How safe do you feel using free wi-fi hotspots?

Thanks Duncan, but it does not inspire me with much confidence. Thinking just about free WiFi services I think my approach of avoiding using them is the best one for me. Most friends have home WiFi that I can use and tethering works in more locations than it did years ago. I was signed up for a couple of popular free WiFi services but one started sending me junk email so I terminated the account and had no further problem.

I might ask what former colleagues at work use on their Macs.

NFH the public wi-fi network is constantly being hacked , even your computer wi-fi is not guaranteed safe , especially with the IoT being heavily advertised to the public in which all kinds of remote cameras/ baby alarms/ garage door cameras / “talking ” toys / etc are being hacked constantly . Thats over and besides data gatherers and those hackers taking over control of your computer . The so called “protection” over the IoT is very bad , all I am doing is pointing out reality as many posters come here wondering why so much private data is known about them and many sad stories of key loggers getting their bank details and removing large amounts . It a lot easier to hack a wi-fi network than it is a LAN cable , most people allow remote access to their computers for social purposes , thats a start to easy access , I have that blocked . Even young people hack your wi-fi bandwidth and I can access , if I wanted to , apps that would not only allow me to “sniff ” other networks but to HACK them and can be available on the ordinary web not the “dark web “.

I remember when I was still at school being able to go to the local library and look up everyone who lived in my road, find their telephone numbers, check the rateable value and see how much in rates they paid on their house – but that was about it, and those opportunities are now closed to the law-abiding citizen. And the other big difference is that there was not much I could do with the information, and certainly not find out how much they had in the bank. Today we are all extremely exposed and, although I do not subscribe to all the dire warnings, hacking does happen and in the data trawl ordinary people get their personal information sold to fraudsters. I have never used free wi-fi and would not do so unless it was really necessary; it seems to me to be too easy a place for criminals to start – although the pickings might not be worth the effort.

Dire warnings could be counterproductive but this Conversation and maybe an accompanying article in the magazine could help people to realise that there are risks from using free WiFi services. There is now little incentive for me to use free WiFi when my laptop is already registered to access routers belonging to friends and family that I visit and that mobile network coverage has improved and allows me to tether to my own phone. Anything to do with banking is still done at home.

It is easy to see what others pay in council tax since the charge bands are published online, and so is the band for each property, at leasts in England. With the move to mobile phones and ex-directory landlines, phone numbers are less accessible but other residential phone numbers can easily be looked up.

I dont believe in waiting till after it happens the public should be kept informed as witnessed by the 100,s of posts in each convo relating to this issue , do you wait till that roof leak becomes a flood, or that rattle in the engine blows up on the motorway ? Its government and Google/Amazon/ etc policy to tell the public -get on the internet —its “”safe ” like hell it is ! I did like John,s comment –to law abiding citizens -that shows you the morality – of Google etc who have so much data that the NSA/CIA use it and have built a new super fast computer to store the fabled but real – Big Data . Its one thing backing government propaganda which aims to increase profit for businesses , its another when the WWW is filled with people complaining of being hacked . I told you both governments cant cope with all the hackers and are recruiting them but obviously not believed.

So what’s your solution, Duncan? Close down the free wi-fi services? If people stop using them that will happen anyway I suppose.

It has been no secret that GCHQ is recruiting people who have experience on the darker side of the web. It’s entirely believable and an obvious place to look for surveillance experts and interceptors and it has been extensively covered in the press.

John-The least you can morally do is keep people informed even if most ignore you , one or two might take note and thats one or two less people who could be hacked.

Absolutely, Duncan. I sometimes fear the message does not reach many people but perhaps they just don’t want to hear it.

In the scale of hacking sources, where does free wi-fi stand? Direct hacking of people’s accounts appears to be No.1. Insider hacking must be a high scorer. I don’t know enough about this to identify other hacking origins so free wi-fi could be a biggie.

Every new train and many older ones now come with free wi-fi as a government directive. Are travellers being placed in jeopardy by the government in promoting this use for idle brains and hands?

I occasionally used free WiFi until about three years ago. I think it was a combination of reading terms and conditions and receiving a few unwanted emails that put me off, but it’s possible that security concerns was another factor. Perhaps the last time I used free WiFi was on a very long train journey and it was only free for 15 minutes. After that I just used mobile broadband. I now see free WiFi as a small risk and not one I need to take.

Many rejected advice to install antivirus software on their computers years ago, but eventually complied. Sadly some waited until it was too late.

