Should salary dictate your degree choice?

For the majority of the young population in this country that isnt a choice due to deprivation and lack of incentive due to social background leaving them in service industry jobs -ie-dead end jobs , very low pay . I will leave it to others to debate the finer points of those with social backing/ability /drive to answer your convo.

I’m sure some students will worry about the need to be able to pay off student loans after uni. Hence they may be drawn towards degrees that can lead into well paid jobs.

Others however will follow their hearts and pursue the subject that most interests them.

Also, I think, it is hard to really be certain about the salary prospects from any particular degree.

Furthermore, the option of a further degree – such as a more focussed Masters Degree, can dramatically increase the job prospects of many students.

Until you have joined a profession it seems to me that most people will not know whether they will really enjoy the work. A job is not just about the subject you have chosen, but about the environment and structure within which you have to operate. Even work experience is too brief to be a real insight.

So most people have to think about earning a living, and relying on any interest you have developed while at school, through hobbies or from family – science, for science, engineering, medicine for example – is about as good a guide as you can get. Being educated at university then should teach you the ability to use your mind and learn how to apply yourself to problem solving and critical analysis. So a “useful” degree from a decent institution should not tie you to a particular profession, but develop your abilities to give you choice as to where to apply them.

Some may have the luxury of studying a subject for pleasure only, with no need to worry about future job prospects and money. But for most a decent useful degree with potential financial security means they can study and develop other interests after university.

I should have mentioned the book was published in 2011.

For a very good reasoned argument on the importance of reading this from 2001 is highly entertaining. The notion that a huge number of US students avoid reading/writing is depressing. I wonder how we fare in the UK .

https://www.csun.edu/~krowlands/Content/Academic_Resources/Reading/Useful%20Articles/Cunningham-What%20Reading%20Does%20for%20the%20Mind.pdf

Yes Duncan reality only exists in the here and now. The past no longer exists and neither does the future because it never arrives so therefore doesn’t exist. Your mind has been fashioned by past experiences that no longer exist. You can’t enjoy the present if your mind is stuck in the past or is full of fear of what might happen in the future because neither the past nor the future exist as it is always now.

“Inward looking” as you so succinctly put it will provide answers but first you need to clear your mind of all its negative thoughts and allow your wholesome inner self you were born with to shine through.

Buddhism Beryl ? – woe to him who is alone, human contact is required to project yourself onto others and be projected upon to learn and so progress .Letting your inner mind go is a state of awareness of peace in your body but projecting a state of love (not physical ) towards all humanity is a state of spirit of the universal kind . We are more than a body but we are in a body suffering for our own sakes and for others ,that body is limited by time therefore space but when you die you are no longer restricted by your body so space/time do not exist. While freeing yourself from all thoughts and feelings and becoming “one ” with yourself can be mentally satisfying and calming it is transitional due to the need to live in reality and eat,sleep.work , even if you are very rich you cannot live in that world for long without it having a physical effect on you ,your body can only be denied by death. Not everybody can get themselves into that mental state , hence drugs to do it for you when a mental crisis occurs,but it is still the body, by the body,of the body ,it is not a spiritual state of total being with the universe with total understanding that doesnt happen here as it is beyond physical comprehension and therefore unacceptable. There is life after death Beryl but not in the sense we know it as here on earth.

Very sensitive and extremely touching account, DK. In the UK alone 1 in 3 will succumb to a mental illness during their lives, and so little is really understood about the causes that Psychiatrists and Therapists spend all their time trying different approaches based on theories, none of which can be proven in the scientific sense.

This is a timely intervention, in fact, since it’s highly relevant to the topic. I suspect few know about the worryingly high suicide rate amongst final year students in the Russell Group Universities. Many Universities are now reporting a 20% year-on-year rise in the numbers of students seeking counselling and individual Universities, such as Cambridge, report more than 60 suicide attempts per year, with roughly 1 in 8 being fatal. Far from being the idyllic, care-free and idle existence some would have you believe, life at any of the top UK Universities is both demanding academically and highly competitive socially.

Degrees awarded by the top Universities are valued immensely by the major employers and students are keenly aware of this, so the pressure is there to achieve. However, the same Universities are similarly anxious to ensure their degrees are valid throughout the world, so the pressure they apply is also significant and adds to the student’s own already complex emotional make-up, which can include isolation, homesickness, uncertainty, lack of self confidence and pure fear.

In a sense, this topic is predicated on a conceptual misnomer: that potential earnings are the prime consideration for the aspiring student. But NUS research has indicated that the majority of students are still uncertain about what they will eventually do, where they will eventually end up or even to what their own skills and capabilities might be most suited. And the worrying thing is that a substantial mismatch between any of those factors could be instrumental in damaging a student’s mental health.

This is a huge topic and encompasses a great deal more than simply potential earnings. Missteps can affect entire lives, and not just those of the student.

Yes Ian it is so important that students learn the possible outcome of too much critical thinking and especially students who show more prevelant right brain caring and compassionate traits. DK’s “smart (a***)” fellow bears typical psychopathic (or sociopathic if you prefer a softer approach) traits.

It’s estimated that at least 1% of the general population meets the clinical criteria for psychopathy, the prevalence of which is higher in the business world than in the general population. Figures of around 3/4% have been cited for more senior positions in business. Students need to be educated at pre university level as to what to look out for in the corporate world before embarking on career choices.

DK for a more in depth summary, log onto: en.m.wikipedia.org. – Psychopathy in the Workplace. I have a special interest in this subject as I was once married to one of these psychopathic top corporate executives. Thankfully I managed to extricate myself (with the help of a very good solicitor), from his overall dominance.

