Waitrose plastic-free shopping: your views

It’s not a myth that our world is being polluted with plastic and it’s slowly becoming part of our diet: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/14/sea-to-plate-plastic-got-into-fish

We have achieved a great deal in tackling disease thanks to better nutrition, better medical care, use of smokeless fuels, removal of lead and sulphur from petrol and reduction of sulphur in petrol and diesel, and the decline in smoking.

We changed from what we were doing 80 odd years ago because we did not realise what the consequences would be, and because there were disadvantages too. Hopefully in the intervening period we have realised that a little inconvenience is worth the trouble. 80 years ago nothing was self-service, and so systems that work with this model have had to be developed. A couple of decades ago there was also a version of this using huge ‘bins’ that you put a scoop into (‘greens’ have been banging on about the evils of packaging for a very long time) but I imagine this didn’t take off because of hygiene issues – just imagine what could end up being put INTO the bins; cross-contamination being the least distasteful. This kind of shopping requires planning – and until supermarkets completely did away with ‘free’ carrier bags, I could see that a lot of people were not planning even so far as to bring a bag, so I imagine people will also need a bit of a push to bring their own containers – surely a discount would work? I think the best thing about this (apart from trying to do what we can to reduce plastic pollution) is not having to buy larger quantities than you need, if you are a small household or simply can’t afford to buy in larger quantities. It’s great. I have been disappointed that since Sainsburys stopped doing disposeable plastic bags for fresh produce I have realised that very little of this is actually sold loose in any case – so I still end up with a lot of plastic packaging. And before anyone says I should shop in a market – I work full time and there is no weekend market in my town.

It is some time since we had a Waitrose home delivery but each type of loose fruit and veg was put in a polythene bag before being included with other goods in large plastic bags for which there was a charge.

We have a large delivery from Sainsbury’s about every three weeks but rarely order fresh fruit and vegetables. Last time, however, there was a bag of four apples on the order but due to a picking error only one apple was delivered, in its own polythene bag, inside a bag with some other items.

Sainsbury’s will deliver with or without bags but if you wish to have bags there is a standard charge of 40p, presumably on the assumption that the average requirement is eight bags. We find having the delivery in bags is much more convenient and easier to handle so we opt for bags. Our last delivery came in over twenty bags, some of them containing only one item. The bags don’t get wasted and we use them over and over again but we now have far more than is sensible. I am considering getting some tubs or strong carriers so that we can transfer the shopping, without bags, from the tote boxes brought to the front door but the tote boxes contain such a variety of goods from different categories that it would be difficult to do it systematically.

Thanks John. I do hope the supermarkets can come up with a solution that involves less plastic waste. On the other hand, home deliveries might – if they become more popular – be a more efficient way of distributing groceries than us all heading to the supermarkets in our cars.

I cannot understand why supermarket deliveries don’t just charge a one-off ‘deposit’ for their crates – and exchange them on the next deivery. Wouldn’t that work?

If someone needs the ability to put a quick meal together, or just requires a small portion, then this can be very convenient for them. I think we should concentrate on bottled water, although canned air might be coming along soon for people living in polluted cities 🙁

I suggest we look at all aspects of waste rather than just some of them.

The problem with that is there is too much to tackle at one go, so nothing will get done.

Our present problem, one in the public eye, is excessive packaging and, in particular, plastics that are polluting the planet. It is a major issue to sort out, with huge benefits when we do. We should get stuck into that and deal with it now.

I think we could leave mashed potato for a later day. Incidentally, someone might work out how much electrical energy it takes to make one portion of mash at home, rather than putting ready-made in the microwave for a couple of minutes – but that’s no doubt another Convo.

Ready-made mashed potato is a very good example of plastic waste. In the photo we have a black plastic tray, which is unlikely to be recycled for technical reasons, a plastic film that cannot currently be recycled and a paper sleeve.

It is the packaging that is the issue, not the potato, isn’t it? Perhaps it could be sold without so much packaging and, if necessary, in an aluminium tray that can be repeatedly recycled. Many products need a film cover to keep them fresh; there may be better materials that can be used, even aluminium foil perhaps. I’d suggest these are the primary issues to address first.

If we are not careful we will keep talking about the problem, instead of getting stuck in to dealing with it. It is now at least 2 years since this topic first arose in Convos and we are still going round the same houses. I think Which? have a magazine article coming up in July (is my memory correct?) and, if so, it will be interesting to see whether they have constructive proposals that can be pursued.

I think we are more likely to tackle waste plastic if we look at all aspects rather than picking on the ones we think are most important.

We often discuss the value of education in helping young people manage money and to improve numeracy. With a sea of plastic pollution and other environmental problems I suggest it’s important to encourage young people to drive forward the changes needed to make our society more sustainable. It’s very much their future.

How did tea bags containing plastic ever get onto the market when the problem of plastic particles has been known for a couple of decades?

Which? could work with WRAP and major environmental charities to help bring about change, but those who can achieve most are the supermarket and other food retailers.

Mashed potato is not compulsory. I can easily microwave a few loose potatoes – if I wanted them mashed, I could always mash them afterwards.

