Consumer Rights Act – will you exercise your new rights?

I agree. All we would need to do is recycle the best of the comments from existing Convos. 🙂 Please could we include a whinge about the cost of sat nav updates. At least we have moved forward here and some come with ‘free’ map updates.

I have asked the same question John. Many of these Convos seem to be just talking shops. many raise constructive suggestions, points of law, request relevant information, but no action results.

My tack is, when I feel strongly about something, have what I feel is useful information or proposals, have an important question I’d like answered, I contact an organisation directly that can address it. That may be Which?, Ofgem, M&S, BSI, FSA for example and it usually produces an informative and constructive response. I usually report back.

However I would have hoped Which? would take Convo points made on board and present these on our behalf – as they say, they want to make us as powerful as the organisations we deal with.

Like malcolm I am a creature of action , while its fine to discuss, debate, solve, come to a combined conclusion at the end of the day if the opposing army lobs a missile at you you either get wiped out or take—action.

I have generally been successful in in claims over faulty goods although it has sometimes involved considerable effort. Unfortunately I have had some very unhelpful correspondence with some companies and trade bodies. I don’t generally post responses I have received unless I know that they are standard communications like the contents of the letters about the VW emissions problem. Indeed, some of the correspondence makes it clear that it is for use only by the recipient.

There can be a big difference between receiving an encouraging response and action being taken.

John – Was it you that posted about your car problems a couple of years ago? If not, there is a similar case in one of the Conversations.

There does seem to be an implied contract in the wording “Up to two years free warranty when registered with Humax, giving you confidence in the quality of build and technology, with no repair costs should your product go faulty in the first two years of use.” The manufacturer has made an offer and the purchaser has formally accepted it by registering their interest.

My view also is that if Currys PC World don’t understand the manufacturer’s undertakings to purchasers of their products, or are disobliging about implementing them, then they should not be selling the products.

Thanks John. It does seem clear but the person I spoke to on the phone and the two in the store argued otherwise, and somewhat undermined my self-confidence.

I do look for products with longer guarantees and encourage others to do the same. In my experience, shops are usually very obliging when products are under guarantee, but I have had little experience with of making a claim after the first year, other than when my only protection is the Consumer Rights Act.

I am reluctant to buy from Currys because of problems with their customer service in the past. It concerns me that the leaflet accompanying purchases states: “Most of our products have at least a one year guarantee, and if your product develops a fault during this time, we can help you get a resolution. Sometimes we’ll refer you to the manufacturer or a repair agent instead. That’s because they’re best placed to help you with your query.” I see it as the responsibility of the retailer to sort out problems and pay carriage costs.

If I have to, I will subscribe to the Which? Legal service, but I do like to be self-sufficient if I can.

@ldeitz Hi Lauren – I have posted quotations from the Currys leaflet on several occasions but am still hoping that Which? would let us know whether it is legal to delegate their responsibility to the manufacturer or repair agent.

Wavechange-Basically a Contract of Sale has taken place between the seller and buyer and in English contract law the seller is your first port of call not the manufacturer no matter what the seller says as that contract has a higher legal standing than referring a buyer to a manufacturer . Unless the seller is a contracted AGENT of the manufacturer then its the sellers first legal responsibility. This has already been through High Courts .

More to the point, it is enshrined in the Consumer Rights Act which over-rides previous court rulings and indisputably establishes the legal responsibility of the seller.

Thanks both. Having survived the first three rounds of polite discussion with staff at Currys I was in need of a confidence boost. The key issue seems to be that I have registered the product with Humax to gain cover for an extra year and Currys reckon they have no responsibility during this period.

Then in all fairness Currys should get that in writing from the manufacturers and present it to you. Personally, I think they are wrong [and they have a track record on customer rights and warranties].

Fifteen or more years ago, Currys refused to let me leave my Miele vacuum cleaner at their store, or even record the faults. I had purchased it only a few months earlier. Miele did send out two parts without asking to see the machine or to have the faulty ones returned.

I would really like to use shops like Currys where it is possible to inspect goods before purchase.

Malcolm – I gave my Humax registration number to Currys when I called them and provided Currys with a copy of the email with the registration reference number when I returned the faulty product to their store. That was last Sunday and I will call on Friday if I don’t hear from them beforehand.

It’s interesting that their Service Docket is marked ‘Customer to Pay’. The customer has no intention of doing so.

Hi @wavechange, sorry for not getting back to you sooner. It’s very clear that your contract is with Currys as the retailer, so you did the right thing going to them. You should be covered for two years for an electrical item under EU rules. Have you tried using our free faulty goods tool? It generates a free legal letter to give to Curry’s https://www.which.co.uk/tools/faulty-goods-complaint-tool/

Hi @ldeitz – No problem – I did start to use the faulty goods tool, but then decided I would give Currys a ring to find out if they would be any more helpful than they were last time I had a problem, which was years ago. Next time I have a problem I will give it a go.

We have discussed the two year EU guarantee several times on Convo and believe that it is the equivalent of the UK Consumer Rights Act, but for a shorter period. Sometimes I wish I had studied law…

@ldeitz, Lauren, I think there is often confusion about the EU 2 year guarantee. As far as I am aware, this is a “legal” protection for the consumer, not a requirement for a 2 year commercial guarantee. It is the period allowed for a customer to make a legal claim against the retailer for replacement, repair or refund (may be partial). This is the equivalent of our Consumer Rights Act except that we give 6 years of such protection (5 in Scotland). Is that not the case?

