Why getting labelling right makes it easier to recycle

We need national and consistent waste treatment strategy available to all councils. The Tesco initiative is fine, but not the answer. As recycling does exist we should be able to segregate so-called soft plastics at home (but I wonder how many would) for the council to despatch to the appropriate recycler.

Frankly, I rarely use Tesco and am unlikely to store soft plastic in my car to take on my next visit.

I only reported this because the Tesco initiative is relevant and new.

I accept the benefits of good clear labelling and recent advances but when are we going to see councils adopting a consistent strategy. Government must act to make sure this happens.

I see this as a significant interim development on the way to the abolition of plastics in food packaging which should remain the overall objective.

I would also like to see it go from drinks containers but if transparency is necessary the light weight of plastic gives it an advantage over glass.

I thought pet food pouches were made of aluminium, or am I thinking of a different product? The Cesar pouches look as though they are made of aluminium and have the round symbol on them for “producer contributes to a packaging recovery scheme”. I [and many other people] might have been misled by that symbol into thinking it means the packaging can be put in the recyclable waste stream.

Moist pet food is sold in traditional steel cans, aluminium trays (I presume with foil lids) and plastic pouches. Even dry pet food needs moisture-resistant packaging. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the various packagings are recycled. Until there is regulation of use packaging materials, guidance could help us make informed choices.

I avoid plastic bottles but they are preferred because they are lighter and safer than glass.

The round symbol that you mention, John, is the ‘green dot’. I don’t know how much the producer contributes to the cost of recovery but with WEEE waste (i.e. electronics) retailers could pay a small fee to avoid this responsibility, allowing them to direct customers to their local waste recycling centre.

I was sufficiently interested in the problems created by plastic waste to do research on novel biodegradable materials back in 1986, but soon came to the conclusion that we must reduce the amount of all plastics that we use. At the time the problems of landfill waste were well understood but other problems such as damage to our oceans were not recognised.

Many beer and cider bottles are glass, as are bottles for wine and spirits. Quite what decides the choice of material? We transport far too much unnecessary liquid around, particularly soft drinks and water. We can get water from the tap. We could make soft drinks companies provide the syrup so we use our own water and CO2 rather than shift olympic swimming pools full of, largely, water around the country.

Given the relatively fast turnover of crisp [and similar] packets at home I see no reason why they cannot be made of non-metalised material, preferably paper- or starch-based. A lot of the desire for fancy packaging is for marketing and cosmetic reasons — and to appeal to children, of course.

Foil/plastic laminate packaging is used to exclude moisture and oxygen and air can if necessary be replaced by a gas mixture, as in packaged meats. This packaging extends the shelf life of products and reduces waste. I am not arguing for retention of these difficult materials, simply acknowledging their benefits.

I remain to be convinced that expecting us to take waste packaging to the supermarket is likely to be very successful and I would not be sure what to collect. With clear labelling I would be prepared to do my bit.

Smiths crisps were in treated paper bags once – remember the twist of blue paper containing salt? I don’t know how recyclable they were but they were discarded for better-sealed packaging to give longer shelf life. I suggest we need to look had at the trade-off between shelf life and packaging; we may need to adjust shops stocking arrangements if this avoids the need to use non- recyclable packaging. Most people will consume crisps fairly soon after they are bought, so it is all for the conenience of the manufacturer and retailer.

With other perishable products, we may need to change our purchasing habits to avoid perpetuating the accumulation of anti-planet waste.

I don’t share your confidence in people collecting “special” waste packaging and taking it back to the retailer. It is a sticking plaster solution, not dealing with using inappropriate materials that should be, perhaps, banned as packaging.

I have explained that I don’t think these supermarket collections will be very effective but if it can reduce waste I am prepared to do my bit.

But it doesn’t reduce waste, it just returns it. Reducing waste should be the objective in my view.

Walkers still produce Salt & Shake crisps [marked “formerly Smith’s”] but I don’t know whether the bag contains a separate salt portion or the consumer is expected to supply their own.

It is only the staff who can embed images on the site, Jane. We have been advised to upload images to a photo sharing site and then pasting the image link, as I have done below.

