Best comments: Are you for or against speed cameras?

But fixed speed cameras have Speed Limit signs well in front – and camera icons in front of them – they are highly visible – and have white markers shortly afterwards and well visible *before* you pass the camera. They *are * placed at a “reasonable distance to enable the offender to attain the correct speed without causing an accident” That’s why they are there..

The trouble is speeding motorists do not bother to see them – and are caught – *then* complain!!!

Speeding motorists *should* be punished – Hence fixed speed cameras must stay.

Graham,

I can only say that ALL speed cameras I’ve passed ever since they were first installed however long ago that was – were all preceded by speed limit indicators and normally camera signs.

However some can be obscured by large lorries that drivers tend to drive too close so obscuring their vision – or – a tree foliage has very rarely temporarily obscured it.

But there are no speed cameras that precede the statuary speed signs – What too many drivers want is constant reminders that they are breaking the speed limit. The responsibility of the driver is to be aware – at all times – what the speed limit actually is AND what speed they are going. Then they won’t break the law..

Again sorry but if you ignore speed signs you are to blame – there does not have to be repeater signs – drivers are expected to have working memories while driving.

Cameras must stay.

@Richard
What about drivers that are unfamiliar with an area, it is like running the gauntlet.
I’m beginning to hate this country, it appears to be full of pontificating t***s and sucking the life out of the wallets of hard working people.

If speed limits were set at a sensible rate, then there would be nearly 100% compliance.
How many times have you seen people applying the brakes at speed camera sites when they were already travelling at the correct speed for fear of being prosecuted by faulty equipment? What effect does this have on traffic especially during busy times? Traffic backs up for miles and people are at a standstill further back spewing out noxious fumes and damaging the environment needlessly. Speed cameras are a scourge.
Dangerous driving I am in favour of prosecuting.

[Edited by moderators: profanity]

You’re actually doing 60 MPH as the speedometer always reads low.
Thank you for unnecessarily blocking up Britain’s roads.

But the problem is that people are complaining that because they have been caught by a speed camera – the speed camera must go – not the same thing at all.

I have exceeded the speed limit when going downhill – but never in the vicinity of the highly visible speed camera.

Even if I had I wouldn’t complain about it – but pay up for breaking the law.

Pay up?????
Show me the victim of the “crime” first….

You should inform the local highway authority that the speed limit signs are obscured by foliage and they should then have the vegetation cut back.

I don’t think you will have any luck persuading the police to review the case although they should review the enforcement practice to make sure [and prove with photographic or video evidence on the day] that any speed limit signs are visible before operating the camera. They will probably argue that there are other ways of knowing that the road is subject to a 30 mph speed limit and that the signs in question are only repeater signs in a continuous 30 mph zone. Speed cameras are not positioned to record speeds at the point of entry to a zone from a section with a higher limit so there must have been earlier speed limit indications.

Hi Nigel – Many years ago I received a NIP for turning left at a no-left turn sign at night. There was no road marking and the only indication was an illuminated sign that was not lit. I sent a letter to explain and that was accepted.

If I’m driving in an unfamiliar area I switch on the sat-nav to alert me if I’m exceeding the speed limit. As John says, there are other clues but the sat-nav makes life easy.

My licence was endorsed for doing 38 on a 30 mph dual carriageway, in the days before speed awareness courses. 🙁

If offered a speed awareness course to avoid a penalty and licence points when ‘caught’ outside their home county, can the driver require transfer of their attendance to a venue in their own area? Otherwise it would be jolly inconvenient to get a ticket in Cornwall or Cumbria. I am not sure that all police forces offer the courses.

Another possibility in a case like Nigel’s is that the speed limit signs are visible at 30 mph but difficult to see at higher speeds; I hope the police would not seek to rely on such an argument in order to justify their enforcement.

At the entry to a speed-limited section of road, but not necessarily at a point within it where a repeater sign is placed, there should be a sign on each side of the road.

In Norfolk, there are often camera enforcement signs but no speed limit signs to remind drivers of the prevailing speed limit; this is sometimes in places where the National Speed Limit [NSL] applies. There are also sections of rural A roads where street lights have been erected at close intervals through villages and inhabited sections and on the approaches to junctions but no [NSL] signs have been installed on any of the street lighting columns. No one is at risk of getting a ticket but it doesn’t make for stress-free motoring if there is uncertainty.

