Do you haggle for a decent deal?

Wavechange – I agree with you on Which?’s posture on haggling. It is not an honourable or equitable stance and not worthy of the organisation. One person’s haggled deal is another person’s surcharge. I want the first quote to be the best.

With insurance, if I feel the price is too high, I adjust the excesses and cover limits and live with the potential consequences; it’s never ruinous but probably means I take more care.

Thanks John. I appreciate that.

I’m quite capable of haggling, having done a fair amount of this at work. As I’ve said, I’ve no problem with people haggling over luxury items, houses etc. Over the years I have had a lot to do with older people and seen examples of them being ‘ripped off’ because they do not or cannot stand up for themselves.

One of the reasons that I chose to insure my car with NFU Mutual was that Which? suggested that they don’t hike premiums. I’m not sure about that, but it was the smallest increase I have seen for some time.

I agree that it’s worth looking at cover and excesses with insurance and renewal time is the opportunity to make changes without incurring costs.

A friend runs a marina and chandlery and says his prices are non-negotiable, though he does offer quantity discounts. It seems to work very well and on the rare occasion that I have visited the place, he is very well respected by both customers and staff.

As we’ve often discussed before, those of us who “haggle” for good deals on energy will be putting up the prices paid by those on SVTs.

So has W?C just done a “180” on that issue?

I don’t believe the concept of loyalty exists with many companies, particularly large organisations such as energy suppliers. I suspect what is meant is that customers who have been with them a long time. I do not see why that should entitle them to better prices than anyone else.

There is a difference between haggling (energy companies do not seem to indulge in that) and shopping around. It is easily done for all kinds of purchases, and always has been. Many people are better at it than others. You only have to look at the CMA report on energy prices to see how many people who could shop around cannot be bothered because they do not regard the savings as worth the effort. How, in reality, do you change that, and do we want to?

Hi Alex – Vulnerable and poor customers are less likely to haggle over the cost of services. If the rest of us haggle for lower prices it will put prices up for those who can least afford it. I support a great deal of what Which? does, but I think this is the wrong approach. I would prefer to see Which? promoting companies that don’t hike their prices or charge existing customers more than new ones.

Thanks Alex.

Banning haggling is a hiding to nothing. We won’t, it has been a feature of life for as long as I can remember. What we should be doing is to help those who are less able, not preventing the able. Which? offers useful help when it deals with “haggling”, which is a positive approach.

I’m not sure where haggling occurs in “essential” purchases, as opposed to “luxuries”. We don’t haggle over water, food, council tax, energy, clothing, rail fairs, petrol and diesel……. But we can shop around for better prices on some of these – Which?Switch, internet, choice of supermarket for example. The same items at different prices that some may not be able to access. Should we decry that?

I have had marginal reductions on insurance, bigger on the AA, use the internet to get the best deals (recently a “£40” kettle for £30), my sons use cash back sites…..Our gains will always be someone else’s loss, as profits will be maintained or shareholders dividends reduced. Before you leap with joy at the latter, remember many people have put their meagre savings into stocks and share ISAs, and more important, it is stocks and shares that are the basis for all your private pensions.

Perhaps we could explore what are the essential goods and services where haggling substantially distorts the market?

Motor insurance is essential because it is a legal requirement. For mortgagors, buildings insurance is essential because it is a contractual requirement. In both cases I consider haggling to be inappropriate; there should be [and there is in my view] enough competition in the market to render it unnecessary.

John, my ‘haggling’ with the AA goes like this:

Me: I have got my insurance/breakdown renewal. It seems to have gone up rather a lot.

AA: Let me see what I can do for you.

As a broker, they auto-renew with the same company and always seem to find another company that can do it cheaper.

Apart from mentioning having 2 policies with them and having had breakdown cover with them for many years, I actually do very little haggling. They just reduced my renewal by £20 although still slightly up on last year.

I used to use the AA for insurance and originally thought highly of them. Over time, though, I thought they were being a bit lazy in not exploring more options for the renewal as a good broker should.

My technique with insurers has been to ask them for their best quote; if I sniff at what they come up with and they say “we could do it for less or give better cover”, I remind them that I asked for their best quote and feel that they have let me down on a matter of trust. I then go somewhere else, calling direct, not through a comparison site. Remarkably this usually results in a lower premium, or better cover, or both, at the first attempt and with absolutely no effort. That satisfies me enough; I am not necessarily looking for a rock-bottom premium as I would have doubts about the claims performance and general customer service standard.

The worst thing to do with insurance, in my view, is to start loading up all your details on an on-line application form [without which the process will not proceed] and within minutes someone will ring you up on the number you have just entered and try to sell you a policy, putting you on the back foot. I prefer to retain the initiative. Ringing them up means they have to listen and type in all your details. I try to veer them away from their ‘script’. I can ask questions, but I cannot haggle – unless you count pregnant pauses.

If you phone John Lewis, they get a quote by putting your details into a price comparison site.

I found out when I phoned another company who mentioned my details had already been put in the database so I didn’t need to repeat them.

I had been with the same company for quite a few years when I decided to switch and price comparison sites were fairly new. The only company I had given details to was JL.

I wonder how many brokers all get their quotes from the same place?

My home insurance is through JLP. I phoned this year to discuss my insurance. My policy with JLP is underwritten by RSA, just as they state on their website “John Lewis plc is an appointed representative (Financial Conduct Authority number 416011) of Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance plc. John Lewis Home Insurance is underwritten by Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance plc (No. 93792)“.

