Legal advice: seller takes back promise to refund faulty car

I agree, Malcolm, although I have noticed that in our area some dealerships for high-end motors do occasionally offer exceptional, almost classic, cars in very good condition both inside the saloon and under the bonnet. There does seem to be a market for these among the affluent retired. There seem to be very few Arthur Daley’s left these days and the internet has replaced the used car lot with your next car delivered in a van [Cazoo]. There are still quite a few big used-car sites on the ring roads with their flags flying and the hatches hanging open in the air [why?] but I have no idea how good they are for fair trading and customer service .

With so many used cars up for sale, this ought to be a buyers’ market. However that probably also means that used cars businesses striving to give competitive prices and yet still make a profit will have to pare the costs of inspection and servicing right back to the bone.

These days, I think most cars are very reliable, but, for a low risk purchase, it think it still generally pays to do your homework and then look for a nice low mileage example.

You also need to be careful with your choice of car servicing outlets. I used to have a nice Fiesta, that was ruined by Halfords, after they had talked me into letting them change its water pump, as pre-emptive maintenance.

If a water pump is driven by the timing belt it can be worth changing the water pump when the belt is replaced because if the pump seizes it can wreck the engine.

Indeed but I would recommend that only competent mechanics should be allowed to tackle such work. In my case, I think the muppets at Halfords warped my rocker box cover and caused a persistent oil leak.

The service history will show this. Best to ensure all these documents are available when choosing a vehicle. Buying without evidence of how a car has been looked after is taking an unnecessary risk. If you are intent on buying a vehicle without evidence of a timing belt change then get it done straight away.

The service booklet should show if a timing belt has been changed, but if hand-written it can be changed. My garage gave me separate evidence of when this was done and that will be given to whoever buys the car.

Hi clondon48

Welcome to Which? Conversation.

As you have discovered ordinary posters cannot start new topics here, but can start threads within topics.

I’m not a Beetle expert, so I assume by 66 you mean your car was made in 1966 rather than that being some kind of model number.

If so, the age of your car will be a complicating factor in your case, because work to repair or restore such old vehicles can readily snowball, as each problem fixed leads to the discovery of yet more work to do.

It is also unusual to rely on such a vehicle as essential transport. Most owners only use such vehicles as recreational items. That said, an old friend of mine did use an old Moggie Minor as his only car for many years. He carried out a lot of work himself, but also had a certain local garage who helped with other jobs.

In general, if it is important to keep a car in use, a time and cost estimate should always be prepared and accepted before any garage is set to work on one’s vehicle.

If such a step was taken in your case, then the garage has clearly failed to meet their obligations under any resulting verbal contract, so you should be entitled to compensation.

For a complicated case like this, you may find that it is worth subscribing to Which? Legal, so they help you as required.

You can submit a proposal under the “Community” tab “your ideas” but this seems to receive little attention. You could also email Which? through the “contact us” link at the bottom of the page.

I’d suggest you ask Which? Legal about your car issue.

Hello and welcome to Which? Convo.

You were right to contact Citizens Advice, but they will not help you negotiate an outcome. If you want personal help you could join Which? Legal: https://legalservice.which.co.uk

Many businesses closed in March and if the garage has had an employee with coronavirus, then it’s hardly surprising that they have been cautious. That does not explain the unreasonable delay between August and February. Perhaps it would be best to focus on this.

Many small businesses do not run their own websites and I have seen local examples of websites showing businesses open when I know they were closed.

The fact that you have paid for insurance while you have not had your car might not be considered relevant if the case went to court. When negotiating with the garage it’s best to be realistic about your expectations and it seems unlikely that you will get a full refund.

If the garage is a member of any trade body you could contact them for advice and let them know that one of their members is not performing well.

Unless there is a gearbox fault, the jobs you have described seem straightforward as long as the gearbox is not faulty. If you are going to run a car that is over 50 years old it might be worth learning to do jobs for yourself. These cars are not complicated and there are plenty of enthusiasts who can offer advice.

Best of luck.

I remember reading your previous request for advice which was in the “Do You Know Your Consumer Rights?” Conversation – probably the most appropriate place as it happens. See – https://conversation.which.co.uk/shopping/consumer-rights-complaints-faulty-problems/#comment-1602117

No one responded, probably because it is a particularly tricky question and no one had a straightforward answer to your dilemma. If none of the usual contributors [who are not Which? staff] can comment it gets left on the side and ultimately ignored I am afraid. We have no remedy for that, unfortunately. Sometimes it might get picked up by one of the lawyers in the Which? Legal service but they rarely give detailed legal advice on a particular problem as it would usually involve finding out a lot more information than is provided by the enquirer in an initial comment. Understandably, they will not usually go beyond giving general information on the law and how it might apply in the particular case because their formal function is to provide bespoke legal advice to members of the Which? Legal service for which there is a membership fee and a subscription [see Wavechange’s comment immediately above].

I cannot add anything to the guidance offered already by Derek, Malcolm and Wavechange. You probably would benefit from legal advice and action if the likely outcome is worth the cost, but the one thing it will not do is get your car back in your hands any sooner or compensate you for the value of the excess time lost while it was under repair [and that itself is a matter for argument].

If I were in your shoes I would persist in pressing your garage to finish all essential work on the car as quickly as possible, see what they can do to reduce the cost of the work done so far, and return the car to your possession without further delay. Do try to keep relations between you and the garage amicable even though they have clearly let you down. You could argue for ever over the finer details of all the points you have mentioned but ultimately for no guaranteee of satisfaction. You have acted diligently in trying to keep the pressure on the company throughout the period but they have failed to respond; that could be an indicator of how things would go if you forced them into a legal action during which your car would still be in their hands.

It is not a nice situation and I am sorry there is not a textbook exit from it that will give you an adequate remedy.

clondon48

You should have been offered a courtesy car by the garage carrying out the repair to your Beetle as it took such a long time – even discounting COVID-19.

If your car was being used by the garage to carry out their business, that would be considered unreasonable by the ombudsman who would take the following into consideration:

Delays to repairs
Quality of work carried out
Further damage caused during repair
Lack of courtesy vehicle
The decision to repair instead of writing-off the vehicle

Check out this website before you take any further action:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk – Vehicle Repairs – Financial Ombudsman Service – 12th June 2020

Hi Seán, I had to look up what you meant by those categories.

As discussed here:-https://theusedcarguy.co.uk/car-scams/sold-as-seen-we-think-not/ cars sold for road use must be road worthy.

But with a category N car, I think you must be prepared to find and repair other defects yourself.

As the car in question here seems to be in very poor condition, I suggest you pursue a full refund.

Sean – You have not stated how much you paid for the used car or what age and model it was. That does have a bearing on what you are entitled to expect in terms of its condition and the performance of features that are not critical to its roadworthiness.

I think overall it could successfully be argued that the car is not ‘as described’, mainly on the grounds that several defects not apparent when looking at it and on a brief road test were not mentioned or – in your view – reflected in the price. In other words, it was presented as being in satisfactory condition for its price. On that basis I agree with Derek and suggest you seek a full refund.

You wrote that the cruise control was one of the selling points; did you mean that the dealer advertised or presented that feature, or did you mean that it was one of your buying criteria that you had specifically stated? In either case that strengthens your claim for a refund on the ‘not as described’ grounds set out in the Consumer Rights Act.