Are broadband ads a ‘complete and utter joke’?

As I understand it the speed an individual gets depends partly on the distance from the exchange, partly on time of day, partly on their home equipment and its disposition. If you contact your potential broadband supplier with your phone number they will check to see what the line, that is under their control, is likely to give. So surely the best way to tell people about speed is to advertise prominently “contact the provider for your likely speed”. I’m only interested in the speed I will get, not what the minimum or the maximum might be for my area.

Surely distance from the exchange is only applicable to people conned into using their phone line to run broadband down. Proper fiber lines, shouldn’t suffer from that problem unless you talking amazingly long distances ? no ?

Why is using a phone line a con? I am on copper broadband and I also use a land line phone, like a lot of people. I asked what speed I should get and was told pretty accurately.

The interview I saw with Grant Shapps was a typical politician’s argument – being economical with the facts (or maybe he didn’t understand the facts?). No mention of how easy it is to get a predicted speed for your particular property, just joining a bandwagon.

Just like this Convo introduction. It is fine to criticise a regulation that allows an “up to” speed to be given that 10% will get. But why not also tell people how to find out their expected speed? Spoils a good story I suppose. But Which?, you are about informing consumers as well as campaigning for them, aren’t you?

Here ! here ! malcolm ! There are websites that give you the real average speeds and they are 10-25Mbps slower than the top 10 % .

@jmadden, thanks Jack Can the potential provider not check your line and estimate what speed you are likely to get (before it goes through your equipment? ) If so surely knowing this is far more useful to an individual than what a % of subscribers might get? It is what I would want to know – and have been told by my provider. Why not publicise this, if it works, rather than some less useful”average” figure (OK, as well as).

I agree. I get way too many letters from Virgin about their great new offers and how I am a specially selected customer

I get about 2 per month every month from Virgin. I never even open the envelopes. They just go straight to the recycle bin. I am MPS registered but Virgin get around that by sending them to “The Householder”.

Sky said up to 10Mb and their speed checker, in nanoseconds always said 10Mb, but I am a cynic and used several others and it came down to 4-5Mb. I get really annoyed when we sign a 12 month contract and they change the line price part way through, t&c’s are used as a get out and that should stop. I honour my commitments and expect others to do the same.
Sky did it to me after 9 months, BT has done it after 3.
Also you cannot have £5 broadband without the line, at whatever price they decide, the price should include it and that would settle their abuse of a contract as well. I think the supplier should be made responsible for setting up another, identical, service if you have to leave because they have broken the contract, why should we have to waste our precious time repeating the exercise because of their failings.
I am not impressed with BT my line still terminates in the same exchange and my speed has gone down, mind you I am not impressed with Sky either, after all these years, they have finally decided they will cherry pick where they will install their own infrastructure, having abused the BT service for decades.
Ofcom is a joke, as are the other regulators, they look after the industry and treat consumers with contempt and an inconvenience to their overpaid calm lives.

I dont know why Llewelyn got a =I disagree he has a point anybody challenging that please have the decency to post your reply to him – I give you I agree .

Dave- “up to”– good play on words .

Your salary will be up to £x. You will find out what you will actually get before you accept. Your broadband speed will be up to X. You can find out what you should actually get before you sign up. “Up to” is quite understandable – unless you choose not to. 🙂

malcolm what they should get and what they get are in many cases far apart there are too many variables thats why “average ” is used . You could use one of many band speed testers for a more personal appraisal but all ISP,s cant calculate what every user should get unless its comes out as a fault when a complaint is made and a personal line test takes place . Your internal wiring could be high resistance, your wi-fi could be slowed down by radiated interference or a whole family on the web watching films etc . Or your neighbour could be pinching your bandwidth , your filter could be faulty, your modem could be at the end of a long extension wiring instead of the master socket, your master socket could be faulty and MS in windows 10 gets “phoned home ” every time you use your web browser , Windows has a long list of service activated programmes on it compared to LInux , these “spys ” slow you down . Your external wiring could be a long country run slowing you down . Peak periods slow you down even on fibre and so on . Too many variables malcolm.

duncan, in an earlier post I suggested that other variables out of the control of the provider would affect an individual’s actual speed. However, we need some sounder basis, and at least the speed that it arrives at my premises – even approximate – would be helpful and this is, I believe, what my provider can estimate.