I have some Ariel pods as shown in the top photo. The box is polypropylene and weighs 93g. Perhaps Ariel pods could be packaged in cardboard boxes, which I have seen used for similar products. There is a risk of the box becoming wet, which would result in a sticky mess, but packaging the pods in a lightweight plastic bag inside the cardboard box would avoid this risk and save use of a lot of plastic. It’s a good job that Procter & Gamble don’t make breakfast cereals, otherwise we might find cornflakes sold in polypropylene tubs. 🙁

That seems like well-organised arrangements by your local council, Beryl.

We needed to get rid of a large [kingsize] mattress recently. It was too big for us to take to the tip so we requested a collection by the local authority. The charge was £50 for three items, so we found some other stuff we could dispose of as two extra items. We put the mattress out the night before collection day but by the time the council lorry came to take it away the local scavengers had removed the two other items. I hope some needy local people had the benefit of some free pieces of furniture because the council would not have recycled or upcycled them.

I think it was more an organised response to pacify quite a number of irate people John, who were left to form their own assumptions and theories as to why their increased subscriptions were not being executed.

I had a similar experience when two items were left outside the garage for collection by the local council and both had disappeared by the next day. I hope they went to people who really needed them. There are people who make a living out of driving around searching for surplus stuff left out for council collection.

I usually try to see the better side of human nature, Beryl. The local authority, led by its councillors on behalf of the people, could just have been trying to do the decent thing. The collection of garden waste is not a statutory service and is not funded by the council tax so I would hope it would be operated on a more customer-friendly basis than the usual public service mentality.

I hadn’t realised that it was worth scavenging people’s waste for a living. I’ve been in the wrong job. But there is a TV programme where some odd types hang around the waste tips looking for articles they can upcycle and flog. The things people will watch!

Ours goes through an Open Windows process and then sold onto local farmers John so it’s a win win for the local council. Some people are able to take it to their local waste disposal unit. Those who can’t have to pay for it to be collected which can vary in subscription depending on your post code.

I think the people who go around scavenging peoples waste are probably from the travelling communities who are pretty adept at DIY projects. It’s the local Councils who are missing out if you leave your stuff out before you report it to them, as you will be charged before collection.

The better side of human nature is always a preferable choice to look for John, but there’s always another side to everyone, something I have endeavoured to help people with and overcome over many years spent studying and working with the mentally ill, and I have learned quite a lot during that time about what some people are capable of, but it’s very rewarding and enlightening to be able to view the whole human picture.

“It’s easy to look at things, the hard part is seeing them.”

I share your reservations, Em. I don’t want to put anyone off doing their best to recycle but we are often told about contaminated waste going to landfill or incineration. At least Tesco have been honest about it.

I don’t understand why people don’t take bags to supermarkets either, Jane, but I have since before charging was introduced. It has not prevented me accumulating many thanks to ‘helpful’ checkout assistants. Using click & collect I have had many bags forced on me and Morrisons used to charge for this. I have two gardening bags full of unwanted bags supplied by supermarkets and other retailers and will take them to Tesco.

Even though I am very keen on reduction in use of plastic packaging and recycling, whether I will go as far as washing, drying and collecting plastic wrapping I do not know. If it was collected from home I would.

If Tesco can find a processor of soft plastics I don’t understand why local authorities cannot do so, either independently or acting in a consortium.

It is practically impossible to avoid buying products, not just food, without soft plastic packaging, the more so now that people are increasingly buying clothing on-line.

A council collection once a month would be a manageable way to organise it. It would not be too much trouble to store it over that sort of timescale because it does compress.

We don’t have a large Tesco store within sensible driving distance and our nearest supermarket [Sainsbury’s; ten minute walk] doesn’t have a recycling facility for soft plastic but I am hoping it will jump on the bandwagon in due course. Their delivery drivers used to take back any single-use carrier bags but since they no longer pack the groceries in carrier bags they won’t do that.

I feel strongly that standardising council collections must be the first priority, John. I would be happy to collect soft plastics for a monthly collection. This might be more difficult for those who live in small flats.

If supermarket collection of soft plastic has to be the way forward then Tesco, Sainsbury’s, etc. should be instructed to provide collection facilities rather than leaving the decision to individual companies.

