/ Money

Stop charging loyal customers more to call your company!

You asked us to name and shame the big companies that use expensive phone numbers and praise the ones that don’t. So we’ve done just that for banks, insurers and energy providers.

Being loyal to a company can be an expensive business. For example, we see our savings rates dwindle if we’re not prepared to switch banks regularly.

To make matters worse, our latest investigation found that many banks, insurers and energy companies are charging existing customers a premium to call them, while reserving 0800 numbers – free to call from landlines – for potential new customers.

I shouldn’t be surprised. My colleague Cathy Neal identified the same issue when she looked at bank phone numbers last July. In fact, we expanded our investigation into other areas thanks to your suggestions on Which? Conversation. Topher asked:

‘How about a Which? article which names and shames the bad organisations, and praises the good ones with free or geographic numbers?’

So, in response to your suggestions, we looked specifically at the numbers provided for new customers, existing customers and for making complaints for 34 energy providers, banks and insurers. And here’s what we found (click on the gallery images to enlarge – we’ve also included a table for landline vs mobile call costs):

[nggallery id=1]

It’s not so straightforward…

Commenter Topher also suggested a colour code – red for bad, green for good. Unfortunately, the situation isn’t as black and white (or red and green) as we might like.

For instance, we found that the Bank of Scotland and Direct Line use 0844 and 0845 numbers across the board. But is this better or worse than Churchill, HSBC, Natwest/RBS and Scottish Power and the like, which use 0800 for new customers and 0845 for existing ones? We asked the latter group the reasons for these discrepancies, but received no satisfactory answers.

I also wonder, is an 0800 number better than an 01 or 02 number, considering that 0800 numbers can be expensive from mobiles while many landline packages tend to include free calls to 01 and 02 numbers?

Just to throw another spanner in the works, those much-hated 0845 numbers are at least as cheap to call (sometimes cheaper) than 01 or 02 numbers from a BT landline at peak times. So it’s no small wonder that 86% of Which? Convo readers professed to being confused by the cost of 08 numbers.

Fair and square

A couple of companies in our investigation stood out as worthy of particular praise. For example, energy companies Npower and Ovo Energy offer many of their customers a choice of 0800 and 01 or 03 numbers; a win-win for landline and mobile users alike.

If a company insists on using 0844 or 0845 numbers, in terms of fairness I prefer the non-discriminatory approach – it just seems unfair to make loyal customers pay more than new ones. I’d like to see more companies treating all their customers well by adopting freephone or lower-cost numbers across the board.

Comments
Linda says:
15 October 2012

The worst is the government, they use 0845 numbers for their helplines, particularly – it seems – to penalise the poor even more – such as working tax credits and carer’s allowance

araba says:
18 October 2012

I tried to contact a government agency today and this is the number I have to call 0903 1240 015
Its not fair when you pay your taxes etc and government agencies then charge you premium rates for information. What is the money used for? Aren’t these officials paid with government money for which we contribute?
Everybody is ripping us off. What has the world come to?

I probably wouldn’t mind an 0844 number but an 09etc number is not acceptable. This is day light robbery.

Calls from BT landlines are charged at £1.53 per call and £1.53 per minute or part thereafter. Calls from mobiles and other networks may cost considerably more

Dave Lindsay says:
18 October 2012

araba: I think that you will find that this 0903 number is not provided by the “government agency” in question, but has been set-up by a third party.

araba says:
18 October 2012

Below are some of the most popular government organisations. Use the links to access phone numbers, addresses and opening hours.

Calls from BT landlines are charged at £1.53 per call and £1.53 per minute or part thereafter. Calls from mobiles and other networks may cost considerably more.

Can anyone respond as to why government agencies are using these numbers.

[Hello Araba, we have removed the phone numbers from your comment for fear that they are fake. Thanks, mods.]

Dave Lindsay says:
18 October 2012

araba: As per my posting above. These bodies haven’t set-up these numbers; they have likely been set-up by another party and the only reason I can think of that anyone would do this is so as to receive revenue payments from calls.

@araba;
Just picking one at random
DVLA Vehicle Enquiries
they use an 0300 number see

http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/contactus/vehicles_enquiries.aspx

I suspect as Dave has mentioned you’ve found someone’s web page pointing you to expensive 0903 numbers which will probably just divert you to the right number.

