/ Home & Energy, Money, Shopping, Technology

Black Friday: what’s the hype?

Black Friday – is it hot or not? We’ve invited three community members, Beryl, Ian and Duncan, to share their thoughts on this shopping event.

From humble beginnings

Beryl

Pondering the origins of Black Friday, Beryl thinks it’s only a quick fix to lift spirits during the festive season:

‘Black Friday conjures up an abundance of dark negative thoughts, associated with past Black events, such as Black Monday in 1987 when stock markets crashed around the world and Black Wednesday in 1992 when the British Conservative Government was forced to withdraw from European Exchange Rate Mechanism.

‘Curiosity got the better of me when Black Friday appeared on the scene with media portrayals of people scrambling and fighting for sale bargains in our large departmental stores.

‘Black Friday takes place on the fourth Friday in November each year following Thanksgiving Day in the USA. Families gather to celebrate and feast on turkey meals which contributes to in a happy and convivial atmosphere in readiness for the real highlight of the holiday weekend, Black Friday. In lifted moods from the previous day’s merry making they set out for a limited one day extravaganza.

‘With adrenaline buzzing following a week of heavy media advertising, people queue all night for a deal that can’t be missed. A true field day for shopaholics seeking social and sensational therapy to help build their low spirits.’

Crafty commercialisation

IanFor Ian, Black Friday is a time for retailers to reap the rewards:

‘Even the name leaves many feeling uneasy and, yes; it’s another American import.

‘Almost unknown over here until five years ago, when the US online retail giant – Amazon – thought it would try its luck over here, it’s rapidly grown into the busiest shopping day of the year, taking more than £800m last year and expected to top the £1bn mark in 2015.

‘Many argue it’s simply an opportunity for companies to unload goods they can’t sell at their normal prices (and there may well be good reasons why they can’t). While others voice their concerns that this is simply another gimmick for separating the hard-up from their hard-earned. Amazon’s infamous ‘1-click’ makes it possible to buy things with a single touch of a finger, for instance, while many on low incomes, struggling to make ends meet may well feel pressured into buying things they don’t really need.’

Pressurised to buy

DuncanDuncan agrees and feels it’s a pressurised push for us to spend, spend, spend:

‘It is purely a commercial sales exercise designed to spend money on gifts for Christmas.

‘You are encouraged to get into debt, while those too poor to buy those things look in shop windows exactly like the poor Victorians did gazing at things they could never own. While a “Christmas Carol” play comes to mind there is zero chance of a happy end for the crippled child as modern day scrooges, unlike the play, keep taking from the poor but won’t give.

‘Sales? Only for those that can afford it.’

Black Friday: hot or not?

So Black Friday seems to have become a “thing” in the UK.

Whether or not you’re a fan of Black Friday sales there are some bargains to be had out there. Equally, there are plenty of dud deals, for example we found some coffee machines that are on sale all year round. Our Black Friday hub will help you spot what’s hot and what’s not.

So what do you think? Are retailers making it a little bit too easy to impulse buying, or are they simply making it more convenient for shoppers? Do the goods on sale represent quality merchandise, or is it yet another opportunity for firms to dispose of hard-to-sell stuff?

Comments
Member

To start the thumbs down, most of us are responsible for our own actions – or put it another way, we would not want other people telling us how to run our lives, financially or otherwise. So if we choose to fritter money away (that we may not have) in any way that is surely our choice. Many may get good bargains, things they need, stuff for Christmas. Some simply enjoy shopping and getting what they hope is a bargain (just like some like spending money on a gig, a football match, a foreign holiday if you can stretch to those)

Me – I’m a bit of a conservative scrooge and generally think hard before making purchases; not what you would call an impulse buyer. As for staring in shop windows at things I can’t afford, well I suffer from envy, however much I may or may not have. A better car, bigger house, nice holiday – but I can get by.

My main proviso would be if Black Friday “bargains” were misleading. Rubbish brands or rebrands, regular products “cut down” to meet a price, reductions that are not genuine. I’d clamp down heavily on those and penalise the retailers – well, I’d ask Trading Standards to if we had an effective organisation.

Member

I agree It is over hyped even by Which

Member

PS – just had an email from Skates: “Don’t Miss Out! – Black Friday Week Ends Monday”. So its really “Black Week” then? Soon be “Black Month”………. 🙁

Member

We already have a name for that. Its called a “DFS sale” !

