Can you see the number that’s calling you?

In virtually all of the MMF cases they have been given the wrong phone number by somebody. If you tell them to stop and they don’t, then it’s harassment and a Data Protection Act breach as well.

Yes Castle, of course it is, but the problem then is in getting anyone to do their duty. West Midlands Police told me that such behaviour is ‘not a crime’ and flatly refused to do anything or to provide a letter to enable me to get my service provider to disclose who was calling me up to five times a day whilst witholding their number. No number or identity and no-one else is interested. How many days of my time am I supposed to use doing the jobs of all the agencies and regulators who are failing to enforce the few rules that we do have?

Josh, also above, is right, marketing calls are only a part of the problem. My parents were besieged by charities, financial scammers, debt collectors (who would simply not accept that they had had no loans and had not ordered from mail order catalogues and not paid the bill) in addition to the usual sellers of everything under the sun.

The ONLY answer is to make privacy and control regulations centred on the receiver and not the caller. It is no different and should be no different to the principles and laws that apply to visitors entering property and standing on the doorstep.

Martin, in my case I actually issued a county court claim against MMF for damages and it was settled at mediation. But of course, as you say, getting anybody to take up a criminal prosecution is a totally different story even if you know who’s calling..

That is an example of a scam run by criminals, one that is designed to defraud you.

It is run by people that are not complying with any of the laws relating to usage of the telephone, and never will.

Gerry. The health professional’s cli should display either a secretary’s number or the general surgery phone number. There is never a valid reason not to display a cli.

Good stuff Richard p but lets also have fines!

Which? is actually complicit in being the lead in a task force that was bound to favour some watered down system rather than strong action to stamp out the menace. If you read the 27 page report you will see it implicitly accepts that there is a right to call people at home once consent has by some means been obtained.

I think most people would think that in fact that nobody should ring you out of the blue to sell you anything other than following a very specific request by you – which is time limited say for a month after the rquest is made.

http://www.staticwhich.co.uk/documents/pdf/nuisance-calls-task-force-report-388316.pdf

Is this the danger of a policy of being involved with legislation at the Governments behest where the consumers voice is meant to be articulated by Which? but in fact is seduced/neutered into being Chair of a cttee where a consensus will be the aim – and representatives of the industry are involved.

” Attendees
Richard Lloyd, Executive Director, Which? (chair)
John Mitchison, Head of Preference Services, Compli
ance and Legal, Direct Marketing Association
Jan Smith, External Affairs Director, Call Credit
Anne Marie Forsyth, Chief Executive, The Customer C
ontact Association
Kevin Rousell, Head of Claims Management Regulation
, Ministry of Justice
Fiona Lennox, Executive Director, The Communication
s Consumer Panel
Steve Wood, Head of Policy Delivery, Information Co
mmissioner’s Office
Lynn Parker, Director of Consumer Protection, Ofcom
Mark McLaren, Parliamentary and Legal Affairs Manag
er, Which?
Thomas Oppé, Task Force Adviser, Which?
Michael Bristow, Marketing Operations Manager, Barc
laycard

Thanks for the link Dieseltaylor. Though I appreciate the effort that Which? is putting into getting rid of nuisance calls, I agree with you that their approach is not strong enough.

As I have said several times the only solution that is likely to work is to suspend the phone service of companies that make unsolicited calls.

This could be stopped by FCA, CMR, Ofgem, etc, banning the use of the telephone for lead generation and cold calling and irrespective of whether the calls are made direct or contracted out to some other company. These regulators have the power to suspend or revoke a company’s licence to trade.

Hi Wavechange. A true sentiment, but it’s more difficult than that. Very often the cold caller comes from a company that you have never heard of previously. When challenged, they say that you gave permission to one of their partner companies on line but hide behind the DPA and refuse to divulge who.

That’s one reason why I believe that it should be mandatory that when challenged, anyone cold calling must produce documentary evidence that they have had permission clearly showing the ‘third party’.