Given all the data that supermarkets and others collect about our shopping habits, we should all be aware of the butterfly effect and try to employ it whenever we shop.

I’m very glad that the Yowk does not seem to have made it to the supermarket shelves. Have a look at this video and think about the waste packaging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5TuPIHQivQ

“Which? could work with WRAP and major environmental charities to help bring about change“.

This issue should be coordinated properly, not a fragmented approach. Which? should not campaign on its own but get together with organisations specialist in a particular field. Feeding in Convo contributors proposals should be a part of their role.

Here is the WRAP initiative. wrap.org.uk/sites/files/wrap/The-UK-Plastics-Pact-Roadmap-v2.pdf. However, it seems to focus on plastics, on a roadmap, but seems to lack real proposals on how to minimise unnecessary packaging. It rightly focuses on plastics but focuses largely on reaching recycling targets. That is a good start but I am not convinced that continual recycling is the answer; plastics degrade in that process and cannot often be reused for the original purpose. I don’t want to see applications being “created” for otherwise unemployed plastic waste.

I believe the focus should be on eliminating unnecessary packaging and, where we need packaging, to use continually recyclable or reusable materials and products to help eliminate plastics from this market.

The decline in quality of plastics during recycling is a point that I have been making since we started to discuss how to deal with plastic waste. Other materials including paper, cardboard and glass lose quality when recycled. Foil made from recycled aluminium can have pinhole defects.

We are agreed on a collaborative approach. I can see a case for legislation to encourage better practice. One possibility would be to provide a financial incentive to sell loose goods.

Preferring the carrot to the stick, perhaps awards could be given to companies that are independently judged to make the best contribution to reduced plastic and other waste. After posting a negative comment about the Yowk above I found that the product had won an award for innovation. 🙁 There is a YouTube video.

“Aluminium foils thicker than 25 μm (1 mil) are impermeable to oxygen and water. Foils thinner than this become slightly permeable due to minute pinholes caused by the production process.“.

Essentially, aluminium is infinitely recyclable. https://www.ecomena.org/recycling-aluminium/. Recycling requires only 5% of the energy that is needed to produced “brand new” aluminium, and, apparently, 70% of all the aluminium ever produced is still with us (but 30% loss is an awful lot!).

It seems to me a prime candidate to replace much plastic. It might, of course, cost a little more to use in place of plastics, but if we really want to deal with the plastics problem there might be a contribution needed from consumers. It may be more than offset by eliminating unnecessary packaging and the use of customer’s own containers.

I’d be interested to see expert views (mine aren’t) on where and how aluminium could be used to replace plastics. Doing that would be a huge step forward. Whilst we may not solve all the plastics problems at one go a big start is better than prevaricating.

Mashed potato is not compulsory

Everyone in the office laughed at my shock at this comment. I am a big fan of mashed potatoes. Granted I very rarely buy the pre-packaged mash as my own mash is far superior. 😉

wavechange makes a very good point about tea bags and I note that Waitrose, self-appointed champions of all things environmental, are still putting their own brand tea in platstic tea bags – as I discovered after fishing some still whole from the bottom of my compost heap ,and later confirmed by checking the packets.

Gosh I hadn’t thought of that. Good point. That’s why a discussion is helpful. Maybe somebody could come up with an idea to solve the cross-contamination issue.

This approach may simply not suit everyone, such as Jenny’s problem. But if it works for the majority, and there are still choices that the minority can use, then well worth pursuing. I hope peer pressure, and consumer response, will spread the supermarket initiative trialled by Waitrose.

This is a very good point that I hadn’t considered. A balance needs to be struck between encouraging sustainable practices for people who can do it and making sure people with particular needs aren’t put at risk or disadvantaged. It’s a good one to pose to Waitrose.

Severe food allergies are a growing problem and the Food Standards Agency often reports problems with undeclared ingredients in food when these are known allergens.

Producing factory-packed food eliminates the possibility that customers could cross-contaminate foods during self-service. Cutting down the use of plastic and other materials is highly desirable but does pose some difficult challenges for the companies involved.

Surely one answer is to avoid products sold loose that might become contaminated, and stick to pre-packaged ones.

Plastic packaging is something we have to minimise, and fast, before we do yet more environmental damage.

Cross contamination (and other things that can get into open containers – yuk-) is best avoided by having dispensers that have a ‘tap’ at the bottom. This avoids customers tipping back anytime they got a bit too much, and any foreign objects being introduced, either maliciously or accidentally. Designers need to get on top of this – it is a solvable problem. Open containers for dried foods just cannot meet high enough hygiene standards and self-service from this type of container should really NOT be allowed.

Anaerobic digesters are an alternative to composing for green waste and not plastics. About the only plastics that can be composted at home are based on starch, such as those supplied by councils for food waste.

We have seen how permanent plastics are, and how difficult it is even to compost so-called compostable plastics unless conditions are good. We must drastically reduce our use of single-use plastics; no other choice. Alternatives are available, from nil or minimal packaging to materials that can be usefully recycled and reused.