Only get details from legit websites. Were did you get those numbers from ?

And I can’t for a moment believe the government would be helpful enough to set up a site listing contact numbers for all their agencies, that’ll be too helpful.

If you’re using govhelp dot co dot uk, you’ve been scammed.

All searches on google etc should show direct.gov.uk or now http://www.gov.uk for legit UK government websites

araba

You have been scammed, and sadly anyone who uses the information in your message, now published by Which?, would be also.

I have “reported” your comment to the conversation editors as follows:

“This message quotes the content of a fraudulent web page, in good faith. If Which? is to continue to publish this detail, the actual numbers should be obscured in some way or it be made absolutely clear that this is improper information.

I am sure that Which? would not wish to be responsible for someone calling one of the these improper numbers in error.”

Please understand that I intend no criticism of yourself by “reporting” your comment.

The govhelp dot co dot uk website has against each entry

The information provided is also available free of charge from the original site on this URL

with the URL being a link to the correct ( well the ones I looked at )

Eric says:
20 October 2012

In all these technical discussions, we seem to have forgotten that Consumers’ Association is STILL printing the “for profit” numbers in Which? magazine.

It would give a strong message to vendors if those who offer 0800 or 01/02/03 had their numbers printed in the magazine, but those profiteering had only “semi-premium rate number” shown. They’d soon realize that the profit on the phone calls was outweighed by potential loss of sales, and change their practices.

Satish says:
28 October 2012

It would be much better if the companies and government departments etc all stop using 0844, 0870 etc numbers and revert to simple geographic numbers. very simple but likely to work!

This is actually simpler than some may think.

There are genuine reasons for using a non-geographic number, if offering a “national” service, or wishing to use the technical benefits which they offer (e.g. sharing calls across call centres).

This is why we now have the 03 range, which provides these benefits, but costs no more to call than a geographic number. This applies to landlines, mobiles and payphones, and also where geographic numbers are included in an inclusive package or bundle.

Those who need a non-geographic number should move to 03, which is made easy because the 034/037 equivalent of all 084/087 numbers is reserved for this purpose.

**
Two forthcoming events will add to the pressure to do this:
**
• Many users will be subject to implementation of the Consumer Rights Directive, which will ban use of numbers that cost more than the geographic rate for enquiries from customers. A consultation on this ends this week – see http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/uploads/1/1/4/5/11456053/consultation_on_proposal_to_ban_use_of_ripoff_telephone_numbers_closes_on_1_november.pdf.

• Ofcom will shortly be announcing the detail of the rules which will require all users of expensive numbers to declare their “Service Charge”. Also telephone companies will have to declare the “Access Charge” which they add to calls to expensive numbers. See – http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/ofcom-reform-of-non-geographic-numbers.html.

One hopes that HMRC and the DWP will not choose to retain their 0845 numbers and announce that calls to enquire about tax or benefits are subject to a Service Charge of 2p per minute, plus whatever additional premium the caller’s telephone company adds.

That is exactly what is happening at present. If the government can justify this charge, there is no good reason why it should not declare it now, before being dragged kicking and screaming to do so by regulation.

Leonard says:
1 November 2012

This extract from a recent exchange of messages with Smile makes it clear that they are not willing to acknowledge the problem:

1. Message to Smile
When I logged in you displayed a screen giving security advice, giving the phone numbers 0844 844 88 44 or 08457 212 212 to report possible security breaches. Both of these numbers are very expensive to call, especially from non-BT lines and mobile phones. Do you have an alternative number beginning 01, 02 or 03, if you are not willing to provide a free 0800 number for such urgent reports?

2. Message from Smile
Both numbers are charged at local rate and there is an option to press the hash key until you get to an advisor and then they would be able to help you

3. Message to Smile
I’m afraid that though these are often advertised as “local rate” that is no longer true. My telephone service provider is Virgin Media, and to call an 0845 number they charge 11.24p connection charge plus 10.22p per minute. To call 0844844 numbers it is 14.94p connection charge and 12.41p per minute. Calls from mobile phones can be even higher. If your management still think of these numbers as being “local rates”, perhaps you could set them right! “Which?” have been campaigning against the use of such numbers, and if you changed it might improve the ratings they give to your bank.

