Do consumers want to buy more British-made products?

Unless the tendering process were flawed, or the successful tenderer was not in compliance, I presume we are bound by EU law and the results must stand. When and if we exit the EU we can put whatever business we like to UK companies, including crockery for the Houses of Parliament. So a petition seems likely to be rejected. Just like the one asking for their subsidised bars and restaurants to be investigated, on the grounds that employees, as well as MPs, use them and may not be able to afford to eat and drink otherwise. Maybe fair wages could sort that out, if true, but I doubt it is a reasonable excuse.

As I understand it, Harrods is Qatar, Selfridges is Canada, Hamleys (toyshop) is China.

Here’s how foreign exchange and world trade works:

We spend all our spare cash buying good made in China.

Then the Chinese have all our spare cash.

They they can spend it however they please.

Notwithstanding their liking for nice clothes and luxury cars, the Chinese are canny investors and look to invest a lot of their money, e.g. in UK property and sound businesses.

Quite right Derek but Donald has put an end to that in the USA blocking further investment by Chinese business men . They have been blocked in “Silicon Valley ” for one and in other areas . So Donald,s version of “world trade” is- as you know , America First–second and third . Obviously not “with the program ” as they say in America.

Trouble is, China don’t want to trade in a commodity, they want to own it, then they trade back the commodity.

I don’t know what the answer is, but there needs to be some kind of ring-fencing to protect what is left of British businesses. Consumer choice gets less and less, and if something isn’t done soon, we will be left with no choices.

You got that right Alfa.

Just been notified by the US Defense Industry that the Pentagon has banned Chinese designed/made and sales of mobile phones from US military bases.

That’s typical US behaviour, Military disciple makes it easier for them to impose such measures.

Why should where a product is made influence our purchasing decision, surely what matters is quality, value and the ethics of production and transport.
British businesses must provide goods which compete directly on all aspects with imported goods.
If we start to buy inferior goods simply because they are British then what we actually do is sign the death warrant of British Manufacturing because we will fail to be able to compete in other markets.
If products are judged absolutely equal in practical terms we might buy British on purely the basis of Brand Loyalty but we need to be aware that by becoming over reliant on this Patriotic Branding in the home markets could backfire badly in overseas markets.
Right now many other markets are looking at the UK in disbelief and wonder how deep our delusions of grandeur and self deception might go.

Richard-You missed out BRITISH WHISKEY copied by Japan and just about every other country in the world . Do you work for the City ? You also missed out on BRITISH cheeses famous worldwide , why post a foreign cheese ? How about Aberdeen Angus beef ?? loved by Americans , Arbroath “Smokies ” line caught Scottish salmon and I am sure many BRITISH wine -producers in the South of England will be VERY upset at your post .

If you try British wines you might like them, Richard.

I agree, Darren. Every time I select fresh British produce in the supermarket, preferably from a local grower, I wonder if I’m getting what I pay for. Other goods are more of a minefield and what is labelled as British made may just be assembled here.

It’s vital to support smaller businesses or they will go the same way that smaller shops did when the supermarkets arrived. Unfortunately supporting small businesses will do nothing to tackle the control being exerted by large multinational companies.

I got a delivery today from Sainsburys two delivery men arrived the younger one in training so I took the opportunity to ask them about Walmart taking them over . The older guy said they had a meeting about it today and they could talk about it , so I asked the one question I poster here – question – will this means REDUCED quality in the products ? The older guy said that there will be reductions in staff in the upper levels of management to save duplication as Walmart have their own ordering system but was non committal in reduced quality , the younger trainee was surprisingly forthright , he said YES I said you can tell Walmart the if the quality drops its goodbye Sainsburys , the older guy said -ah ! but the two companies – Asda and Sainsburys will be run independently –it remains to be seen . US takeover on the march in the UK.

With respect, I don’t see how these two representatives would have any knowledge of whether quality would be affected, would they?

There was a nice radio clip of the boss of Sainsburys recorded, while waiting to be interviewed by ITV, singing “We’re in the money”.

Major shareholders currently into Sainsburys:
……………………………… Number of Ordinary Shares……..% of voting rights

Qatar Holdings LLC……..481,746,132………………………… .21.99
BlackRock, Inc…………….109,699,242………………………………5.01

Time will tell malcolm , at the moment Sainsburys has a higher standard of food than Asda I am only relaying on what I was told 12 hours ago .

If the quality becomes unacceptable then maybe people who are concerned will stop shopping there.

I agree with you John and so does several world human rights organisations I belong to . The public should be told but expediency and politics gets in the way.

I think you might have answered your own question, John. You missed the bit about these companies paying little heed to the damage to the environment.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to raise awareness of how well known manufacturers exploit their workforces, as has been the subject of many documentaries. That does not help with the vast range of cheap and sometimes dangerous goods imported into the UK. Perhaps we should all be looking at sites such as this one: http://www.ethicalconsumer.org

That seems not to stop people buying Apple products given the publicity about their operations in China……..

