe it might.

At the moment we’ve reached the stage where it can be taught to Fetch! and Sit! on command and even the stage where, with sufficient power, it can win in Chess and Go. But to become a true AI it has to be able to do a great deal more which, since so much of what humans do and how they behave is based on ethical positions, is extremely unlikely at this stage.

The MoJo article is slim on definitions, too; because if we take the initial paragraph alone as setting out the stall, as it were, then it’s perhaps worth reflecting that exactly the same thing could have been written in 1890. Robots did take a lot of jobs – such as dishwashing, clothes cleaning, grass cutting and more, and it’s only logical to expect that the trend – which has been moving along healthily since 1890 – will continue, so that’s not really news.

But the MoJo article – for me, anyway – makes a massive and unsubstantiated leap when it refers casually to Doctors being replaced. Or teachers. Or Social Workers. For any of those to go we’re going to need a truly Asimovian leap in ethical subroutineing, and that’s nowhere near being developed.

So while maintaining the garden might be doable by a robot in around 10 years time, don’t expect the children to be taught by an obliging nanny android anytime soon.

Perhaps I should change the locks….

Amazon and all delivery firms they use ?

🚪 Ha Ha, I was waiting for him to get knocked out by the door. 😄