Member

I agree with this, what a hype and a waste of time. all they are interested in is money at the end of the day. so next thing they will be saying is black whole year. wouldn’t that be wonderful, I don’t think so.

Member

The “January” sales officially start on December 23rd ,several days before xmas (no longer a “Christian ” celebration ) but a “Commercialmas ” , decorations etc are being sold off at rock bottom prices. Whats that I hear mummy a carol singer ? no Gwendoline its the tinkle of cash registers and the rubbing of hands of the business owner and a shop choir singing ,if I was a rich man. Mother to Tiny Tim – No turkey for you m,lad only bread and dripping -Tiny Tim -why is that Mummy – Mummy- because Mr Scrooge “austerity ” says so . Tiny Tim -I feel faint from lack of food -Mummy- I will do as Scrooge “austerity ” says in those circumstances – lean you against a wall so that if anybody sees you they will think you are still alive-Tiny Tim-thank you Mummy and a “Merry ” xmas to you his last words gasp.

Member

xmas (no longer a “Christian ” celebration )
————–
Like Easter, it was borrowed from the previous lot, who inherited it from …………….

The Golden Bough………….. A Study in Magic and Religion…………….Sir James George Frazer

Member

Josef I was replying to the artificial theme of this time of the year the media hype while trying to make out its a time of the year to think of others as you rush to buy the latest 4K TV in other words BB has hijacked the real message -be nicer to others. I do know the origins of xmas and its pagan beginnings but I do know I have a spirit even though I think a lot of the bible is propaganda for one religion and written centuries later. The other way of thinking then is = when you die thats it -the end -black in that case we are only here to procreate no better than an insect and then whatever you do thats okay as there is no recrimination -so kill – torture to your hearts content .

Member

Personally I think the idea that we should only seek to do good because there might be a higher being “keeping score” is self-evident nonsense.

Anyone with feelings for their fellow humans (and other animals) should easily be able to distinguish between good and evil without any recourse to, potentially mythical, deities.

Member

Okay Derek -your take to what happens after your last breath -listening with eagerness to your reply. -Blackness then -the END no more YOU as a thinking entity in any sense ??

Member

DL – that might indeed be the case. I have no way of knowing the truth of the matter.

But if I do good stuff now, everyone benefits and if I do really good stuff, the benefits will persist long after I am dead and gone.

Member

That second paragraph I totally agree with morally and spiritually .In reply to the first unusually while not having an easy life What I do have is called in the modern idiom “total recall ” yes Derek I am one of those people who remember everything -who said what the weather etc even being in the womb and before that . This wasn’t something I asked for as the implications mean I remember like a TV movie in wide-screen Dolby sound including all the bad things done to me. So I dont need a psychiatrist to try and hypnotist me ( which they cant ) immune to auto suggestion to know why I got depressed . But I do know I didnt want to come here as I knew what would have to go through . I am not asking you to believe me I am only telling you what I know to be true and if anything I speak the truth ,even to my own detriment as you have observed in my posts here and those that know me on International websites would agree . What you are doing if your words are true can in no way be bettered in this world whether you believe in a “here after ” or not . You can have belief and do evil just look at the Spanish invaders of South America or the European invaders of America in relation to the Native Americans so belief isnt really number one being good is and thats how you progress Spiritually ,even if kicking and fighting you deny any Spirit.

Member

Not sure Frazer’s work is the best example. Overall, The Golden Boughs volumes are less than scrupulous in their planning and layout, and his essential premise (Magic to Science via religion) is questionable, partly since we have so many scientists who seem to be avowed theists.

Member

Ian -It would surprise many people that scientists connected with cosmology and even atom braking are starting to admit their might be a “higher being ” as one after another deeply entrenched scientific theories are proved wrong by modern scientific investigation and atoms behave non-rationally the more they are pulled apart.

Member

Not sure about your main point, there. Scientific theories are simply that: ideas that are open to dispute or confirmation. I suspect your other point is in regard to Quantum Physics and they do behave rationally, just not in the anticipated frame of reference.

Member

Your right about the Quantum Physics it was an article written only a few months ago about an “impossible ” movement of certain atoms I am trying to find the article again I should have archived it or screen-shot it.