We tolerate brutality, corruption, in other countries but still deal with them.

Any one of us can stand on our own principles and choose not to buy products from places, regimes, companies (including those at home) that we do not like; that is our prerogative. Do we do that? Should we impose our individual standards on others?

You could argue that underdeveloped countries will only get “better” through generating income and that gradually standards will be raised. Look back at our own country to see how that has happened.

You put up a straw man. As Jon Snow warned on C4 a decade ago, unlike almost every other developed country, Britain imports most of its goods from abroad, making hardly any. This cannot go on or we will be financially, technologically and culturally bankrupt.

Total protectionism would be clearly problematic but is unlikely ever to happen. However, there is no harm in trying to reverse our particular problem, so we have a better balance of trade and a properly employed workforce, not to mention improved self respect.

Governments are constrained by laws and treaties and lobbied by global behemoths, so it falls to personal consumer power to effect this change. For those who want to, there is nothing stopping them buying British and the gist of Kate’s article is that it should be easier to find out what is British, and asks Which? to help with this. It is not illegal, immoral or, as you suggest, foolish.

I agree Peter.

I agree that it is not always easy to find out where a product is made, but the information could be provided by Which? where it is available. That might encourage business to be more forthcoming about providing this information.

In practice, often the countries where the components are made will differ and differ from the country of assembly, apart from cases where everything’s made in China.

Exactly. Components can come from all over. I guess the only way is to use the country where the majority of assembly takes place. You “make” a car in the UK, but the engine comes from Germany, the transmission from France, the electronics from…….Just hypothetical but where is the country of manufacture?

More important in my book is to look at the quality of the components and build/assembly and this means taking the product to bits. What do we know about the quality of the pump, motor, heater for example? How well is wiring routed and terminated? How easy is it to repair common faults?

This means more work than running a washing machine for a few cycles, checking against the safety standard (hopefully Which? do), and makes it probably unsaleable on ebay, but if you want meaningful information you have to work for it.

However the UK is not the only country using the same product. If this sort of work were coordinated with all the other consumer organisations throughout Europe we’d get a lot more bang for our Euro.

Quite right Derek and Donald agrees with you and is bringing to an end Chinese made parts particularly for the Defense Industry- Made in America is becoming a reality (slowly ) there . But if you remember even parts labelled -“made in Germany /Italy etc ” I have shown in posts previously that the Chinese are labeling products MADE in China as- made in XXXXXX. I have just posted that Italian designer company who has done the same with the frames – made in Italy BUT (really ) made in China AND for those with long memories I posted saying a German Production Engineer ( professional ) had posted on an ( in house ) website saying that the “German made ” products for his company when he went to China to check the quality were coming out the production line stamped – MADE IN GERMANY . It started an argument with another Professional Engineer who told him ” keep your mouth shut if you want to keep your job ” I posted the Germans companies name -after a short while Which removed my post.

Duncan, please don’t assume that idiot Donald agrees with me – or that I agree with him.

He’s just made the laughable claim that tighter gun controls wouldn’t benefit the USA, from the grounds that, whilst gun crime is rare in the UK, London is awash with knife crime…

But the point is Derek he is actually carrying out what he said he would do. He is bringing industry back to the USA, USA conglomerates don’t like it but the US public do . I was not equating Donald’s actions with you Derek if you thought that I apologize . Look I didn’t like MT but I said I admired her loyalty to the City , she did what she said she would do and you can,t criticise her for her loyalty , its just a pity she didn’t show the same to the British public.

Er..no, he’s not. From the BBC world news:

“During the campaign, Mr Trump vowed to create 25 million jobs over 10 years and become “the greatest jobs president… ever”.

He used to claim the actual unemployment rate was more than 40%. Now he’s America’s CEO, he’s embracing the same jobless figures he once dismissed as “phony”.

The basic trajectory of the economy under President Trump remains the same as it was under President Obama.”

China produces decent stuff, as well as undecent (?). Just like many other countries. It is up to the integrity of the manufacturer to state the country of origin.

The EU situation seems cloudy. There was no requirement to label non-food goods with the country of origin but in 2014 “MEPs push for mandatory “made-in” labelling to tighten up product safety rules
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20140411IPR43453/meps-push-for-mandatory-made-in-labelling-to-tighten-up-product-safety-rules
https://www.twobirds.com/en/news/articles/2014/global/european-parliament-votes-for-compulsory-made-in-labels
http://www.newslettereuropean.eu/what-is-at-stake-with-labelling-the-eu-goods/

I have to go out so haven’t tracked down whether any meaningful regulation has been passed. However, post Brexit, the UK will have the opportunity to do its own thing.

Well why was I criticised for posting the facts about Chinese MADE products being stamped – Made in Germany-Italy -etc straight from a German Professional Production Engineers mouth AND not believed by some here ??