4. Message from Smile
We believe the move from 0845 number to 0844 is both fairer and offers more transparency for our customers, call charges will be consistent and clear whatever time of the day you call.
Calls to 0844 numbers cost no more than 5.105p per minute from a BT Unlimited Anytime package. Other packages and network charges may vary. Calls from a mobile vary depending on your network provider but will be considerably more. Please refer to your network provider for further tariff information.

@Leonard, Good luck and keep up the good work.

I wonder if they realise that calls 0845 numbers are free from a BT Unlimited Anytime package.

I suspect they do.

The Service Charge paid by callers to the 0845 number just about pays for the technical running costs of the number and the fees due to the number seller. The business incurs no charges in running the number.

The Service Charge paid on calls to the 0844 number covers those costs and then leaves several pence per minute over. This is often paid out to the called party under a revenue share scheme.

In simple terms, the business incurred no running costs with the 0845 number but changing to an 0844 number allows them to also make money from each call. They will soon have to declare the Service Charge their number imposes on callers.

Dee London says:
16 November 2012

My Gp surgery has an 0844 number and after many complaints us changing it on Tuesday! It is now mid November 2012!! I comPlained to PALS who spoke to them and they came back with an apology! My concern is their excuse was they were conned into buying a contract and couldn’t buy them selfs out of it??? Contracts with mobile company’s usually last two years! The doctors were obviously in this contract to make money out of patients, with I think is wrong! Is there any way I could get refunded for the major bills I’ve got! I’ve been ill with cancer and have a low income ?

jeff travis says:
15 May 2013

One possible way round this is to use an app called weq4u, i have saved a bit of money doing this. it may not work for all premium rate numbers but it is worth a go.

Another way is to look at saynoto0870.com. it is a source of alternative/free numbers.

Other ways are to call the free 0800 number for new customers and then ask to be put through to the dept you require. Some companies have a number for international callers, this will always be a landline number, try that one

Some companies will ring you back if requested.

Another way is to ask the company to put a credit on your account for the cost of the call, if they won`t, say you want to be put through to customer retentions as you want to take your business else where, they wont want to lose you as a customer for the sake of a couple of quid.

A more drastic way is to not pay your bill, they will soon call you back.

jeff

Hi all. We’ve long thought it wrong for companies to require their customers to call expensive phone numbers for customer service or complaints lines. That’s why we’ve launched out latest campaign – Costly Calls.

The government has made some changes, but this doesn’t include the financial industry. We want to put that right.

We’re calling on the government to extend the ban to the travel industry, for the public sector to lead by example, and for the financial regulator to bring the finance industry into line. You can add your signature to our Costly Calls campaign here: http://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/premium-rate-phone-numbers/

And you can read more about the campaign and join the debate with our Executive Director Richard Lloyd here: https://conversation.which.co.uk/money/costly-calls-campaign-customer-helplines-premium-rate-numbers-0845-0870/

Thanks for your support 🙂

Ian01 says:
14 October 2013

You said: “Commenter Topher also suggested a colour code – red for bad, green for good. Unfortunately, the situation isn’t as black and white (or red and green) as we might like.

I believe a colour code is fairly easy to organise.

It could be as simple as this:

1. If ALL of the numbers begin 01, 02 or 03, then it’s an automatic GREEN.

2. If at least one of the numbers begins 0500 or 080 (i.e. “freefone”) and all of the others begin 01, 02 or 03 then look a bit more carefully.

2a. If the “freefone” numbers all begin 0808 80 or are on the “free calls from a mobile” list published by each mobile network, then it’s GREEN.

2b. If at least one of the “freefone” numbers is not on the “free calls from a mobile” list and doesn’t begin 0808 80, then it’s AMBER.

3. If ANY of the numbers begin 084, 087 or 09, irrespective of what the others are, then it’s RED.

For AMBER and RED: If any of the numbers begin 080, provide a note indicating which ones are free calls from a mobile and which ones are not.

Rationale:

1. If all of the numbers begin 01, 02 or 03 then every caller, whether using a landline or mobile, never pays more than “geographic rate” for the call. Indeed, most callers will have these numbers as “inclusive” calls within a package allowance on their landline or mobile.

