Complain for change: ever appealed a parking ticket?

I presume you have to get a 2-hour pay-&-display ticket for no charge in order to indicate the time when your use of the car park commenced. If the signage was inadequate that could help you. The Council will defend its ticket but it’s worth giving them a call and listening to their response. Your shopping receipt will show the approximate time you returned to your vehicle but did you keep a note or some evidence of the actual time you parked your car? Without that I wouldn’t rate your chances highly unless there is an outbreak of compassion.

I’ve just done something similar, Parked my car in a car park I had never been in before, it said 2hrs free parking. Being a bit rushed I didn’t see the very small sign that said I needed to display a ticket. Anyway I parket my car at 8:50, returned at 10:15, found a ticket on the windscreen timed at 9:03. The car park only starts charging from 8:00 so given the ticket was slapped on at 9:03 I hope common sense will prevail as I wasn’t even parked there for the 2hrs, but I know what these pedants are like!

I thought there was supposed to be a five-minute observation period to ensure the vehicle was actually parked and unattended rather than stopped for a legitimate reason like mechanical defect or road safety. Certainly worth challenging that ticket. I can’t understand why a photograph was necessary at all – it cannot justify the parking ticket, and nor can the parking enforcement officer probably.

It seems to me that NHS trusts have realised that profits from parking can subsidise their services, so they outsource parking management and enforcement to the highest bidder. That in itself might not be a bad thing but they have not necessarily ensured that the hospital parking scheme which they arre responsible for is fair, reasonable, equitable and properly applied. The trusts could, if they chose to, make the conditions more tolerant on overstaying for short periods, parking slightly outside a bay, and on payment and penalty arrangements. They seem to be disinclined to so because such measures impact on the profitability of the scheme – or so they are told by the parking management companies that bid for the contracts. Having let a parking management contract, probably to the firm that promises to give them the most income, that firm then has to make sure it achieves a high enough income from parking charges and fines to be able to afford to pay the trust what it has promised, so a degree of ruthless pursuit of income ensues. It is highly likely that companies have over-promised in order to get their hands on these lucrative contracts. I also feel that hospital visiting is seen as as an exploitable revenue stream.

Having built mega-hospitals in out-of-town locations and often with very extensive catchment areas to then penalise patients and their carers for driving to them and having to park there seems to be a highly questionable stance for an NHS trust. In many cases there is no alternative but to use the hospital car parks; patients need to get to the hospital early for their appoinments so often need to park for much longer than their consultation time would suggest; appointments are often running late so over-staying in the car park might be unavoidable; and parking difficulties are an additional stress factor that makes the experiece of going to hospital or visiting patients unnecessarily fraught. I am aware that season tickets and free passes might be available for people requiring regular out-patient attendance but many people either do not know about them or have got bigger things to worry about.

I don’t think you will get very far with these arguments. It is not obligatory to use a hospital car park and many people don’t even have a car.

I believe that we should push for car parks where you pay on departure, so that there is no possibility of an overstaying penalty. It can be difficult to predict how long you might have to wait to be seen for an outpatient appointment, for example. Parking charges should also be reasonable.

I agree that it is not obligatory to use a hospital car park but the alternatives might be far worse. Conditions in rural areas obviously will be different to those in urban areas. The main hospital for Norfolk is located a considerable distance outside Norwich and a long way from other towns. There are no alternative parking possibilities closer than a mile from the hospital entrance. There are buses from Norwich railway station and from the city centre so people coming in from rural areas might be able to manage it by public transport but the time and difficulties [and discomfort] involved could be considerable. There are voluntary car schemes for patients and there is an NHS patient transport service that operates like a bus service picking people up from their homes on a circuit and returning them later.

The hospital is enormous and the statistics are awesome.with over 6,500 staff plus 600 volunteers, 27 operating theatres, and over half a million outpatient appointments a year. As well as patient arrivals there are 2,800 visitors a day. The transport logistics are impressive with 210 buses arriving each day and with parking for 2,800 cars of which 850 are for patients and visitors [though it’s a lengthy hike from some of the outlying spaces]. To its credit the hospital does a good job managing all this but there is criticism of the car parking arrangements in terms of both adequacy and management although I am not aware of any complaints about enforcement. The weekday charges are: <3 hrs £2; <4 hrs £4; 5 hrs+ £6 [all stays under 30 minutes are free]. You get a ticket on entering the car park, pay for it on leaving the hospital building, and insert it into the exit control on leaving the car park. Out-patient appointments exceeding 3 hours can be validated by the clinic for the minimum charge of £2.00. So the arrangements here seem fair and reasonable. Obviously other NHS trusts act differently and there have been questions in Parliament about some in other parts of the country where the whole car parking operation has been externalised. The Lichfield hospital that Best Speaker wrote about has numerous complaints on its website about the car parking there and about ParkingEye in particular. I think on balance we in Norfolk have very little to complain about because the hospital itself is superb once you've got there. There are satellite hospitals on the west coast and east coast of Norfolk to serve people in those areas.