Frankly, if it creates an administrative nightmare for the callers I’d be delighted!

I agree Terfar, but I cannot see any practical way of ensuring compliance.

Rather selfishly I sometimes wish that the companies shared information and they would learn that I never buy anything as a result of marketing calls.

JAILING the CEO of any UK company that buys sales leads from overseas companies that call TPS numbers is the Magic Bullet that would certainly stop this part of the problem ! Fines would only be a trivial overhead, but even the threat of a month’s mandatory jail would instantly work wonders.

Getting the evidence is easy, the regulators just need to instruct BT to have some fake ‘honeypot’ entries in the Phone Book. BT have done this for many years to catch companies copying the directory entries, so the principle is well established. You can even use the same idea yourself, when your TPS number is called just say that the person with your name has moved, and that you’re Mr. L. Driver and have had a crash. When a UK company with a genuine name subsequently asks for Mr. L. Driver, then you have the proof to take action against them.

Admittedly, fraudulent calls (e.g. ‘Microsoft Helpdesk’) are another matter, but getting rid of all the nuisance calls for PPI, road accidents, double glazing, solar panels etc would be easy and straightforward. What are we waiting for?

Could you explain how BT makes money from these calls?

BT charge you for caller ID.
They will also sell you a phone to handle nuisance calls.

They could use these things themselves to fight nuisance calls but then they wouldn’t be able to make money out of people’s misery.

I think it is disgraceful that BT are making money from selling phones to block nuisance calls when they should be helping tackle the problem.

“BT charge you for caller ID.” you can kind of get round that by paying for your line rental a year in advance. You effectively pay for 10 months and get 12 months line rental. Even though caller ID is “free” if you do that, you do still need to activate it.

“They will also sell you a phone to handle nuisance calls.” I just got one as my 10 year old phone was dying. It certainly does the job.

https://community.bt.com/t5/Phones/Problems-with-call-guardian-on-BT8500/td-p/1360921

Judging from the comments some solutions are not easy to implement. However it must be said that this whole situation is providing plenty of sales opportunities for those promising to prevent incoming unwanted calls..

Given that te NSA and GCHQ have the capability to monitor all telephone calls, and I suspect identify very busy numbers, one might feel that it is a problem that is soluble if there was any political will to put rogue mass-daillers out of action. If firms use automated diallers then they should be licensed – as such those for the flood defence schemes. being allowed and those not licensed being terminated.

http://www.research-live.com/news/uk-regulator-ofcom-bolsters-auto-dialler-rules/3001682.article
Well things have certainly improved from 2006 …… not. Perhaps they just moved off-shore.

Hello -dieseltaylor- Interesting your comment on the NSA/GCHQ .I have come up against them for speaking the truth(cant do that you know) and I know that they have complete control of all fibre in/out of the UK and can do what they want to your communications be it telecommunications or internet. Yes they do know and could take action problem is the UK government like the US are run by “Big Business ” so they will never act against their bosses.But thats politics. Phones can be hacked like every other piece of electronic equipment that has a big enough processor its the simple phone they cant do much to. I suspect mine was to make me bankrupt -BUT I cant prove that, You dont expect the Westminster government to act in the 99 % interest do you ?

Probably a very obvious comment – I apologise in advance if it’s no help.

Most BT phone firmware comes preloaded with several “useful” speed-dials – including their directory enquiry number …. 118500.

And they disable the delete/edit options for it!

And another thing ….
I’ve just noticed the charge for 118 500 enquiries ….. 59p per call plus £2.39 per minute.
Does that £2.39 per minute continue for the whole call if you let them connect you?

Yes, BT will keep charging you an amazing £2.39 per minute, even if you’re calling next door’s landline when it would normally be free.

This meant that a single DQ call with onward connection could easily cost an older person more than a week’s state pension.

However, in act act of extraordinary generosity, BT have recently capped the total cost of a 118500 call at a mere £20.00 (inc VAT).