However, the real point of my post was that it is much more helpful to tell people how they might get a sensible speed estimate rather than to continually moan at business, advertising, and so on – a negative approach when we actually need (at least as well) some guidance. We Brits (well some) seem to delight in taking any opportunity to bash something, particularly business, without pointing out more positive factors. Maybe they feel better? This Convo intro is typical; at least Which? have tried to balance the argument with information on why broadband might be slow, how to get a speed estimate, how to improve your internal equipment (if anyone looks at the links).

You do have a point malcolm your ISP could “ping ” it to the master socket but they dont normally do that unless checking out a customers complaint . Thats why BT /Openreach +others say that if they come into your home and find its an internal problem beyond the master socket you could be charged from £80- over £200 depending on the ISP. Knowing the public if any ISP said – Mr/Ms X your speed should be **** and it was higher than they were getting then there would be a flood of complaints wanting engineers out and a even bigger flood of complaints to Which when they are hit with big call-out charges when it turns out to be the customers fault . Not everybody listens to the advice -UNPLUG EVERYTHING and only plug in your modem/router to the master socket and use a LAN cable to test again for speed and it could still be your computer at fault if your modem/router tests okay and the companies filter is not faulty . Also remember your programming could be faulty as regards Windows in relation to your modem/router in that case its possible your ISP could charge you ,whether they would would be up to the engineers report to their boss.

I havnt seen it like that but I was playing on youtube one evening and mistakenly typed in udderly amazing and ended up watching a video about dairy products which interested me as dairy upsets me no end
Its wonderful what you see sometimes. . . Its even more wonderful what my fingers do and it’s obvious if I dont read it back. . . .Near ever “some” ends up soem

Could be the slow broadband putting it all back together again?

You could consider going to Specsavers, Alfa.

🙂 Ha ha !!! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt or should I say specs, but will not be going there again.

Peter -you have the legal right if the contract you are on doesnt reach the minimum speed advertised to force BT or any other ISP to either downgrade to a lower priced package with lower speeds OR ,at NO cost to yourself move to another ISP without your own ISP being able to hold you to any mid-term contract -get out -payments . As far a “stranglehold” on underground cables is concerned have you heard of unbundling ? . This is government legislation allowing other ISP,s to used BT cables /underground ducting,s /cabinets . As well as that all ISP.s can INSTALL their OWN equipment in BT,s exchange,s therebye overriding any equipment blame on BT . Are you aware that VIRGIN -with its own cables/ducting /etc WONT allow any other ISP to use their cables or ducting ,do you think that is fair ? All those other ISP want to do ,and they have done, is cream off the big payers in cities and towns , why dont you ask Virgin why they wont cover the whole of the UK ?? it wouldnt have anything to do with the enormous financial cost of 5 miles of overhead copper wiring down a country lane as being a “no go ” area for their shareholders ,would it ?

Trouble is they Don’t advertise the Minimum Speed.

John -there is a massive legal problem with actually saying –you will get xxxxx speed as a minimum on any package and that is each UK household has its own internal conditions in relation to wiring . number of users , number of computers in use , the type of programming ,your computer has in relation to other apps on it reducing speed , to radiated (RF) interference affecting your wi-fi , to the resistance of your internal wiring , faulty filters, faulty sockets, a long external run of copper wiring to your pole DP , a long run to your street cabinet ( about 2Km is the break point ) where speed falls , congestion in peak periods even using FTTC etc etc. What you should do if your adjacent neighbours have much better speeds is put in a complaint and an engineer will come out to check out all I have said . Please be aware if he finds a fault in anything beyond the master socket except for a fault in the BT/Openreach supplied filter or HH5 you could be liable to a call-out charge .

duncan, exactly the point. A bit like claiming fuel consumption for your car – so much depends on how and where you drive it, among other factors.

But none of these practical factors are mentioned by the detractors, who seek to present their bandwagon case with one-sided evidence. I’d like to see all the facts made clear (this Convo helps, but how many read it?) and a rational solution found that really helps consumers. What is the point to an individual of knowing the minimum, maximum speed in their area? Even the average is iffy. A means of getting an estimate to your particular premises exists, so why not use that? It is of far more value..

We can become obsessed with knocking business (or any other institution) for what they don’t do, instead of looking at what can be done to positively help.

I will second that malcolm ,intelligently put , an “I agree ” from me.