Member

Progress in science requires the breaking of old theories and their replacement with better ones.

Also, if we did ever succeed in the provision of a physical proof for the existence of god, then wouldn’t that remove the need for any religious beliefs?

Member

Your second paragraph is philosophically correct , if “He ” appeared in a physical form religious beliefs would be 100 % justified ,to us human beings who live on this earth in physical form but just think of the many people who have spent their lives helping those in need ,they are a lesser personification of God upon this physical plane . Take (for example ) Mother Teresa praised for decades until she made the “”mistake “” (NOT ! ) of helping those in countries the West didnt approve of (USA ) all of a sudden she was vilified and stories of her recruiting for the Catholic Church abounded all remembrance of the good she had done worldwide destroyed by evil people who werent good enough to even stand in her shadow.

Member

Surely Duncan, what Derek was postulating was that if there were physical evidence of a higher being then religion would be redundant since the existential fact would prevail?

I cannot believe there is anybody on this earth who at some time in their life has not done something to help somebody else. However, on this site we are here to help consumers make the best of their lives in the commercial maelstrom that envelops UK society and that is about as much as I can handle at the moment.

Member

John I am not asking or trying to convert anybody to any religious belief that would be against my principles. That doesnt stop me replying to a comment on it . As I said in my other post I dont put belief first I put innate goodness first .You cant compare body and soul one is incarnate the other non-existential -IE-spirit taking up no space/time upon this plane so is hard to justify to beings dealing solely with matter. I also said in another post to Derek that I agree with him that religion would not need to be justified if God appeared here and that religion would then be “fulfilled ” on earth as God would be with you.. AS to –you cannot believe that there is somebody who has not done good in their life –well facts prove you wrong .Even the most evil man/women will do good to their own children I do not have the same faith in human nature as apparently you have because I have witnessed it first -hand . let me tell you a fact. A certain man took a group of blind people to a holiday island in the UK ,he told me when they got off the boat on the pier as they approached the exit gate he told them all to duck as he said there was a height obstruction across it the blind people all bent forward and ducked as they went through the gate he laughed to himself (and was still doing it telling me ) because there was NO obstruction . NICE -eh !! or the woman that I met in a hospital who came home from Canada to die from Cancer in the hospital I worked in told me quite plainly she knew she was dying so they let her wander the grounds . She told me she poisoned 3 husbands one in this country and 2 in Canada for their money . It was on her conscious and she had to tell somebody as it bothered her now she had not long to go . No I didnt call the police as it might have cost me my job due to patient confidence by staff in any case she died in a month or two. I have a long list of even worse actions of our so called “decent public ” but it would bore you. I do agree we have as much on our plate to deal with practical realities but if somebody puts the question surely an answer is required as you replied to me.

Member

Sorry Duncan – I hope you didn’t think I was trying to constrain you. I was just trying to clarify. You seemed to be agreeing with Derek’s point that if a higher being did materialise there would be no need for religion, but you replied that “if ‘He’ appeared in a physical form religious beliefs would be 100 % justified” – the direct opposite of what Derek was saying, so I was wondering if that was what you meant.

You also seemed to challenge my sentence “I cannot believe there is anybody on this earth who at some time in their life has not done something to help somebody else” because you said the facts prove me wrong. Yet you went on to say that “even the most evil man/woman will do good to their own children”; my point exactly. There is goodness in all of us; unfortunately in too many cases it is overwhelmed by badness.

Member

At the top of this sub-thread [The “January” sales . . . ] Duncan said that Christmas was no longer a Christian celebration. In the part of the country where I live it is very much a Christian celebration, it is an important part of the local schools’ activities, there are many community activities based around Christmas, commercialism is held at bay, and although materialism cannot be denied it is not as rampant as elsewhere. Most people appear to respect the Christian traditions even if they are not practising or were born to other faiths or none at all. The essential messages deriving from the Christian theology seem to resonate and many non-Christians like me do indeed take comfort and satisfaction from that.

