/ Money

Been scammed? It’s all on you!

Bank fraud

Royal Bank of Scotland’s CEO has said that customers need to take more responsibility if they are conned by online scammers. We think there’s a lot more they should be doing to protect you from sophisticated scammers.

The Chief executive of Royal Bank of Scotland has reportedly warned victims of bank fraud not to automatically expect refunds.

Speaking to the Daily Mail, Ross McEwan has suggested it was not wholly the responsibility of banks if customers provide their account details to fraudsters.

He told the paper: “We are working very hard to help customers detect when there are difficulties, but I think this has to be in partnership with the customer and with the bank.”

Of course, there will be times when people could have taken reasonable steps to protect themselves, or have acted with gross negligence, and need to accept responsibility for that. There is a role here for educating people to protect themselves from some of the risks, but it can’t be a blanket approach or the only measure to address the problem.

We wrote to the banks earlier this year to ask them what progress they’d made. The overwhelming response from industry was that focus remains on educating consumers to better protect themselves.

The industry is being required to do more, and banks are looking at best practice for responding to victims and how to better share information. In the meantime, we’re still hearing from people who’ve lost huge sums money to scams that have been incredibly difficult to spot.

Agnes said:
‘I fell victim to a telephone banking scam in which I transferred £20,000, unknowingly to a fraudsters’ account. Within 20 mins of realising what I had done I alerted RBS, who assured me an immediate stop would be put on the transfer. I later learned when speaking to my bank manager that no such stop had been put on the transfer and indeed nothing had been done until some six days later, by which time any hope of retrieving our money had long since gone.’

Scam paranoia

Probably the most stressful experience of my life, so far, was the day I finally transferred my deposit to my solicitor in order to buy my first home. I’d always known I wanted the security of my own house (OK, flat – it is London after all) so had saved hard for years, often living in rubbish places to keep the rent down so I could build up a deposit. I’d just managed to get enough to be able to afford a small flat outside London weeks before prices shifted up again, putting everything out of reach.

At the time I was paranoid I was going to send it to the wrong account, but it never crossed my mind that someone could have hacked into my solicitor’s emails and sent me the account details of a fraudulent account instead.


Thankfully that hadn’t happened and nearly two years on I’m happy in my little flat, despite a DIY to-do list as long as my arm. But for many people that dream of a new home turns into a nightmare when they realise the account they’ve just transferred their life savings to doesn’t belong to their solicitor, but to a fraudster – and they have no legal right to get their money back from the bank.

Impersonating a solicitor to con you out of a house deposit isn’t the only scam that tricks people into transferring money to a fraudster. That’s why, last year, we issued launched our scams campaign and issued a super-complaint to the Payments Systems Regulator (PSR), who agreed there was a lot more banks should be doing to protect their customers.

Do you feel educated enough so as to not fall victim to a scam?

No (64%, 4,148 Votes)

Yes (36%, 2,351 Votes)

Total Voters: 6,499

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This is not just about refunding consumers when things go wrong. There are things banks can be doing to prevent the customer losing money in the first place, such as bringing forward the introduction of ‘Confirmation of Payee’ that checks the name of the account holder where you were sending money to ensure it matched.

PSR report

The PSR is due to report back in the coming months on what progress banks have been making to better protect people since the start of the year. As our CEO Peter Vicary-Smith said earlier this summer, this is an opportunity for banks to step up and address this problem themselves. This doesn’t have to be a chore for industry, banks could even see it as an opportunity to compete to be the best on handling this issue for its customers.

But if they fail to take this issue seriously they are leaving the regulator with little option but to intervene. We would expect the regulator to take strong action to protect consumers from this continued risk.

Do you think it’s right that banks are putting all the responsibility on you to spot when you are being scammed?

Comments
Guest
Martin Hampton says:
11 August 2017

I disagree with your response to my vote. In the example of Stuart and Angie, how is the bank responsible? There is no way that they can be held liable for the hack that occurred to the contractor, allowing the scammer to fake the invoice details. I agree that it is a sad state of affairs that we have come to this but it is now necessary to verify such requests before making a payment. This happens in my work (Civil Service). W get email requests to change supplier bank details – scammers trying to catch us out and get some of the money that is due to a company. Having been caught out a few times, we have rigid procedures to verify such requests

Guest
chrispb says:
11 August 2017

“Having been caught out a few times” is the important phrase.
Individuals don’t get chance to build up experience; they simply get done!

Guest
John rigby says:
12 August 2017

It’s time that all banks encourage a social responsibility attitude. They are in a privilege trading position.What’s a loss of a few thousand to a CEO who is paid by the millions?

Guest
Chief says:
16 August 2017

You should not have ‘been caught out a few times’ – the risk should have been identified and mitigated by additional checks anyway! Banks must do more to make scams impossible – and earn our trust to protect their customers and our money more effectively.

Guest
Jan Torch says:
4 October 2017

I couldn’t agree more, I would only add ” one at a time!”.

This CEO needs to get off of his high horse – it is seriously bad when not just his customers but the whole of the tax paying population is subsidising keeping his bank going!

Guest
Michael Osborne says:
11 August 2017

By shutting down banks, you are forcing your customer’s to be even more reliant upon internet banking. Wake up to your responsibility RBS and sort yourself out first.

Guest
Alison Wunderland says:
11 August 2017

Which, you talk about bank scams but really you are talking about scammers using bank details. Some banks have procedures in place to alert them to scams, when they miss these scams they ought to refund the money to the victim because banks have enormous resources to which the citizen has no access.. My own quarrel with NatWest which started back in 1984 when they “lost” a cash transfer payment for an export order. This cost me my company, and I was later to discover that direct transfers from the Bank of England to my private account had been “lost”. I was finally to close my accounts with the bank, I left a £36k overdraft with the bank. After 30 years and many threats from them and their lawyers, they decided to drop the claim for repayment of the overdraft. I have attempted to get compensation for 30 years of harassment on an amicable basis, so far no joy. I have evidence of false statements in affidavits and falsifying documents. The police investigated after my MP sent details after 18 months the bank drew up a bank statement showing some of the smaller amounts repaid. To the police, that ended the investigation.