In wavechange’s case the 1 year commercial guarantee was extended to 2 years by Humax if he registered the product with them. Otherwise in that second year he would have only had CRA’s legal protection to use to make a claim against Currys, and we know what a battle that might be. Furthermore some retailers may use the statement on the EU 2 year guarantee to try to evade their responsibilities under the UK’s 6/5 year legal obligation – for all products, not just electrical of course.

I have sometimes turned to manufacturers when retailers have been unhelpful, especially when the manufacturer is happy to send a replacement part.

If the retailer is prepared to arrange collection of faulty goods, they can arrange for them to be returned to the manufacturer, but this means waiting at home for a collection. I would rather that the customer could simply return faulty products to their local shop and be notified when the repaired item is ready for collection.

I agree, but while manufacturers can be very helpful at times, I feel one must, as a matter of principle, start with the retailer and not let the staff get the impression that the customer has to take all product claims to the manufacturer themselves. If the manufacturer is not UK-based or only has an import agency here it is vital that there is a well-established and undisputed route through the retailer to getting a repair or replacement where eligible under the Consumer Rights Act.

As we have said many times before it would be a good idea to have a government-authorised notice displayed at the pay points in every store setting out the customer’s rights [although primarily for the education of the staff!]. A poster on H&S rights and obligations has been a requirement of the Health & Safety at Work Act or its predecessors for as long as I can remember.

It is the principle that I’m exploring. I’m not sure how many times our regulars here have pointed out that it’s the retailer’s responsibility for dealing with problems.

My original suggestion to contact Humax first was to see what they say about exercising the terms of ther warranty. Or, of course, reading the warranty!

Looking at Humax’s website it says:
“ Humax will provide the Humax Limited Warranty for a period of 24 months when you register for warranty in the Warranty Registration section of this website(//uk.humaxdigital.com/support/). This coverage operates alongside and in addition to your statutory rights under UK consumer law. The warranty periods set forth above apply from the first date of purchase of the product. Keep the Certificate together with the original invoice or receipt in a safe place and show them to the retailer or place of purchase whenever a warranty repair is necessary.“!

So it says take your certificate to the retailer.

This should be sufficient to show Currys what they need to do.

So they are essentially agreeing with the Law of Contract malcolm

My approach to getting a problem sorted is a polite pragmatic one – what is likely to work best. Knowing Currys reported history of a lack of cooperation, I’d arm myself with the facts before approaching them. For most other retailers I would approach them first.

If the problem was simply a product failure where the claim was being made under the Consumer Rights Act then the purchaser’s contract is with the retailer and that is where they should pursue their claim. CRA over-rides the terms of any warranty (unless those terms are superior). However here the claim was being made through a manufacturers warranty. So I’d just check what that warranty says so I approach the problem knowing my rights – with the right bit of paper to demonstrate that.

I did go prepared – see my post above. Since there was a manufacturer’s guarantee, I saw no point in making a claim under the Consumer Rights Act because it’s more likely that I would have to provide evidence that the fault existed at the time of purchase (goods more than six months old) or receive a partial refund, accounting for the use that the goods have had.

The company name is Advanced Camera Services. This is their reply to my first e-mail: ”We are currently waiting for the filters for this model and have been told they will be with us early next week. We are therefore hoping to have your camera completed by the end of next week.” This was 22nd of February, a month ago. I know there was snowing in Watton where the company is based so they were closed for a few days, but still…

They say the Pro service is usually 3 days with the normal one 7 days but qualify it -depending on spares . It must be a expensive camera Sacred their charges arent cheap. They say-we pride ourselves on a quick turnaround time with 6 months guarantee but not in your case obviously Sacred . So they are actually disclaiming the fast turnaround by putting -depending on spares which is a bit open-ended. My next question is whats the model /make of the camera so I can check on who makes it and who holds the spares.

Camera model is Nikon D7000, but the service of Infrared conversion is not something standard, even if certain companies such as Advanced Camera Services specialize in it. The process includes removal of the OEM IR block filter and replacing it with the one that blocks visible light below certain wavelength. If I understand correctly such filters are Hoya or Schott glass and are not considered as spare parts. But as you said, they are disclaiming the fast turnaround by putting ”depending on spares”. As the company who specializes in such camera modification they should have ”spares” more readily available. Competitor companies from US indeed have up to 7 working days turnaround time. But I have opted for UK to avoid customs charges.

If they have ordered it from Hoya indirectly it has a base in Berkshire so after this length of time they are probably importing it from Japan . If so that could take a while . While Schott is German in 2011 it moved its factory to China , again a long wait if parts are not available in the UK which is Stafford but it is a distribution business as well as the UK Hoya base . Your question to ACS is –are the filters not available in the UK branches of those companies ? .

I don’t know what to say anymore. Last time I ordered something from Japan it took three days to get to my doorstep. And if our e-mail correspondence is any indication, they received those filters month ago. 35 working days is a lot of time no matter where those filters come from. Thank you very much for your time. I should probably wait patiently for a few more days and hope this to be an isolated case. But I’m somewhat disappointed with this.

If they received the filters a month ago then its down to them having a problem fitting them , it cant be pressure of work or they have damaged your camera , the options arent great . You have said their excuse is they are waiting for the filters , unlike private buyers companies buying spares from abroad order in bulk all the spares they need for other cameras so as to save on postage . I wouldn’t wait much longer and demand a detailed explanation from them, ask to speak to one of the owners .

I recommend contacting the company and politely but firmly asking for the work to be completed as soon as possible.

I once ordered some spare parts directly from a manufacturer in Japan.

The cost of both the parts and the shipping were extremely reasonable and they only took a few days to arrive. Excellent customer service.