Member

1)….. Where’s that, plz?
2)….. ”The essential messages deriving from the Christian theology .. ”
Which are ? ?
** Is blowing up a legal pregnancy termination clinic, and shooting dead bystanders, one of those messages?
** Is classing women as being a lesser type of human than men, one of those messages? A sort of Gender Apartheid ?
** Is being given £millions of Taxpayers dosh to run a school that will only employ teachers of one particular sub-section of a death-obsessed-cult**, one of those messages?
———
[ ** = Xtianity ]

Member

I suggest you read :
1)….. ”Academics suggest Hitch called it right on Mother Teresa.”
And then:
2)…..
The pope beatifies Mother Teresa, a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud.
By Christopher Hitchens
”She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. And she was a friend to the worst of the rich, taking misappropriated money from the atrocious Duvalier family in Haiti (whose rule she praised in return) and from Charles Keating of the Lincoln Savings and Loan. Where did that money, and all the other donations, go? The primitive hospice in Calcutta was as run down when she died as it always had been—she preferred California clinics when she got sick herself—and her order always refused to publish any audit. ”
C Hitchens.

Member

I direct your comments to -I cant put the full URL here so -the hindu.com/opinion/lead/the-mother-etc .She was loved in India and they quote =there can be no better reply to muckrakers than her life and work read that Josef . Including a long list of Indian posters praising her and condemning her detractors . I have read her life story -not a 2 minute version but a book length edition by a historian .

Member

duncan, “The “January” sales officially start on December 23rd”. I get my “December” Which? magazines half way through November. We seem gradually to be eating into the future to bring it closer. When the National Lottery results for a Saturday are made available to me (please not them!) on a Friday I’ll be less critical. :mrgreen:

Member

You still doing the Lottery malcolm ? . Now 6 numbers up from 49 to 59 –odds / 45 Million to one best of luck malcolm .

Member

What we really ought to import from the USA are the normal prices they pay for their goods.

Instead, here in the UK (aka “treasure island”) we often find that we have to pay on the basis that 1 pound here buys the same as 1 dollar over there.

Member

I noticed this long ago Derek , speaking personally to many Americans as well as by post and emails and website surfing Americans get better priced goods for their bucks even when compared to this country you would never think the £=$1.6 and Americans shout to the rooftops if they think they are being “taken ” by BB .The official reason ??? – bigger population –bigger competition but on checking in the UK its down to corporate greed .

Member

I do not agree that “corporate greed” is the only credible reason why UK prices can be higher than US ones. I’m sure US corporations can be pretty greedy too – look at Apple and Microsoft for example…

There may be some validity in the arguments about economies of scale. Also I think American consumers can be more “hard nosed” when it comes to negotiating prices.

Member

Should be a comma between “here” and “it’s” in the second line of my little bit. Lauren edited the sentence to remain within her word count, but inadvertently (I’m sure) removed an allusion to Amazon, which then changed the syntax and might leave people thinking I’m mildly illiterate. So, in the interests of full disclosure, here’ the full and original text:

“Black Friday. Even the name leaves many feeling uneasy and, yes; it’s another American import. No one’s sure how the name came about, although many believe it’s related to the bonanza enjoyed by the big stores going into the ‘black’. It’s held on the Friday following Thanksgiving Thursday and was almost unknown over here until five years ago, when the US online retail giant – Amazon – thought it would try its luck and introduce it over here. It’s rapidly grown into the busiest shopping day of the year, taking more than £800m last year and expected to top the £1bn mark in 2015.

Many view the day as an opportunity to buy items far more cheaply than even in the traditional Boxing day sales, and the major retail chains seem set to make this year the biggest yet.

For those pondering the coming season of gift exchanging, this might seem a golden opportunity, but it’s not all straightforward by any means. Many argue it’s simply an opportunity for companies to unload goods they can’t sell at their normal prices (and there may well be good reasons why they can’t) while others voice their concerns that this is simply another gimmick for separating the hard-up from their hard-earned. Amazon’s infamous ‘1-click’ makes it possible to buy things with a single touch of a finger, for instance, while many on low incomes, struggling to make ends meet may well feel pressured into buying things they don’t really need.

The concerns have even been debated in Parliament, and last year Lib Dem MP Greg Mulholland tabled a motion in the House of Commons criticising “large retailers who chose to adopt the American retail custom of Black Friday” for enabling public disorder and wasting police time. The motion, which was signed by Jeremy Corbyn, called on UK retailers not to engage in Black Friday again.