2. With the addition of 0500 and 080 numbers into the mix, these are mostly an advantage. All 0500 and 080 numbers are free from landlines. Some 0500 and 080 numbers are free from mobiles (especially 0808 80 numbers), while others are not. However, all 0500 and 080 numbers will be free from mobiles when Ofcom change the rules in 2015. After that time, there will be no “amber” category.

3. If any of the numbers begin 084 or 087, the caller is being asked to pay a Service Charge to the benefit of the called business. This generally makes the call more expensive than calling an 01, 02 or 03 number. A new law, based on the Consumer Rights Directive, will ban these numbers for customer service use in many business sectors from June 2014.

The above reasoning ignores the fact that 0845 and 0870 numbers are inclusive calls from some landlines, simply because they are very expensive calls from mobiles and expensive from most other landlines. Additionally, Ofcom propose 0870 will become revenue sharing numbers once again in 2015, and 0845 will continue as such.

Put another way, all call packages where 01 and 02 numbers are inclusive also include 03 numbers. However, only some of those landline packages and none of those mobile packages include 0845 and/or 0870 numbers. For most people, 0845 and 0870 numbers do not offer any advantage over other expensive 084 and 087 numbers, whereas 03 numbers are advantageous to almost everybody.

A more lenient version of the table might allow companies categorised as RED to instead be AMBER if SOME of their numbers begin 01, 02, 03, 0500 or 080 while others begin 084 and 087.

Ian01 says:
14 October 2013

Instructions for callers BEFORE Ofcom’s unbundled tariffs have come into force:

Instructions for callers (GREEN):

1. If you do have inclusive calls, either on a landline or mobile: Call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a landline (free) – else call the 0500 or 080 number from a landline (free) – else call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a mobile (free) – else call the 0500 or 080 number from a mobile (free).

2. If you don’t have any inclusive allowances on your landline or mobile: If there’s an 0500 or 080 number, call it from a landline (free), else from a mobile (free) – else call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a landline (pay), else from a mobile (pay).

Instructions for callers (AMBER):

1. If you do have inclusive calls, either on a landline or mobile: Call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a landline (free) – else call the 0500 or 080 number from a landline (free) – else call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a mobile (free) – else call the 0500 or 080 number from a mobile (pay).

2. If you don’t have any inclusive allowances on your landline or mobile: If there’s an 0500 or 080 number, call it from a landline (free) – else call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a landline (pay) – else call the 0500 or 080 number from a mobile (pay) – else call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a mobile (pay). If the 0500 or 080 number is a free call from your mobile phone, swap the second and third item here.

Instructions for callers (RED):

1a. For callers with inclusive allowances: First use the AMBER instructions above, and avoid calling 084 or 087 numbers unless it’s an inclusive call (0845 or 0870 numbers are inclusive calls from a few landlines).

1b. For callers without inclusive allowances: First use the AMBER instructions above, and avoid calling 084 and 087 numbers especially from mobiles. Note the following two exceptions. It is often cheaper to call an 084 or 087 number from a landline than to call an 01, 02, 03 or 080 number from a mobile. Landline customers (especially those with BT or with a company that copies BT prices) without any inclusive minutes covering the period when the call is to be made may also find that a call to an 084 number is cheaper than calling an 01, 02 or 03 number.

2. If everything above fails, call the 084 or 087 number from a landline. This will be chargeable.

3. Only as a last resort, call an 084 or 087 number from a mobile. This will be very expensive.

Ian01 says:
14 October 2013

Ranking system AFTER Ofcom’s unbundled tariffs have come into force:

The same RED and GREEN system can be used as before, with the same criteria.

However, with 0500 and 080 numbers free from both landlines and mobiles there’s no longer a need for the AMBER rating. Additionally, with all users of 084 and 087 numbers declaring their Service Charge, it is also possible to rank these numerically.

01, 02, 03 and 080 numbers count as zero. The pence per minute declared Service Charge is added up for the 084 and 087 numbers. The winner has the lowest score. Zero is GREEN. One and above is RED.

Ian01 says:
14 October 2013

Instructions for callers AFTER Ofcom’s unbundled tariffs have come into force:

Instructions for callers (GREEN):

1. If you do have inclusive calls, either on a landline or mobile: Call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a landline (free) – else call the 0500 or 080 number from a landline (free) – else call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a mobile (free) – else call the 0500 or 080 number from a mobile (free).