Malcolm – As I have explained, there is no need to even mention an ‘up to’ speed. All that is needed is to get an estimate for your home. My ISP dropped reference to ‘up to’ speeds several years ago but we need to get the others up to speed.

I haven’t mentioned “up to” above (although I think it is understandable to most people). I have just said ” A means of getting an estimate to your particular premises exists, so why not use that? It is of far more value..” Publicise this as a positive thing, rather than the negativity that seems to appeal to some – including politicians.

What you are saying Tom is- I choose to buy a house a long way from the cabinet/telephone exchange therefore I shouldnt pay as much as other people . i live in a rural location with miles of overhead wiring ,lovely views ,birds whistling , nice country walks that others would die for but because I chose that I shouldnt pay the same as everybody else for a set telephone service and you expect that to HELP increase 100 % coverage of fibre ??? Uh no ! .The longer the distance from the cabinet the higher maintenance costs are ,so using your logic -why should those with direct feeds living in cities with 1000Mbps SUBSIDISE those in outlying areas ?? because the TRUE costs IE-engineering wise increase exponentially in the same way as you are putting forward your point about paying only for what you actually get. So somebody with internal problems that help to slow down their speed should get a reduction as well even though its not Openreach,s faulty but the customer ? In that case instead of charging £100 when called out to a customer and its the customers fault ,to cover the drop in income due to your proposal they would charge £250 because thats what would happen , you are dealing with private companies not a Nationalized Service , could you honestly see an American company working to the point you have made ? , never happen Tom.

ray -fibre is available to your home ,IF you are willing to pay for it and now there is a service that will provide it ALL the way to your router/modem . This is even dearer , it doesnt always stop at the cabinet as FTTC ,as i say , even FTTP can be bettered but it costs $$$$$ . This is contingent on the area you live in London being one place with massive speeds due to direct feeds in some areas that are financially feasible to the various ISP,s .WE are NOT talking 5 miles of copper down a country road or a farm in the hills.

Ian – could you elucidate ? .Do you mean you are getting well under what your ISP company says you should get and are paying for ? When they say they have checked the speed and it is “right ” ,in what respect ? ,in the package you are paying for or the average speed for your area . I would need to know the company and package and area you live in to expand on any comments on your post. Is it FTTC or is it FTTP ?

Wael -could you be specific about the BT package you are on and when you say no other provider has access to the area that would be contravening the Telecommunications act in relation to unbundling of exchange equipment and local lines (existing ) . If a provider doesnt want to contribute (a percentage ) to the installation of new lines then Openreach are not obliged to provide access to other ISP,s , in other words , other companies didnt want to contribute to the cost of initial installation.

jan go straight onto BT accounts departments and tell them BT Infinity 1 cannot be provided at your address they obviously havent been given the change of engineering circumstances . Could you tell me why you were told fibre was quote -no longer available -unquote do they mean the fibre cabinet is full up ? therefore you are staying on copper from the old street cabinet . IF you are charged , and BT take rental in advance you can claim that back from them in credit on your existing service . If you log into MY BT and go to =contact BT — by email – fill in the boxes and put in an official complaint ,they will give you a reference number and will be obliged to reply to you and sort out the problem . Please let me know what is happening so I can help you further.

Jan se thanks very much for getting back so quick a lot of people dont bother coming back. I dont want to put you off but UW wouldnt be my choice if I wasnt on BT I dont want to go into the reasons . I thought that was the case of the cabinet being full up , the thing is it puts many people off but -a hint for posters –if that is the case BT/openreach will put you on their alert list and notify you if someone moves house or ceases their landline connection for whatever reason and this will happen often as there are many customers in a street cabinet .They dont need to be near you as we are talking the exchange to cabinet where the fibre is run not the cabinet to your home which will still be on copper . If you are now with UW then they should be able to put you on fibre but because you have left BT you will have to go through UW as they will now be your ISP (internet service provider ) ,you cannot communicate direct with Openreach. IF you are still with BT let them know there are spare fibre connections at your cabinet. Please keep me posted Jan se

Something not right there David I would need to know what package you are on with your ISP and who they are, as you say “my ISP ” .Its the ISP you are with who legally set the upper and lower speeds package as some ISP have special equipment to enhance broadband speeds . If you are constantly below your minimum speed for your package you can request a reduction from your ISP or a transfer to a cheaper package ,you can also leave your ISP for another ISP with no financial penalty as they cant comply with the contract . This “we knock off a % from the minimum ” is not something I have heard before but will check into it . Does your ISP have their own engineers who can call out to your house or do they rely on Openreach ? . You need an engineer to call and verify that the speed you quoted of 10-12 Mbps are what his test equipment says as well at the master socket . I take it you checked by plugging your router/modem into the master socket and used a LAN cable to verify that the speed didnt change very much ? Keep in touch David.