So what do you think? Are retailers making it a little bit too easy to succumb to impulse buying or are they simply making it more convenient for shoppers? Do the goods on sale represent quality merchandise, or is it yet another opportunity for firms to dispose of hard-to-sell stuff? In short, what is Black Friday: yet another profit-motive US import or a golden opportunity to save prior to Christmas? “

Member

Yes Ian your right especially the last paragraph -US import /profit motive ,by the way Amazon is telling a lot of customers to change their passwords ,just thought I would mention that in case of financial problems with users .

Member

Good morning Ian, as you know the comments were not posted in full as the article was a bit long. I did try to make sure that nothing was lost in the editing. I’m happy to pop this comma back in, but I’m afraid I can’t see where it’s missing. Could you pop this in an email and I’ll make the required edit today. Thanks

Member

I shall do that forthwith.

Member

1)……. As a new entrant to this Forum, I do find it difficult to sort out who is an official Mod, and who just appears to be. I have posted and asked that Official Mods signify their status in some way. So far this seems not to have been done.
Your explanation of why this has not been undertaken would be most welcome.
————-
2)………… What other ” ‘Editing’ without consultation”, rights do Mods have please – I don’t mean Deletions.

Thanks

Member

I posted the first time you asked: Administrators (or Moderators) have a red line down the RH side of each of their posts and a red circle around their names.

Member

Since I don’t spend all of my time on this site
AND
The post didn’t reach my ”hearing”
AND
How am I supposed to know that’s what those indicators mean?
AND
A simple word like AdMod [Administrator – Moderator] would be so much easier for those not already ‘In the In Crowd”.
AND
I trust that you’ll get a payment for doing the AdMods jobs for them.
BUT
‘fraid all I can send is a thank you.
SO
Thank you.

Member

Hi Josef – Almost without exception, when the duty moderator amends a comment they put a note at the foot, in italics, to say something like “This comment has been tweaked to align with our community guidelines” [and the same applies to the removal of posts], and they include a link to those guidelines so the writer can see the reason for the moderation. I don’t think any changes or deletions take place without it being stated.

As was explained elsewhere recently, the Which? staff cannot cover the weekends comprehensively so questions raised then might go unanswered for a day or two, but other participants might volunteer an answer.

If you go right to the top of this Conversation you will see that it was written by Lauren Deitz [Conversation Editor] and she has done most of the moderating, but her posts have mainly been part of the Conversation and this happens quite a lot – where the author of the Intro picks up points or answers queries or gives more information, and the red bar and circle are there to highlight their contribution and distinguish it from the other commenters like us.

I would recommend, if you do leave a question, that you pop back from time to time to see if someone has offered a response. I have found that within minutes of saying something another member of the community has come back with an explanation or a further point and it keeps the conversation lively.

Member

Thank you for that, tho’ because of the silo-ed structure , and the pageless format of this forum, returning to a particular post after doing something else in one’s life, is errrr – difficult.
Your repeat of the
”red bar and circle are there to highlight their contribution and distinguish it from the other commenters like us.”
is, now I know what it means, obvious.
But
” … as we know, there are known knowns;
there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns;
that is to say we know there are some …. ”

And how should I ken, if I didn’t ken in the first place?
.

Member

I’ve got a tip on that as well: If you click on “Our community” in the ribbon across the top of the page, then either scroll down the page until you find your name and avatar [if the post you are looking for is recent], or enter you name in the “Search for someone” box, you will see all of your posts in order of the latest first.

Member

YET another GREAT ‘tip’ – t u.
WHY are all these not rolled into one
*** Intro Package for Newbies?***
Or would that not be Public School enough for the Interns who seem to run most of these Forums nowadays, and wish to follow in the path of such past members of this Parish as Roger Taylor ?
.

Member

Entering the world of Which? Conversation is a journey of exploration and discovery. But a ‘new users’ guide’ is an excellent suggestion . . . why don’t you post it in the Conversation called “Welcome to the new Which? Conversation” [3 September 2015]?

Member

I wrote the User Guide for the very first W? forum (think it’s still there, actually) and in those days you really, really needed a guide. Not quite as necessary, now, since most forums have adopted similar modes of operation, and if you’re used to one you can normally extrapolate to another.