Duncan, the idea of the US defense industry using Chinese parts is about as daft as the idea of them using Russian parts.

If you mean “daft ” in its not happening then you are wrong Derek , as you know I get emails from various US Defense manufacturers ALL big names – $billion companies – they are complaining about it and Donald says -quote – its a security risk and has to stop likewise rocket engines what engines do you think the USA hash been using to put spy satellites etc into orbit ?- Russian ones , at last they are trying out their OWN design engines as we speak but that is only in the last 6 months. Plenty of Chinese circuit boards are used in sensitive defense equipment . If you are knowledgeable as you have said in British security matters ask your friends what manufacturer BT used in the electronic exchanges to much UK government criticism and they are kicking up about the Chinese Nuclear plant being built with Chinese electronics in this country , you must know the details of that. On the other hand do you mean daft as in– doing it ? I can get you the name and model of the Russian booster rocket if you want and info on the parts used in the USA, at least US Defense contractors are open about it and Donald has certainly publicized it in the USA loud and clearly .

Thank goodness our British Tommies still use a British made rifle …

If you mean the L22A2 yes its British BUT all the special forces /Marines/SAS etc use either German or US/Canadian rifles .

I think the world consensus would be that the best military rifles are not UK made…

Then again, even the French no longer make their own.

I wonder why projecting a lump of metal from a tube is still seen as a good way to fight? You’d think we would have found a more sophisticated general purpose method of murder after nearly 700 years.

Dont worry malcolm the Americans have , they already have acoustic shock weapons and short range lasers among others of course and are working on RF interference weapons to stun or control the brain. At the moment though hollow-points seem to work –small hole in – big hole out (along with your internal organs ) .

I am worried duncan that the way to resolve conflicts still largely relies on putting big holes in people or distributing their component parts using a canister filled with exploding chemicals. I’d invent a temporary disabling gas so we could tie them all up and find a sensible solution to their dispute – like putting their leaders in gaol (jail) on a suitably guarded remote island. Then untie them and send them home.

I agree malcolm killing people for gain is inhuman.

“I agree malcolm killing people for gain is inhuman”. might be even better duncan 🙂

Does nicely show the issues of missing punctuation, though…. Does Malcolm kill people?

It seems an excessive penalty for going off-topic.

malcolm r said on 5 May 2018:

I wonder why projecting a lump of metal from a tube is still seen as a good way to fight? You’d think we would have found a more sophisticated general purpose method of murder after nearly 700 years.

Well, there are, but most are banned by international treaty. But the effect and cost efficiency of purely kinetic death-dealing models should not be underestimated. One of the more worrying by-products of the rush to commercialise space is the concept of the ‘mass driver’, whereby small asteroids could be brought into Earth’s orbit, currently for mining purposes, or the much-needed Space Elevator, but which would make formidable weapons of mass destruction in the wrong hands.

Dang – that’s blown malcolm’s cover for his side job!

The death toll could be astronomical, Ian. If the wrong hands delivered it in our direction, at least we might be brought back on the Convo topic of Bye British.
My first attempts at a temporary disabling gas were, unfortunately, not as temporary as I had hoped.
I hope the GCHQ trackers are not working this Bank Holiday.

Fine. Let’s have the whole story. Transparent list of whole supply chain on every product. The manufacturers must know this as they control the supply chain. I want to buy British where possible, and avoid buying things from places with dodgy governments. Let’s have the whole story. Probably reveal that many ‘British’ goods are largely assembled from overseas components. If so, I will still prefer goods largely comprised of British components.

Its not easy finding out where stuff is really manufactured Peter , your right of course but the big problem is that many products labelled country -X-Y-Z are actually manufactured in China and labeled – countries -X-Y-Z in that country . I have posted on this several times , one post was removed because I named the German company and the German Production Engineering who was in China watching “their” components roll off the production line already stamped a “Made in Germany ” I realise Which was probably right for legal reasons but that massive Italian spectacle manufacturer actually admits their products are made in China with “Made in Italy ” stamped on them because the lenses are made in Italy.

I agree that it’s difficult to provide consumers with information about where products are made or assembled but Which? could help by telling us if reliable information is available. The simplest and perhaps most important example is where goods made in Britain from British parts.

If manufacturers fail to provide information then perhaps it’s information that would not boost sales.

PeterSpring suggests transparency regarding the supply chain. That would not happen overnight but that’s what we should push for.

Agreed!

I agree, Peter. If I had my way, ethical issues would feature regularly in Which? magazine and be mentioned in reports about product testing. There are many comments about Which? working with other consumers’ associations, which I very much support, but it’s equally important that Which? works with organisations that support a more sustainable lifestyle.

Try Waitrose. Always have some English apples, even our little local Waitrose, and much more British Grown and made produce too.

Since there are apples in the fruit bowl, either Morrisons or Tesco must have British apples. I try to avoid imported produce that we can grow ourself.

💩 (Chocolate ice cream 😇 )

Typical 🙂