2. If you don’t have any inclusive allowances on your landline or mobile: If there’s an 0500 or 080 number, call it from a landline (free), else from a mobile (free) – else call the 01, 02 or 03 number from a landline (pay), else from a mobile (pay).

Instructions for callers (RED):

3. First use the GREEN instructions above, but try to avoid calling any 084 or 087 number as there is an additional Service Charge to pay. However, for callers without any inclusive allowances, it may sometimes be cheaper to call an 084 or 087 number from a landline than to call an 01, 02 or 03 number from a mobile.

4. If you’re forced into calling an 084 or 087 number, pick the one with the lowest advertised Service Charge and call it using the method that has the lowest Access Charge (i.e. call from a landline if you can – use a mobile phone only as a last resort as it will usually be much more expensive).

Ian01 says:
14 October 2013

I don’t believe that 0845 is better than 0844 or that 0870 is better than 0871 simply because, when called from a mobile phone, all of these numbers cost a similar, or in many cases, exactly the same amount of money, cost substantially more than calling 01, 02 and 03 numbers, and are not inclusive in call package allowances.

With the exception of 0870 on some landlines and 0845 on a smaller number of landlines, 084 and 087 numbers are not generally inclusive in call package allowances on landlines. With the exception of BT Weekend tariff, calls to 084 and 087 numbers generally cost more than calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers. Most of these anomalies will end in 2015 with 084 and 087 calls becoming universally more expensive than calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers.

While 0500, 0800 and 0808 numbers aren’t currently free from mobile phones, Ofcom is working hard to put that into place in, or by, mid-2015.

The colour code is simple,
– GREEN indicates businesses that use telephone numbers that are either charged at geographic rate, inclusive in call package allowances, or completely free, with the called-business paying any costs associated with running their telephone system, and
– RED indicates businesses that use at least one telephone number where the caller pays an extra fee which covers the call routing costs at the business end of the call, with any excess leading to a revenue share payout.

Once the provisions of the Consumer Rights Directive are in force, using the latter type of number for after-sales enquiries, renewals, complaints and so on will become illegal in many business sectors. While it won’t be illegal to use this type of number for sales and for new sales enquiries, businesses need to think long and hard as to whether charging customers an extra fee to speak to them is a good idea or not (hint: it isn’t).

Keith Wood says:
17 November 2013

Premier Inns booking is on 0871 527 9222, presumably to discourage customers to book on line, but it is even worse is that speaking to individual hotels are also all 0871 numbers.
I tried to call one to check if reception was 24 hour only to be kept on hold for ages with long messages and then no response from the hotel and and an automated message asking me to call back later.
Even worse still, in the many hotel rooms of theirs without telephones, this is the only way of contacting reception down the corridor. This shows outrageous contempt for customers which will mean I will only use them in future as a last resort – pity, as otherwise they seem good.

I currently have calls to 0870 and 0845 numbers included in my call package. This means I don’t have to look for alternative numbers very often. When I do, I find that often the number does not work , I get a recorded message to call the published number or sometimes I get a friendly staff member who will transfer me to the correct department. The latter only seems to work with small companies.

Does anyone know how our telecoms providers are going to react to the legislation when they compile their inclusive packages. I think we should all contact our own providers in the new year to find out.

Ian01 says:
22 November 2013

A call package that has inclusive calls to 01 and 02 numbers must, by law, also include calls to 03 numbers on exactly the same basis (e.g. time of day restriction, or limits on individual call length or total call allowance per month).

The Consumer Rights Directive is all about stopping the use of expensive 084, 087 and 09 numbers for customer helplines by moving to cheaper 01, 02, 03 or 080 numbers. The 034 and 037 ranges are reserved specifically for migration of users away from their existing 084 and 087 numbers. As more and more businesses make that move, it will become irrelevant whether 0845 and 0870 calls remain inclusive in call packages.

Once Ofcom’s “unbundled tariffs” system comes into use in 2015, any remaining users of 084, 087 and 09 numbers will be required to separately declare the Service Charge for their number. This charge is currently hidden within the overall call price. The requirement to declare this charge will lead to even less usage of these numbers.