This one does lack two very useful items, though: a decent ‘Quote’ function and chronological post listing. I still find the threaded post system can be very confusing – especially to newcomers. However, the Message Centre system here (click Recent Activity / comments ) is pretty good, to be fair.

Member

WILCO

Having last night watched the TV prog about the last flight of the Vulcan, what else can I reply, WingCo ?
;-))

Member

I have not yet been led into temptation and I intend to keep it that way. The things I want are never sold cheap anyway.

Member

Budgerigars? 🙂

Member

My aunt had one – she hung its cage next to the window so it could see out. I don’t want one even if they are going cheap.

Member

”Auntie Mary had a canary
Up the leg of her drawers
She pulled a string to hear it sing
And down came Santa Claus ”

[Trad.]

Member

Josef I remember the first two lines but (maybe ) you have changed the last two due to decency(or maybe I have traveled in rough circles )

Member

Sharp as Occam’s Razor as ever, DL.

It is the cleaned up version, as you rightly point out. We Newbies do have to step lightly to avoid the :
Rule of Three Thumbs Down
lest we be relegated to the
Do NOT Buy
box.
Whereupon there would be a
Great Whaling, and National Teeth (sic)
from me at least.
[That bible gets in everywhere]
.

Member

Your sarcasm is just as biting as my comments Josef.

Member

I assume that John is referring to things that money cannot buy, so no point in looking for discounts.

Member

You never own what you buy anyway – ‘cos when you’re gone, you’re gone. We just temporarily borrow things. Keeping away from temptation may be the road to future comfort. 🙂

Member

You believe in the Curator concept of life, then? ISTR that was an Eric Frank Russell concept originally.

Member

I have not read about that concept but I take it as meaning somebody “overall ” looking after us in that aspect I would agree conditionally until you provide me with expanded info ( books full name /author etc ) . IF we didnt need to learn we wouldnt need to be here and become a “Universal Being ” .If the thought of another life doesnt appeal then maybe think another dimension that seems to make organic/sentient/ thinking beings feel more easy with as scientists have already postulated it . Its probably hard to get around the “no body but still “you ” concept as space/time/distance are all linked to a physical world and universe . Think and you are there ,think loved one they are there with you ,no body -no time -no distance.

Member

EFR was a Sci-Fi author, DL. I think he originated the Curator concept which was simply that we’re all a part of the life cycle on this planet and we therefore have not only a duty to take care of it, but none of it is ever our own; we’re simply curating it for the future populations.

Another Sci Fi author – Kim Stanley Robinson – expanded on the idea in the Mars trilogy. He had some interesting ideas of which I’m pretty sure you would approve. One was that ownership of land or property was strictly forbidden; everything was rented. The twist was in how governance was accomplished. There were no polls and no voting. Instead, unless they could advance a very good argument against, every adult over the age of 16 had to serve a term of office on a regional council – very like jury duty today. Those seen as the best on the councils were then moved on to the national bodies.

Neither idea, however, presupposed an overall deity or higher being. Both instead chose to focus on individual and collective responsibility towards the planets in question.

Member

I belong to the previous generation of Science Fiction readers -IE- Issac Asimov /Arthur-C-Clrark etc so I dont know the new ones. No Ian ,although I have posted on the UK Socialist website (as well as far right ones ) I am not a Marxist ,my political thinking covers parts of all political pursuances although still left-wing in relation to our “beloved ” leader” . So I dont have a problem with owning your own land unless it is vast stretches of this country which are barred to the public unless you pay £1000,s for -huntin,-shootin,- fishin,. Especially if its owned by Middle -East moguls with £bilions to spend on buying up the UK due to keeping their subjects in abject poverty. Modern writers shy away from using any “spiritual” beings in their writings as there are many in this country who strongly object to it and thereby they would lose income from non-sales. So you get ,as you stated in the last paragraph, concentration on a theme that is at the heart of many namely enviromentalism, this sells better , not stupid those book writers . Most people dont want to know that they are not immortal in the corporate sense and are content to just live life as it comes I am not I am not a believer in = whats for you will not go by you, bad as your fate might be you must push it or the boundaries and force action to take place and if you want good you must fight for it and talking of wars many in the UK dont realise how close we are to the next one because of greed that BB will lose out wordwide if they dont wipe-out the other side -follow the money. Dead doesnt mean the END of “you ” just a worn out body or a diseased or accident prone one. Who is perfect in one life ?