In my view we need our government to issue instructions to councils and supermarkets, based on best practice.

Standardised collections are the answer. We have a Local Government Association that I presume looks after LA interests so why can it not get them to organise this? We should not have to expect central government to do everything.

One problem I foresee is the local recycling facilities and what they can deal with. We don’t want to be carrying waste long distances to better-equipped facilities. Investing in recycling centres that can handle all our domestic waste properly seems to me to be essential if we want consistency.

Perhaps Local Authorities should be prepared to be partial investors in such facilities; some managed to find the money to run ill-fated energy supply companies. This would be a much better cause. But where would the money come from? I would suggest from the waste creators – those who supply us with packaged products. A tax on their packaging would both help fund recycling and be an incentive to minimise the waste they create.

The forthcoming Plastic Packaging Tax will provide an incentive to manufacturers to stop using virgin plastic: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introduction-of-plastic-packaging-tax/plastic-packaging-tax

Obviously more can be done, but taxation could prove a useful step in the right direction. We need to remember that packaging does reduce wasted food. I was impressed when Marks & Spencer stopped packaging clothing in plastic but I wonder if this resulted in soiled clothing that could not be sold, at least at normal price.

In-store clothing that people try on and handle is not normally packaged. On-line clothing that is returned soiled should not be refunded.

Taxation is persuasive but we need to use the proceeds to fund the proper recycling of the, hopefully, reduced materials. Our aims should surely be to minimise packaging and ensure what is left can be usefully recovered and reused. Plastic is limited in that respect and we don’t want it getting into the environment where it will damage life and persist for decades; so we should replace it. We can replace spoiled food or, better perhaps, adjust our shopping habits so we use food better. It is no excuse for perpetuating damaging packaging.

I do not think we should be arguing over what is the first priority in the reform of the council collection of recyclable material. The government needs to publish a standard that informs all waste disposal authorities [mainly the county councils, the metropolitan waste authorities and some unitary authorities] (a) what they should recycle, and (b) by when the entire package should be implemented [say, by 2024]. They will each be at a different stage so what they do next to achieve the target will vary around the country. The important thing is to get the whole country recycling the statutory list by the approved date. The waste disposal authorities are big enough to arrange for satisfactory comprehensive facilities to be introduced within their own territories in order to minimise excess transportation. Waterways and canals should be used as well as roads and railways. The combination of counties into consortia should only involve two or three authorities in each case at most.

The government also needs to mandate the waste collection authorities [the district councils, and the London borough and metropolitan councils] to collect all the items on the statutory list by the state date in whatever order of priority suits their present position and the availability of resources. More partnering with adjacent councils might be appropriate for this function, including in respect of particular waste streams.

A monthly collection of soft plastic will be incompatible with the fortnightly collection of other recyclables so co-mingling is not likely to be appropriate. Soft plastic is light and compresses easily so one large soft plastic bag in a distinctive colour [?pink] per household per month might suffice in most cases. This can be left kerbside, possibly for mechanical pick-up.

Over time, as suppliers reduce the amount of soft plastic packaging, the collection frequency could be extended.

Em is right in suggesting that the waste disposal authorities should accept soft plastics at household recycling centres, and this should start as soon as practically possible.

Whether the government should also dictate the colours of the bins and whether councils should collect weekly or fortnightly, whether or not there should be interruptions at bank holiday times, and whether the whole country starts with recyclable waste in Week 1 or Week 2 each year — all ripe for standardisation in some people’s minds — is secondary in my view.

John wrote: “If Tesco can find a processor of soft plastics I don’t understand why local authorities cannot do so, either independently or acting in a consortium.” Jane has mentioned pilot schemes by supermarkets and that seems a good way to judge whether it is worth rolling out these facilities throughout the UK. With luck the recycling centres will handle these plastics in future.

It would be interesting to know what happens to the soft plastics that are collected. Maybe Jane will know.

Among my collection of plastic bags are some once familiar names including BHS, Comet and Maplin. 🙁

Wavechange — Would you like a Woolworth and a Safeway bag for your collection? I could send them to you in a Freeman, Hardy & Willis shoe box. I could include some Shredded Wheat blotting paper and some Green Shield stamps. A Focus branded paintbrush turned up today while I was reviewing the contents of my trunk full of decorating materials.