I like that guidance, in particular –

• NHS organisations are responsible for the actions of private contractors who run car parks on their behalf.
• NHS organisations should act against rogue contractors in line with the relevant codes of practice where applicable.
• Contracts should not be let on any basis that incentivises additional charges, eg ‘income from parking charge notices only’.

Compliance with the guidance varies around the country and presumably relies on ‘friends’ and patient groups to keep their hospital up to the mark. I guess it’s a long time since the hospital management read those guidelines in some cases.

I agree with you about having a pay-later facility for people going to A&E if they don’t have the right money with them. Not everyone remembers to keep a tin of loose change in their vehicle, especially in areas where paying for parking is not commonplace.

The big bone of contention seems to be rapacious enforcement by contractors and it is good to see that NHS hospitals cannot shirk their overall responsibility merely by contracting out the parking arrangements.

I am very much in favour of an investigation of hospital parking provision and charges, John. The NHS should lay down the rules under with parking is operated and there should be penalties for contractors that fail to comply with the rules.

I don’t think off-street parking provided by employers is taxable as a benefit in kind, Malcolm, and I wouldn’t advocate it for hospital staff. I think a number of local authorities have been thinking of taxing employers’ private car parks [Nottingham comes to mind in order to pay for tramway extensions] but I am not aware of any that have actually got the legislation and done it. It would probably just be another cost on employers and drive them out of town.

I don’t disagree John – I was just musing on other cynical ways of increasing income from a captive audience. When many qualify for free prescriptions it seems odd we then charge them – slightly indirectly – for visiting a hospital.

It might be worth challenging the parking ticket although you would lose the opportunity to pay the penalty charge at the discounted rate. You could challenge it on the grounds that you were unfamiliar with the parking arrangements around the dental surgery, that you were in pain and that available parking space was too far away, and that it was a medical emergency. These are not strong grounds and you need to be careful not to overplay your hand – you were obviously not in such pain that you could not drive the car safely. Essentially you would be seeking a compassionate response. Personally, I would pay the penalty immediately at the lower rate available for a limited period, regard it as a price worth paying to get your toothache treated, and then move on.

If your vehicle extends beyond the bay you can receive a ticket, and I very much doubt that you would have a valid claim.

It seems that there are different sized parking bays for vans etc. Information from: http://www.planningni.gov.uk/downloads/parking-standards.pdf

Car 2.4 metres x 4.8 metres
Light Vans 2.4 metres x 5.5 metres

On that basis, you probably should not be park in a normal car parking bay. Having driven minibuses occasionally, I have wondered about the rules.

The whole body of the vehicle has to fit within the parking bay, not just the wheelbase, so in giving the other van driver a bit of room to work from the back of his vehicle you penalised yourself. I don’t think you’ll get any sympathy if you challenge the parking penalty so it’s probably best to pay it quickly at the discounted rate. A tip for next time you find yourself in that situation – go out later to check the availability of space and reposition the van if possible. You have to get up early to beat thes patking enforcers – they even go around at night time in big towns and cities checking for vehicles parked on yellow lines and in loading bays.

Vicky – You have challed the parking ticket with Redbridge Council and your challenge has been rejected So immediately take it further to the parking appeals tribunal [the Council should have told you how to do that] and repeat the evidence you have posted here. What you have said here is clear enough for this purpose and you don’t need to dress it up any further. The Council will have to state their justification for issuing the ticket and the likelihood is they will concede.

kate, if it was a local authority car park I’d expect it to be looked at sympathetically. I’d suggest you send a photocopy of both badges with your letter but pursue it if necessary to adjuducation.
I find it immoral to impose full parking penalties when you have made a genuine mistake, as here, or if for example you’ve bought a ticket but it is face down or fallen on the floor. At worst, an admin charge should be imposed.
If it was a private car park then assume they simply want an excuse to take money. However, Barry Beavis’s case is likely to be resolved in the next few months; you could point this out as it concerns excessive charges and withhold payment until it is resolved.
However, Which? legal may take another view.

Kate – All you can do is to write a nice letter and hope that you will be lucky, because you have not complied with the rules for parking. Marks and Spencer has put a ticket machine at a small supermarket I visit occasionally. Parking is free for an hour but you do have to display a ticket. I have heard of people being charged for not displaying tickets for free parking, so I’m very careful.

Were you entitled to park on a disabled space and forgot your blue badge? If not, you took a space that is designed to make a disabled person’s problems easier – a bigger space to open doors fully, room to get a wheelchair to the door, nearer the shops. A penalty is then quite justified in the hope you will not deprive someone in need in future.

Otherwise if you forgotten to display a blue badge the parking attendant could not know you were disabled. You could try an appeal.

All car parks – certainly council ones – should allow say 10 minutes of free parking for someone who just nips to the shops to get a paper or a bottle of milk say; many in our area do. You would still need to collect a free ticket to show how long you had been there when an attendant checks.