Member

Eric Frank Russell was a contemporary of Asimov and Clarke, DL. I recommend his books.

Member

Ian, not much of a concept in my view. Simply that whatever I might own now I cannot take with me when I go. Unless someone knows differently of course………

Member

Malcolm but thats the point I am trying to make forget physical I know its not easy . What you do take and dont lose is knowledge it makes no logical sense for you to learn in this life and for you to lose it next time around . You advance by learning as a school boy get a good job if you have the intelligence and go forward in inner knowledge . Well that stays with you because you earned it by learning so when you come back you come back “twice ” or more you have advanced as you did at primary or secondary school -class to class – so those physical things you cant take with you you replace more easily when re-incarnated as you have done it before . That includes singing /ability to play a musical instrument / being able to teach others /having a higher understanding etc . Physical is only for your organic body spiritual development you never lose only gain -unless of coarse you are a right evil person and then you have to suffer what evil you did to others by suffering the same fate -as above -so below.

Member

There’s no virtue in my philosophy – if I do want something I tend to get it on impulse without waiting for this week’s warehouse clearance sale, or price-match, or big discount bonanza, or Blue Cross sale, or Black Friday, or Boxing Day, or other event, to come round. The only moderation is my inherent frugality and conspicuous parsimony.

Member

My children seem very adept at getting bargains without waiting for events. If they find something the need or intend to buy – a light fitting, furniture, a projector, oak fire doors as recent examples – they spend time on the internet. Purchases through ebay (new Next and John Lewis stuff for example), Amazon warehouse (returned goods or damaged packaging, Amazon.de – same item, much cheaper than uk – as well as individual traders have yielded exactly what they have wanted at really good prices. Even sourcing delivery for heavy items, like the doors, through a kind of on-line bidding site has proved very reliable.

No impulse buying, time to research and think what you need. Why be pressurised by Black Friday?

Member

Todays news seem to prove your children right malcolm-footfall has proved to be disappointing but Internet sales have risen

Member

I personally do not purchase items on Black Friday but love watching the bedlam taking place in the High Street.

Member

Even if we buy at bargain prices, the seller is either making a reasonable profit or will not be in business for long.

It is quite common to see a wide variety of prices for the same camera or other product. I presume that the higher prices are there to make the lower ones look like a bargain. Or would no-one stoop this low, even on Black Friday?

Member

Latest BBC news states more people buying Black Friday goods online than last year and fewer people in the stores.

It makes more sense to me to arrange a pre Xmas sales event whatever colour it may be, than a pro Xmas sale.

I hope we have seen an end to pro Xmas queues with people returning unwanted Xmas gifts looking for a refund 🙁

I hope this unsmiley appears.

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Having visited Dublin one Easter weekend I thought Black Friday referred to Good Friday, because on that day all the pubs are shut! But now that I realise it’s today and it comes from the US, I’m thinking, goodness knows America is full of marvellous things and dreadful things (there doesn’t seem to be half measures, one of the wonders of that amazing country). Why must we keep on importing the bad as well as the good?

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Amongst Amazon’s contribution to culture is the “extortion” of grants from places willing to host its mega warehouses. This includes the Welsh government . And now Which? in an ethical stance uses their services to send you notifications of additional messages to this thread! : )

You have to wonder whether in pursuit of the cheapest deal even charities seem to have an ethical dilemma.

As we know Amazon is blase regarding the safety of products provided through its marketplace and it is probably worse at this time of year. I do believe there are considerable dangers to the economy of local stores in this sales frenzy. The media [and Which?] are generating huge amounts of sales for the big stores who can hold and store vast amounts of stock.

The knock-on effect is to weaken the sales for the smaller stores for the rest of the year until such time as they
collapse. This of course leads to empty High St. sites and unemployed staff – local to you.

I would be hugely happy if this consumer forum would actually man-up and address the economic and social issues inherent in destroying small businesses. And this is the time of year for Which? to do it. please!