Keith , extremely sorry to hear of your trouble with BT and I have the utmost sympathy for your mental health issues and in that respect I fully understand your anxiety problem because I speak from experience due to a stinking childhood ,the problems not being diagnosed to late in life but now cured ,not by help or pills but by myself coming to terms with myself . For the first two weeks or so your equipment has to self adjust to the line conditions it sees towards your home but as you say this is persisting . Are you using a HH 5 supplied by BT ? is it plugged into the master socket ? . What you should do is log in to MY BT go to -contact us (BT) then email -then fill in the boxes telling them your complaint they must answer and send you a reference number ,doing this allows you to keep a reference to your complaint on your computer . At the same time an engineer should call to check out your line for faults and speed ,he will do that at the master socket and if the fault is outside will trace it back to the exchange ,make sure you test your internal connection at the master socket before he calls so that he cannot say its an internal fault . Your right ,legislation says if the package you are on cannot reach the minimum speed specified CONSISTENTLY over a period you have a right to change down a grade and get credit for the charges you gave to BT for Infinity 2 or you can leave BT at no financial cost to yourself as the contract with BT on Infinity 2 has not been satisfied in Law. I will, stay with you till you get a resolution on this from BT be assured of that.

While agreeing about “up to ” would you rather they said , you live miles from the exchange/cabinet so you wont get those speeds, you could have many internal household problems effecting your speed , from high resistance internal wiring , your wi-fi getting interfered with by your DECT phone, many users on your broadband ,including your neighbour pinching it faulty sockets and a whole host of other problems some of which you would be charged for if you called out an engineer as they would be your fault . Lumping it into a food product isnt an appropriate comparison .

David I take it you are no longer paying for your broadband service ? The only basic package I can find is one where you dont pay for 18 months and then start paying . Of coarse things will get worse if you are paying less thats why I pay for the top BT Infinity 2 went from around 4 Mbps to about 80Mbps . I am curious when you say-no fault on the line – then why change the settings on your exchange equipment that indicates to me when talking of SNR to be a cable fault . But if nothing has changed except your package I suspect they have downgraded your QOS on your equipment . If your modem is rebooting thats a problem and your equipment in the exchange could go into fault mode which downgrades your speed for a week or so there could be another reason but could you get back so we can talk ?

Yes Argentine Ralph and in the country , but there is one ,if not several big differences between us and them they extensively use wireless and satellite broadband . they employ satellite earth stations from 3 Intelstat earth orbiting satellite and the domestic satellite system is served by microwave radio relay (used in Scotland to the western islands ) and the DOMESTIC satellite Internet system has 40 earth stations spread all over the country with fibre between each main hub and smaller local hubs sending microwave to subscribers so there is no direct comparison with Argentine and the UK.

I dont know who your ISP is M Bennett but dont hesitate your require more than a lead and micro filter , you require an engineer to investigate. Plug your modem/router into the master socket ,use a LAN lead ,retest , if it is still very slow, cutting off then get them out to investigate ,you will need to try this over a at least an hour to make sure , so dont just plug in and do a quick test but certainly get action from your ISP .At first glance it could be an intermittent fault these take longer to fix ,sending you a filter and a cord is a cheap way of trying to solve your fault dont “live with it ” complain pronto. It cost your ISP anything from £80 to £ 200 to send an engineer out to do REAL practical tests.

Pleased to hear that David its certainly an answer in a lot of cases ,especially anyone like yourself .

Old_D – If your alarm is connected to a far answering service (control room ) then a constant signal is being sent digitally . if that is interrupted then it calls their board . But the downside is that means more induced “noise ” on the BT line that would lower the speed , that BT has managed to get it near to the agreed speed means they have applied filters of some sort that work . Especially as the wiring is now non-standard which can load the line even more, I would be quite happy under the circumstances.