It’s difficult to quantify the risk of using free WiFi because that will depend on what it is being used for and the nature of the service offered.

Wavechange, believe it or not you can hack train wi-fi to get it free and its well publicised on the web.

I thought it was free on the train, as it is on the buses in my area. This is what puts more people at risk [if there is a serious risk].

I don’t doubt that but I will just continue to use mobile broadband when I can get a signal.

I would prefer to have a link to British experience on trains if possible, Duncan.

I don’t really know, Duncan. I can see that the convenience of advance technology is going to be offset by security concerns in future. In the days of the transistor radio, pocket calculator and home computer I was an early adopter. Now I am not, for a variety of reasons and security is in there.

As a matter of interest, what is the source of that information, Duncan?

I don’t have a problem with it and most people have probably realised for some time that the security services have these resources. Those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear, and the notion that the police are going to make a list of everyone protesting about something or other is fanciful in my opinion.

Are you having a problem with your single apostrophe key? It’s being replaced by other symbols. Are you using the same key that has ‘@’ on it but without the shift? I have noticed for some time that you usually use a comma instead of an apostrophe for abbreviations and in the possessive sense.

You might not believe me John but am a member of a USA civil rights organization I had the choice of USA info or British so they send me British info, again its info I cant easily get in this country for some reason. The reason for the “gobbledygook ” is I transfer it wholesale from one browser to another then the whole lot gets posted here, I think it’s their way of showing they control the copyright. Try this source, John https://thebristolcable.org/2016/10/imsi/

But what’s the problem? I suppose if I’m talking to Ivan about smuggling the new codes for the palm-sized fusion reactor he’s selling me then there might be a problem. But otherwise my whereabouts are no secret, and I don’t care if anyone listens into my (comparatively few) ‘phone calls, except before Christmas,when I’m buying pressies.

And frankly, my credit card history says a lot more about me than any mobile ‘phone call possibly could. Should we all give up using them?

I don’t know why some groups and individuals make out it’s so clandestine and that they’ve opened the lid on something frightful. So long as we have had security services we have had espionage, wire taps, surveillance, tracking, listening devices, and intercepts, The difference today is that we no longer need to have rooms full of spooks sorting it all out, taking it to pieces, and reassembling it in a card index. They can run it through a big computer and correlate it with all the other indices from DWP and HMRC to Ladbroke’s and Coral’s. It’s not what you gather but how you use it that’s important. I don’t think many people are getting the knock in the night despite the consternation.

They are in America John ,using AI to make judgement s has resulted in police “killings ” of innocent people , homes raided at 2.30am including the wrong homes due to computer data .

And it’s been happening here for as long as I can remember. No need for AI to manage that one…

Yes, Duncan; I am sure things are dreadful in America, but that isn’t the situation here so I am not going to worry about it.

You should John, everything that the US does “migrates ” over here, for those that think I am lying I could make them very embarrassed by posting actual-real American news items but it would take many web-pages to do it.

I don’t suppose anyone thinks you are lying, Duncan. We know how awful things can be in the USA. Did you see the programme on BBC2 with Ed Balls witnessing and reporting on Donald Trump’s America? Luckily, not everything that America does migrates over here. Now that we have stopped idolising all things American its influence has declined considerably. Recently, some of the really bad things have come from Russia. Take out the language, some shared history, and a diminishing amount of shared ancestry, and the USA and the UK don’t have that much in common actually.

Of course, if you wanted to establish the veracity of what you’re saying. Duncan, you don’t need to start “posting actual-real American news items”, simply the links…

I am waiting for a link myself Ian .

Thank you for that, Duncan. It’s very interesting. It does not reveal how many hacking attempts on passengers’ data have occurred but the fact that it is possible because of inadequate protection from other channels is worrying; I hope the train operating companies and Network Rail are getting on top of this. Warnings in the carriages about the risks of using on-board Wi-Fi might be a good idea.

What is rather more disturbing to read in that document is that it is technically possible for an external agent to interfere with the digital train control system and the ‘driver to central control’ communications network because they are not sufficiently isolated from other data channels nor adequately protected from interference. Since the UK network still runs on static signalling there is time to get this right but there is a growing amount of automatic route setting, electronic train control, train system monitoring, and track condition surveying carried out by regular service trains that rely on secure radio and other telecoms links so any compromise to the fidelity of the systems must be prevented. Luckily for most safety-critical applications there are three data paths and at least two must be in concordance to execute a command. The digital railway is only a year or so away now and trials are already taking place.

You can get Vaseline for your “hacks ” Derek.

Good advice.