I believe John Lewis insurance is effectively a desk or two in the R&SA office. I became dissatisfied with their customer service which I considered was inferior to the JLP standard.

I have become used to the need to print off all the insurance documentation at my expense but it annoyed me that the John Lewis paperwork had not been formatted usefully for home printing and there were layout misfits and wasted space so it was quite uneconomical. Grey print on a grey background didn’t help either. It might be better now but I have moved on and won’t be going back.

That’s not good enough and deserves a complaint. It would not be much help to someone with poor sight.

Insurance documents sent online should be formatted for printing (which usually means a pdf), allowing you to print as much or little as you wish and store the electronic file for future reference. One advantage of pdfs is that they are searchable.

I did send a letter of complaint, Wavechange, and can’t remember now whether there was a substantive response.

I wanted to print the whole of the policy document but it was merely a reproduction of an A5 format, double-sided booklet and not presented sequentially. This might have been with JLP’s previous insurance provider, not R&SA.

JLP used to use AXA if I remember correctly. All my documents come through the post. I have had no complaints at all about JLP. But then, fortunately, I have not had to use them. That is really when customer service matters, and I hope never to find out.

John – Maybe it was the pdf used to create the booklet, which will have the pages in the wrong order and possibly size. I have to be careful sending the correct pdf versions of a magazine to the printers and to those who take the magazine electronically.

The RAC plays the same silly game. I now have breakdown cover on my car insurance, which seems to be the cheapest way of buying cover, though I have not compared terms & conditions. When I had a problem recently I called my insurer and the RAC turned out to help.

Too many foolish people who just accept what is offered who cannot be bothered to do anything but accept what is put before them More money than sense maybe

I don’t think people could save anything like £725 every year just by haggling.

I don’t like haggling and won’t do it. I ask firms to give me their best and final quote. If I don’t like it I go somewhere else.

I do the same. I politely make the point that I won’t be coming back to haggle.

You do have to choose what you haggle over. If, for example, it is a proprietary product or service then you are unlikely to come of worst. But if it is, say, a builder or decorator, you are likely to get just what you pay for.

I would not haggle with our builders or decorators any more than I would with the solicitor or dentist. In respect of the tradespeople I see it as our responsibility to ensure we get everything done to our complete satisfaction according to the specification and estimate or quotation. I find things go better if there is no suggestion of haggling or dissatisfaction over the price.

You can only save these once, in the main – like switching to a fixed term energy deal from an svt. And you have to be careful you get the product you want – like car and house insurance with the right cover. However there is no question that haggling is effective, but in the main I think the main savings are not in haggling, but shopping around. even for relatively small things – a £40 kettle for £30 with free delivery (25% off). It is all worth the effort.

Some argue that haggling is immoral; others pay for what you save. That applies to shopping around really; if a manufacturer or distributor is prepared to sell a product cheaply to one supplier, it will maintain its profit margins by supplying elsewhere at a higher price and someone will lose out. So should we therefore not take advantage of such deals? Perhaps a Which? survey would ask the question, but I can guess the result.

I am afraid I do not see researching the market in the same way as haggling. If having researched the market and found the product or service i want at a better price at Argos or SSE, for example, I will not then negotiate with Argos or SSE over its price or possible upgrades. I will just order it.

It is up to all companies to put their best offer in the public domain and it is annoying that some so-say reputable companies refuse to do that, especially for essential services. If they all did that there would be no need for costly and parasitic comparison sites that, for all we know, are the source of so much personal data that floats about in the world wide web.

But you made the effort and you were rewarded howard! Some critics say that there are people who are unable to use haggling, either because they are too shy (perhaps) or because they do not have easy access to the means – the internet to scour the field for example Therefore we should outlaw haggling.

I take a different view. We will not outlaw haggling, it is part of life, and if we don’t do it we simply miss out. Rather than taking the negative approach and trying to prevent those who haggle from benefiting, I think we should take a positive stance and concentrate on finding ways of helping those with haggling difficulties. Family can often assist. Which? has, in my view, taken a pragmatic and helpful view on this and given helpful guidance online and in the mags, including the Jan 18 Which?

I blame The Apprentice.

I keep a record of what I’ve paid for a number of services in the past. We can help ourselves.

So do I, but I presume that others are not so organised. Are you opposed to helping them by printing last year’s premium on the renewal invitation?

No. I am not opposed. I am simply pointing out we can, and should, be prepared to help ourselves and not rely on others. If you are responsible about managing your finances you should know well in advance of a renewal what your insurance, for example, is likely to cost you, along with other major expenditure items.

As John W points out, many people are prepared to learn all about gizmos, but may not bother about the more important things in managing their lives. Their choice, but also the consequences are of their making.

I seem to get on fine by knowing when insurance etc. expires and digging out the file when the renewal invitation comes. I also know the renewal dates and when my car insurance did not turn up this year I contacted the company and popped into the branch, where they printed a copy. (Royal Mail eventually delivered the original document a week or two later.) I might not be as organised as some but seem to cope.

I hope that printing last year’s premium on renewal invitations will prove a deterrent to those companies that try to get away with hiking their prices for existing customers.

What you now have to look out for is cover reductions, increases in excesses, and claims limitations.

I agree there. Nowadays, insurance companies seem very good about drawing attention to material changes. I have no idea whether the insurers have a code of practice or whether this was achieved by the regulator.

I like it. 🙂 If Which? are promoting haggling then perhaps you should give it a go. Best of luck there.