John – Regarding changing the venue of speed awareness courses it does seem to be possible but a fee will apply: https://www.drivetech.co.uk/driver-awareness-courses/terms-conditions-national

“How do I book a speed awareness course?
Once you have received a Notice of Intended Prosecution from the police, you will need to accept the offer of a course and return the form within the time limit stated on your letter. The letter will tell you which organisation is providing courses in your area, and how to book online. You’ll receive a confirmation email with details and how to get to the location.”

Course are offered nationwide and you have a choice of venue; you just book a convenient one online.

Thanks, Wavechange and Malcolm. Things have obviously moved on since my wife attended a course a few years ago. It was run by a retired police officer of the Norfolk Constabulary. Luckily it took place in our home town at the time even though the offence occurred 50 miles away in the west of the county. I think it was a two-day course but some drivers did not take it seriously and did not complete it.

Hi John. Thanks for your comments. The actual hidden signs were the first advising reduction from a 40 into a 30. There was a painted sign on the road but the instructor on the awareness course did advise that the upright speed limit signs are the ones that should be clear as they are the legal part of the speed limit. Amazingly about two weeks after this happened the hedges on one side were cleared. It annoys me that the police operative had insisted that everything was in order before setting up according to the police complaints department.

I sympathise with your argument and, if the legal signs were obstructed, would expect a court to quash the conviction. If you were a celebrity you would no doubt hire a lawyer to get you off the hook.

However, from a moral point of view you seem aware that you were entering a 30 m/h limit, as advised by the painted sign on the road, and you have admitted to 38m/h so perhaps I’d give in gracefully as you were very lucky to be offered a speed awareness course for that excessive speed. No points, presumably no insurance premium consequences. Sigh of relief.

Nigel – I should be surprised if the location set up for the speed enforcement camera complied with the relevant code of practice if it was aimed at catching drivers going from a 40 mph section into a 30 mph zone. There needs to be an overlap for drivers to adjust to the lower limit. There is a built-in tolerance for speed enforcement because vehicle speed recorders and the camera units themselves are not 100% reliable. The same principle should apply to transition into lower speed limit sections of highway. To gain trust, the law – and its enforcement – have to be reasonable. Based on what you have said the camera operative failed to act correctly in checking that the applicable speed limit signs were fully visible from approaching traffic and your annoyance is justified; perhaps he or she was under the mistaken impression that the painted roundel on the carriageway was sufficient. Maybe they should also attend the awareness course.

I agree with malcolm’s comment above. Over the course of my driving career, I have copped a total of two speeding fines and – more recently – one awareness course. That time, I was very grateful to have the option of doing the course, as opposed to a fine and an endorsement.

Only just caught up with things after a couple of days away.

If the 30 signs on entry to the zone are badly obscured – where there are one each side and where speed limit changes as opposed to the repeaters in the 30 zone – then the zone is – in theory – unenforceable. Were it me, I’d plead not guilty and look forward to my day in court. However, the stakes are high. If one goes to court and gets found guilty, instead of tens of pounds it’s hundreds.

Assemble your evidence – take the photograph – within 50 yards of the signs – and show that the signs on entry to the zone are obscured.

The other galling thing with this lark is, if you win, you are not awarded your own costs unless you use a solicitor – which of course raises the ante if you lose. That aspect is totally unfair.

Might be difficult to get in front of a bench where none of the justices had had a speeding ticket and had to pay a fine. In days gone by,. when the magistrates knew all the constables personally and before camera enforcement, I should imagine recorded road traffic offences were so much fewer.

This is why i did not opt for a court hearing as i don’t trust the magistrate to be impartial . The court systems at the moment doesn’t seem fit for purpose. I just want to make people aware that these mobile speed camera operatives need to be accountable for their mistakes and sometimes the police need to grow a pair and admit in this case that there were errors instead of supporting the fraud.