Psychopathic Beryl- not a word I would use – more like an ignorant B****rd . When I was a young boy I took that kind of thing , when I was an adult I hit back physically , when I got older I “used the head” after they were finished I politely tore them apart intellectually and boy ! they didnt like it . The smirk went off their face and they developed a grimace and then hate filled their eyes as I passed comment after comment on their intellectual capacity (on a level with an African Grey Parrot ) their “deep ” feelings for the “wellbeing ” of their fellow human beings equating it to the “tenderness” of the Marque -de-Sade that well known “humanitarian ” , to the eloquence of DR .Goebbels ,and the “enormous ” sympathy of Burk+Hare and so on . You could actually see him straining not to attack me ,feet tapping ,hands waving ,etc , enormously enjoyable —to me.

Duncan I think the head route was the wiser option. It’s helpful to be able to get inside the head of these people which gives you a far better understanding of their narcissistic and egotistic thinking patterns. For example, having done the homework it made me realise the extent of which they depend upon others to function and survive. They are to be pitied rather than resented I think, or better still avoided if at all possible.

This is the reason why I draw attention to the dangers of too much emphasis on critical thinking without the inclusion of the caring and compassionate side and the ramifications that could follow affecting so many other people unfortunate enough to come into contact with them. To aim for equilibrium when students brains are still developing would be the ideal solution I think.

It seems we are not off topic and what I thought would be my last post has in fact provoked something that in turn brings me back again
Ian, , Duncan and Beryl
Thank you very much for your thoughtful and more importantly kind comments
We took our Motorhome out around the North Coast for the first time this year as we do from time to time. . .I kind of picnic on wheels when we cannot quite get away properly
Even before returning to an additional couple of comments I was left thinking today about this

I did not think my ramblings would spark such comments. . .I actually hadnt seen them as you have and I’m glad I told the little story. . .
I was no fan of the person in question but your comments have provoked thought for me
I did not expect the B*****d, , psychopath or sociopathic comments but I have had first hand experience of narcissism
We here usually reserve the “more to be pitied than scorned” for the village idiot type’s but I do see your point Beryl, , however today I dont suffer the above people lightly or easily. . .They are pushy, ,overbearing and unlike-able nasty pieces of work. .

Thanks again everyone, , ,You have given me food for much thought

I see where Beryl is coming from when she says-“life is for living” and I wish you luck in your social philosophy which is associated with the phrase -“whats for you will not go by you ” But -sorry Beryl I am not that type of person I feel extreme anger ,not for myself but for others , because I have a built in social consciousness. I am a social; “fighter ” for the good of those downtrodden , for showing up organizations ,government lies, for trying to make this world a better place for the poor/sick /old and those socially pressurised to accept a state of existence that goes against all human rights values , all attacks on the innate goodness in a lot of people to turn this society into hard-nosed unfeeling-uncaring -robot existence of-work-die and think yourself lucky because that is philosophical slavery of the mind as well as the body . Saying -“thats the way of the world” , cuts no ice with me because it isnt the good way , but accepting evil and living with it . You do not realise that even in old age I still have a huge fire burning inside of me to see social justice and world peace but I am up against governments and power ,do I give in —never ! not as long as I have one breath left in my body. I was put here for a purpose and I intend to fulfill it.

Anyone planning to go to university has access to a wide range of sources of information and plenty of opportunities to attend open days. Universities compete with each other to market their degree courses. Social media and online forums allow prospective students to gain informal advice from past and present students. The National Student provides useful statistics and written feedback from students, though only the universities get to see the individual comments.

With successive governments pushing more people into higher education, a significant proportion of students
are not motivated, whatever the degree course. Some would get a lot more out of an apprenticeship or other vocational training. Another problem is the introduction of tuition fees has led to students doing paid work when they should be working together with their fellow students, which is an important part of their education. It’s not all negative because work experience can greatly improve interpersonal skills, which will be important during their working life and to perform well when being interviewed for jobs.

I helped out with open days and interviewing prospective students and those thinking about future career prospects were mainly those with parents in education, who had been primed to ask questions. In fact I don’t recall ever being asked about salary prospects.

I remember receiving careers advice from the history teacher at school. His ignorance about degree opportunities in science was matched only by my achievements in his history classes. Fortunately, my uncle, who was principal of a technical college was able to provide me with very useful advice and some books. My top priorities were a career in science and good job opportunities. I don’t remember if prospective salaries were mentioned. In fact money has never been an important consideration in my working life.

Duncan I admire your tenacity and the fact that you have a real purpose in your life, that’s very positive and I wish you success in all your endeavours.

People, on the other hand, have a duty to first put their own house in order before embarking on projects appertaining to social justice. If anger motivates you then that is your way of coping with life’s discriminatory unfairness, but anger is a negative emotion and although releasing it can relieve you of some of the pain and discomfort within, it can cause more harm to other people and is therefore extremely counter productive. Visible acts of kindness can set a good example and provide positive help to those who may be experiencing hard times, which everyone does at some time in their lives. Social justice is an extremely wide topic and there are people in society who continue to exploit it, to the detriment of those in real need and so authoritive governing bodies, love ’em or hate ’em, intervene in an attempt to re-establish fair play.

Our culture has become a very throw away materialistic society and the gap between the have’s and have not’s becomes ever wider as time passes. We need to develop a more collective mentality and help each other more during times of need. There are still many silent altruistic people who go about their lives dedicated to the welfare of others and expect nothing in return except the pleasure they receive from giving of themselves to those less fortunate.

We cannot rely on the State to provide all societies needs as this creates a dependency and expectation that is hard to break. Young people have inherited what the older generation has bestowed upon them and so I can only repeat that which I have said many times before that they need to focus on what their conscience dictates to build a fairer and more caring society without the pressure of parental expectation and choose a degree that provides satisfaction and fulfillment,. That alone will most likely provide the money they require to live happy and contented lives.