Leave it to people to decide what to do but provide the darker side of Black Friday

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Diesel -You might not know it but the Scottish government provided grants for a Wall-mart warehouse to open in Scotland . Your right about the “knock on effect ” on smaller local stores the problem is young people are now conditioned to buying on line even saying they cant be bothered “trudging ” round stores (probably mostly males )

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I can remember the days of ”Window Shopping” in the West End of London.
People got dressed up to do it – even tho’ the shops were SHUT.
For many across the country it was an essential part of Courting, and partner suitability determination activities.

Now, far too many people can’t even hope for 1/2 decent living accommodation, never mind furnishing it.

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BRILLIANT !

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We decided to use the occasion to replace our ancient cooker. Which? as usual was of little use on product reviews.
After visiting a very helpful local store where there was not much to see we went to the only store where you can actually see anything.

Wow!! aren’t cookers a load of tat now. From cheap plastic knobs, badly fitting shelves, badly fitting grill handles, oven linings that easily scrape off when you move the shelves, shelves being held up by a flimsy rack that was not supported at the back (3 brands from the same company were like that), grill pans that couldn’t be removed without scraping agains the glass door…..the list goes on.

We had seen full size Rangemasters at the local store and decided to go with one of their smaller models. There were some very good offers on the internet but we do like to support small local shops when we can. We called them this morning for a price and they came back with an excellent offer. So it is always worth giving them a chance first.

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Alfa -I am on exactly the same “wavelength” as you here . I have never come across such low quality engineering in my life . THis country used to be top of the league (along with Germany ) for quality engineered products till a certain person said -I dont understand engineering and closed it down from one end of the UK to the other turning this country into a service industry . This makes my “blood boil ” I feel very strongly that even now its built into the British physic engineering blood and genes that we can rise up again and be great in this field . But now its Chinese / Polish/ East European etc imports made exactly as you describe our government is more interested in banks /the City (financial ) and giant conglomerates importing white goods etc to this country . This stops 10000,s of engineering apprenticeships for young people that would help our economy . I hate the fact this country is run by suites -for suites who wouldnt know a crankshaft from a camshaft if I ran the UK building UK engineering factories -owned by UK citizens would be high on my agenda I wouldnt care how much shouting and bawling there would be from the City. I would mention — who bailed out the banks ??? the general public so if they cant go down even if they do wrong why cant the UK public say= build it HERE !!!

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Spot on as often, DL.
The ENGLISH have an attitude to manual toil which harks back to their Norman-French invader heritage :
* if it’s classed as manual, it’s for the serf class;
* if it’s classed as sitting around, pretending you’re ”managing”, it’s for the ruling class

This went as far as, for example, a rule at Henley Royal Regatta banning any prospective competitor:
”Who is or has been by trade or employment for wages a mechanic, artisan or labourer.”.
That type of silliness is celebrated by the ”chinless wonder/ pinta-price” element and is reflected in the UK’s incapacity to even build our own next generation of nuclear power stations whilst spending £billions on drone activities such as opera, ballet, buying and selling objets d’art and propping up swathes of major, minor and minute royals, and other harry-stock-racy.

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The Normans remained the ruling class whilst the majority of us Anglo-Saxons were those serfs. The French still refer to the white anglophone world as anglo-saxon, too.
I think the premise of your first point falls down pretty swiftly.

Very few of us would ever even dream of going to Henley, though this example does illustrate the worst of British/English snobbery.

As a republican (not the American kind, just anti-monarchy), I do agree with the sentiment of your final paragraph!

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@ Mousseux
I think the premise of your first point falls down pretty swiftly.
————–
”Spot on as often, DL.”

You mean that DL is ALWAYS ”spot on” .

OK, I’m not going to argue over the odd 1 or 2 %

”Spot on as always, DL!

Happy now, Mousseux ?
Are YOU happy, DL ?

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Very happy Josef ! I am far from perfect but I am open to justified criticism as long as it is not hypocritical .

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I did look up Hypo versus Hyper, tried to post it………………… but it got lost !

Thnx, DP (?)

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Since a large percentage of the UK population is no longer English I think some of these attitudes are on the way out now. I had a good laugh at your comment though; I usually travel serf class so I have little knowledge of the people you describe, Josef.

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1)… ”… large % .. ”
Like ??
2)….. Yep, some are:
Scots
Irish
Welsh
British

;-))

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Obviously full of “banker types ” Josef.

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+ 1, DL