A lot of A roads are still single-carriageway and many have ribbons of housing along them. There is a conflict between the needs of local residents who want a safe road along which they can walk, go to school, cross to the other side conveniently and do their shopping, and the drivers who just need to get from A to B with the least delay. Local councils are under enormous pressure to reduce speed limits on specific sections of many main roads and in general I trust their judgment where they have introduced restrictions. Cars, after all, have improved beyond recognition in my lifetime in terms of passenger safety, acceleration, efficiency, ease of driving and comfort, so it is not unreasonable for motorists to accept the occasional reduction in speed limits over sections, especially when the highway either side of such constrictions has often been improved, widened, and made suitable for higher speeds. We are all pedestrians sometimes; thankfully most drivers are conscientious and considerate so the small number who are not deserve to be apprehended.

I have the impression that more drivers than ever stick to speed limits. I certainly do by routinely using the speed limiter on my newer car; head-up display is also a good way of keeping an eye on speed without the distraction of taking your eyes off the road. Maybe this is what others now do?

The speed awareness course does drive home the much higher impact damage – to people – if you have to stop quickly and don’t manage it well enough…. because you are a few m/h over the limit.

I have to be careful in my older cars, on their fairly rare excursions, to remember to keep a close eye on the speedometer.

As Vynor says, average speed cameras do prevent speeding and distinguish between those determined to speed and those who accidentally do for a short time.

I respect the importance of controlling speed, the main exception being 20mph limits that are in force outside schools in the middle of the night.

A lot of damage can be done even if you stick to the speed limit. Last night I hit a large dog, which ran in front of my car. The owner was very apologetic and the dog seemed OK, but it died soon after it was taken to the vet. I’m not looking forward to getting back behind the wheel.

My condolences to you for a truly awful experience that I’m sure you didn’t deserve. It could happen to any of us… wrong place, wrong time.

My sympathies, Wavechange. Hitting something on the road is a terrible experience and it’s difficult to avoid feeling some sense of personal responsibility. Was it necessary to report the accident to the police?

There seem to be no clear rules on the type of road where a dog must be on a lead. I remember when young seeing signs on lamp-posts but haven’t seen one for years. Perhaps there is no rule, but it is a wise precaution for the sake of all involved. It’s bad enough with uncontrollable cats darting across the road.

Even in towns in Norfolk you can unexpectedly come across ducks, deer, chickens, foxes, pheasants, and – strangest of all – peacocks.

Most roads in Norwich are 20 mph max speed so there is no need for additional restrictions near schools. Compliance seems quite good without the need for speed humps, chicanes, and other obstacles. Every road has small speed limit signs, even our 100 yard cul-de-sac!

Thanks Vynor and John. Apparently the dog had slipped its lead and the new owners had been trying to catch it, possibly for hours.

I knew that injuries to dogs (but not cats) must be reported to the police, but when I called the non-emergency number (101) I could not get through, even though I have unlimited inclusive calls on my mobile tariff. I had blocked additional charges to prevent going over my monthly 5GB data allowance when tethering my laptop but unwittingly had also prevented myself making a 15p call to the police. It was a mile from home so I returned there and called from the landline. I have since changed the settings on the mobile. I will check that it works when I update the police to inform them that the animal has died. My insurance company wants contact details to confirm that the animal was running free but I was not prepared to provide the dog owner’s phone number without permission.

Bad luck, Wave; I can imagine hitting a dog is particularly traumatic. It was bad enough when I mowed down a rabbit.

Thanks Ian. The dog had been been given to the RSPCA by an old chap and put into foster care of someone who promptly let it escape – it had no collar. The woman who trying to catch it was a relative of the previous owner and very apologetic even though it was not her fault. There have been calls to reduce the speed limit on the road from 40 to 30mph because cattle have been injured and occasionally killed.

So sorry to read this, Wave. It is traumatic to say the least.

Touching wood, I have never had any encounters with quadrupeds on the road. A partridge (I think) did bounce off the windscreen of a granada I was ferrying back along the M1 once at, er, about 69.9999 back in the early eighties, took me unawares and I felt fortunate at the time that it never came through the screen such was the sound.

Thanks Roger. I did once despatch a greater spotted woodpecker that flew into the windscreen while I was on a country lane. Sad but less traumatic.

I’m sure I was not exceeding 40 when I hit the dog because I’d just been over a cattle grid – a predecessor of speed humps and bumps. Alongside is a good collection of wheel trims. My car suffered a broken headlight cover and a cracked ‘bumper’ and has gone to the menders.