Savvy consumers are already asking businesses for their 03 number, and if none is available, looking elsewhere for businesses that have already made that change.

Ian01 says:
22 November 2013

“Savvy consumers are already asking businesses for their 03 number, and if none is available, looking elsewhere for businesses that have already made that change.”

“As more and more businesses make that move, it will become irrelevant whether 0845 and 0870 calls remain inclusive in call packages” not sure about you, but I can’t see a company like Sky bothering to move away from their 0844 numbers any time soon. It’s easy money for them.

Even Trading Standards / Citizen’s Advice are in on the act.

They just tweeted:
“Morning!
Need some advice?
Want to report a #scam or a #rogue trader?
Give a friendly advisor a call on 08454 04 05 06”

Do take up their offer.

The draft provisions of the measures to implement the Consumer Rights Directive, which will include provisions to prohibit use of 084 numbers, were announced by BIS as being aimed at “rogue traders”.

Under the terms of language used by BIS, Citizens Advice is operating (both under contract to the government and in its own right) as a “rogue trader”.

The fair telecoms campaign has previously made such a report and would be delighted to follow-up on perhaps a large number of similar reports.

Anyone know if the cost of calling 101 ( police non emergency number ) will also be covered.

Bah, they’re all at it 🙁

The Home Office decided not to fund the full cost of calls to 101, but was anxious that all callers should pay equally for access. That is why, regardless of their tariff, all callers pay 15p per call to make non-energency contact with the local Police service, whereever they are in England and Wales and regardless of the length of the call.

Given that some callers pay 24p for a 1 minute call or 35p per minute when calling a geographic number, their saving may be balanced with the greater cost incurred by those who can call geographic rate numbers with no charge. Whether the Home Office budget should fund all calls is a political question. The call centres and staff costs are funded by the respective Police service.

Each service is required to publish a geographic-rate number for access to it, from anywhere. These are the numbers for many people to use to call their local Police from home, other than in an emergency – when 999 should always be used..

The fair telecoms campaign regards the decision by the Home Office (under both the present and previous governments) as unfortunate – there was concern that a free service could be misused. The equity of the charging arrangement is however recognised and the retention of a geographic rate number for each service serves to address many objections.

This service is not covered by the Consumer RIghts Directive and I do not believe that the Cabinet Office is considering it in its current review and preparation of guidance. Ofcom consulted on the charging arrangements proposed by the Home Office and gave its approval – on the condition that geographic rate access to each service was retained. This is not within the scope of the “Simplifying Non-Geographic Numbers” project – the 15p per call charge could be considered to be a regulated Access Charge.

I have no idea whether Which? considers this to be a “Costly Call”.

(The NHS budget is used to fully fund access via 111. The telephone company used to place the call receives a payment for every call connected, even if the caller could have called a geographic rate number with no charge.)

Thanks for the info. Last time I had a non emergency to report took me 10 mins to find the local number to ring to avoid paying for 101.

I notice that my local authority’s Parking Shop is still using an 0845 number and justify this on the basis that it is a local call and they do now not receive revenue from it. It is the number displayed on all Parking meters and ticket machines so clearly is envisaged to be called from mobiles and thus outside of any calling plans. The Council uses 01 numbers for all its other services and says that to change all the stationery and the meters would be expensive and only the 0845 number allows them to have to the feature line opions for callers. Is this a legitmate way for a public service to operate?

Jev

It is not legitimate, as it is contrary to the HMG Guidance for Customer Service Lines issued last Boxing Day. It may be a local call, but it is not charged at the geographic rate on a 0845 number. The easiest solution would be to switch to the equivalent 0345 number – as very many have done.

The fair telecoms campaign is currently preparing a list of these awful cases where local authorities use contracted services for various types of payments, imposing a Service Charge on service users through use of 084 telephone numbers. Unless they are ready and able to stand up and justify a surcharge for telephone contact, this practice must cease.

Anyone wanting to receive or offer further information can contact the fair telecoms campaign through our web site.

Jev 0845 number ceased being “local rate” back in 2004 and any company still using claim that should be reported to the ASA

david says:
15 January 2015

E-car is the worst company, rang to renew my car insurance, they played 3 long recorded messages plus going through the renewal I had a phone bill of £25!!! Plus other problems with them