Thanks for the offer, John, but I plan to deposit my plastic bags in the Tesco collection point. They are mainly smaller ones that have not found a use. Maybe your Shredded Wheat blotting paper could feature if we have a Conversation about everyday ephemera.

I bet Tesco welcomed you back with open arms after such a long absence Wavechange 🙂

Out shopping today I was surprised to see so few elderly people wearing masks, when there are still so many reported cases daily.

Recent research now believes the later you receive a flu vaccination the better, as it’s effect only lasts about 3 months. I am still waiting to be called for both flu and booster Covid vaccination.

I still use Tesco for click & collect, and a couple of other supermarkets. Whether they will welcome me when I fill turn up with hundreds of old bags remains to be seen.

Thank you, Jane.

We are nearly at the end of 2021, so 1 January 2026 would be acceptable for the start of the new consistent recycling collections regime. That will give councils four full years to organise and equip, let contracts for the new waste streams, inform householders, and get on with it.

I collected some stuff from the dry cleaners yesterday. Miles of polythene, cardboard, coat hangers and — entirely legal — no charge for the carrier bags.

I have been looking at the unwanted plastic bags that I have accumulated, over 20 years or more. Some of them (certainly the red bags) have been used for meat. It’s important to protect other foods from juices from raw meat – particularly chicken.

Jane has said that the use of soft plastics will continue and could increase. I’m all in favour of using less plastic and can understand why its use should continue in some cases. I believe that it’s the pointless use of plastic that we must tackle and Christmas will provide plenty of examples.

I buy most of my (modest consumption) of wine from The Wine Society, delivered. And I am very happy with their offerings and service. However, the wine arrives in substantial cardboard boxes with integral dividers so the empty boxes are no use for storage; more important they could be collected for re-use, particularly when they use their own vans, but they are not. So they go to waste.

I visited Tescos yesterday and saw 3 containers where you could leave plastic packaging. They were not very full but clearly some are using them. I’d still rather see this form of packaging avoided.

Another example of poor packaging, in my opinion, is the use of polystyrene foam for packaging larger items. Some companies have moved to use of cardboard, which can readily be recycled. Polystyrene can end up in rivers and on beaches and I wonder why it has not been phased out for most purposes.

Why do some supermarkets put bunches of bananas in polythene bags? Nature has provided bananas with a biodegradable wrapping that can be peeled away without touching the contents. The bags might be deposited at collection points in stores but most will find their way into the non-recyclable waste.

Jane wrote: “As more of us buy online (John Lewis have just reported that 70% of their sales are now online, hence the closure of a number of stores) we need to re-think delivery packaging to reduce the huge single use of cardboard. One solution is the shift to PE envelopes for certain articles needing less protection in transit. And that means we need easy recycling routes for those envelopes.”

I agree that the use of cardboard should be reduced and in other Conversations we have discussed over packaging. I presume that businesses use excessive packaging so that products are likely to survive rough handling by couriers who expect their employees to work to a very tight schedule. Nevertheless, cardboard is recyclable and cardboard that escapes into the environment is unlikely to do much harm, I presume. On the other hand, PE and other plastics are an environmental nightmare. I would like to see scientific evidence (independent of businesses) that your suggested approach is the best way forward.

“One solution is the shift to PE envelopes”. Jane, when we want to drastically reduce the use of plastics, why is this a solution? Paper or card with perhaps shredded paper for protection would surely be more appropriate? We have plenty of paper products in waste that could be recycled as packaging?

Online purchasing does bring challenges, particularly if goods are delivered when the recipient is out and they have to be left outside. Best if the recipient leaves suitable protection than having to wrap them in plastic.

Business will want to minimise the costs of packaging. Unacceptable materials should therefore be avoided by regulation so businesses operates on a level playing field and find the most economic alternatives. Packaging specialists will no doubt provide solutions from their own expertise and research.

“Why do some supermarkets put bunches of bananas in polythene bags? ”. According to what I read, it delays ripening by excluding/limiting oxygen.

I’m not sure about this explanation. Bananas (and some other fruit) produce ethene (ethylene) gas which also accelerates their ripening. It is used commercially to promote ripening of fruit.

There seems to be conflicting advice:
”Take out the bananas from the plastic bag as soon as you reach home. Bananas covered in bags (green bags, paper bags) would ripen faster. Bananas exposed to room temperature ripen slower and evenly. See to it that they are not exposed to direct heat or sunlight.”
………

“Option 1:

Keep your green bananas in a sealed plastic bag if you want to eat them in one week. Sealed plastic bags act as a barrier to keep out oxygen and delay ripening. Ripening fruit draws in oxygen and gives off ethylene, a gas produced by ripening that also serves to enhance the ripening process. Without the oxygen, the chemical process of ripening cannot occur. This is why bananas are usually kept in plastic bags at the grocery store.”

Interested commenters could buy a buy a bunch of green bananas and leave one in the kitchen inwrapped, one in a paper bag, one in a polythene bag and one in the fridge. Report the order in which they ripen.

Yes, web searches provide plenty of conflicting information, not always based on science. Here our focus is on packaging and since supermarkets often sell loose bananas, why waste plastic for packaging others?

Well, because if they delay ripening that is a reason. Next time I shop I will get some green bananas and conduct a scientific experiment.

Cardboard is a product of recycling and generally gets recycled two or three times over. Amazon seems to use the poorest grade of cardboard for its packaging and it gets badly damaged in transit with torn sides, broken corners, and open ‘closures’; it is fit for nothing but I still put it in the recycling bin in the hope that, after washing and mashing, it can be used to form some other kind of material such as egg boxes, or shredded to be turned into protective packing.

The damage to contents is not so much caused by the delivery staff but by the mechanical handling processes at the various hubs and depots through which packages go in transit. I sometimes look at the tracking information and am surprised at the number of intermediate points at which a parcel is tracked, meaning that it has been unloaded from one vehicle, sent on a conveyor belt ride around a concentration hub, on the way being sent down chutes and tipped into cages, before being loaded onto another vehicle, and ultimately sent to the delivery depot where it will be manually loaded into a van for the final journey [possibly being re-sorted en route according to the delivery schedule].

The cardboard packaging industry was complaining earlier this year that, as a consequence of the lockdowns with shops and offices being closed and more goods being delivered to homes, used cardboard was not being returned to the carton manufacturers quickly and they were having to use a higher content of virgin material. Apparently, unlike shops which dispose of their waste quickly via the trade waste collections, householders tend to hang on to their boxes and use them for domestic storage or for other purposes — like playthings or pet’s places — which when finally discarded are in a worse condition.

“manufacturers to behave more responsibly?“. Just as Jane does not want materials demonised, nor should we demonise manufacturers. They operate within the existing framework; that is what needs to be changed.

Because of the persistence of plastics in the environment, with the consequent irretrievable damage they cause, I would like to see them replaced in packaging as far as possible. When we move to a fossil-fuel-free future with ample renewable energy there will be less concern about moving goods.

However, I agree with wavechange about transporting bottles of water around the country; I also believe we should we should rake the same view with fizzy drinks – a waste of bottles and transport when syrups could be sold for carbonating at home using tap water. I’m also unconvinced that we should move bottles of beer long distances, if we really are concerned about the effects of transport.

Cardboard can be moulded – egg boxes are one example but there are many more – so it need not take up excessive space. But it often seems to be used unnecessarily. Why do cereals, for example, need a bag and a box? The point about outer boxes for transport is well made – Amazon boxes stuffed with paper or plastic to take up a lot of unused space. Maybe someone should provide a machine to large users like Amazon that produces cartons of appropriate sizes on demand.

I am not demonising manufacturers, Malcolm, but they can make an impact on minimising waste and environmental damage, just as consumers can.

I am far from convinced about the strategy of taking soft plastics to the supermarket but in the absence of home collection I’m now doing my bit.

Fizzy drink makers and concentrates have been available for many years. I agree about not transporting beer large distances. Glass bottles are heavy. I’m keen on some of the local beers and CAMRA (which I’m not a member of) promotes supporting local breweries.