Guest
Carole says:
11 August 2017

I have been subject to credit card fraud and luckily this was discovered by my credit card company because I didn’t check my statements regularly when I knew I hadn’t used the card myself and trusted all was fine. I now check ALL my statements. Someone somewhere got a great vacation out of my account, but the credit card company were great and refunded all fraudulent amounts,

Guest
Mehboob Sumar says:
11 August 2017

i have been scammed by a uk individual who was running a PONZI scheme, I transferred all my savings ( i am dissapointed at my self for that ) to their account, Had the LLOYDS bank noticed all the activity in the scammers personal account as many had given the scammer the money and raised the alarm and queries then probably we could have saved some money and saved other people from being scammed but instead they (lloyds) chose to close the account.
Therefore i feel that banks should be fully responsible for holding peoples money and whether those funds are rightfully acquired!

[Sorry, your comment has been edited to align with our Community Guidelines https://conversation.which.co.uk/commenting-guidelines/. Thanks, mods.]

Guest
David Chater says:
11 August 2017

I find it disturbing to have learned from a bank scam team that the name appearing on a bank transfer is of no significance whatsoever and is only there as a reference for the payer, furthermore the actual name on an account cannot be assertained because of data protection even though that person is a criminal!!

Guest
Simon Pettman says:
11 August 2017

This has seemed very odd and unnecessarily risky to me. But I think it is even worse than that. I recently was given the wrong account number (by a trades person) to make a a transfer for a deposit. The sort code was correct the account name was correct but two of the bank code numbers where transposed. I made the payment successfully and was only alerted to the issue when the trades person contacted me a while later asking if I still wanted to proceed with the work since I had not transferred the deposit. I was able to track that they had given the wrong account number, but was surprised that despite the fact the account number did not match the sort code or name the amount was paid without warning. This is just plain wrong and leaves the consumer with a false sense of security. It is possible that the account with the transposed numbers was in the same bank as the correct one but it should be unlikely and TBH banks should take step to ensure uniqueness to these coordinates of name,account, and sort code. for security reasons. It cant take make to do some fuzzy mapping on the name and warn that the account name that is associated with the account number does not in anyway relate to name you have entered.

I agree that customers are responsible to some extent and in some situations but while the bank can do more they should do more

Guest

Which? you seem to think that letting someone hack your e-mail address is your banks fault if it’s used to commit fraud. Well it isn’t.
I think this campaign is further proof that everyone is responsible for my wellbeing except me.
Man up, and accept the fact that if you can’t be bothered to look after your own interests, why the **** should anyone else?

Guest
tony says:
11 August 2017

No JB,it isn’t a matter of someone elsebeing responsibile for my well-being. The banks have introduced systems for transferring money that offer convenience to the customer but are essentially doing so to cut their costs. If they introduce something to suit their purposes, whilst at the same time making it harder to use existing methods, then they bear the responsibility for ensuring that things don’t go wrong.

Guest
Michael Tozer. says:
11 August 2017

I have been with the Midland / HSBC Bank group for over fifty years, and recently their Fraud Line contacted me to alert me to some suspicious activity on my account, which showed up as not my normal transactions, which they then stopped and queried with me to confirm.
Had the Fraud line not intercepted several attempted transactions on my account, I would have been a lot poorer, because the money would have been gone, and no way of tracing it either.
But I would expect a Bank to be vigilant on my behalf, and have procedures in place to circumvent such unlawful activities.

Guest
John says:
11 August 2017

A few years ago I sold a property in France and had the money which was in my French bank account in Euros there, transferred to my Euro account with Barclays in the UK – but my money did not arrive, even after several weeks. When I contacted Barclays they were completely uninterested and said I had to ‘launch an investigation’. I asked how I was supposed to do that, I am not in the banking industry, they gave no advice at all. I spoke to someone at the Banking Ombudsman who gave me a rough idea where to start.
My bank in France were astounded that my money had not arrived and were very helpful.
What I found out in the end was that my money was transferred correctly as requested using SEPA (international money transfer system) but Barclays International had intercepted it at their Paris branch and took it upon themselves to change the currency from Euros to £s.
When the money arrived at my Euro account in the UK it was in the wrong currency and had been diverted to a Barclays holding account which we, my French bank and me, traced to a Barclays branch in London which had ‘closed’ some years before but they (Barclays) were still using accounts there to ‘store’ money.
In the end my money went back to my French bank for resending and because they (Barclays) knew the transaction was being monitored, it went into my UK Euro account within a few hours, not even the five/six days they usually took!
I did get my money in the end but it all took several weeks longer than it should have and Barclays did not put any effort in to tracing where my money had gone to. It was a stressful experience.
Barclays never apologised.

Guest
TOM Waters says:
11 August 2017

JOHN, typical Barclays I have had a few problems with them, they will always blame you/me, and the word, “sorry sir” is a dirty phrase, when I went to the Omnbudsman, suddenly they had people calling me to sort things out, but even then their attitude was bombastic, this guy who called me talked like and express train like he had to get his point over but at the same time making you feel like it was still all your fault, To my mind Barclays are the worst bank of all, THEY WILL ALLWAYS ACCUSE YOU OF BEING INWRONG. TOM.

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Guest

Indeed Barclays have an evil reputation. I am curious as to the amount of compensation John received for there c**k-up and time-wasting. I would think a few hundred would be acceptable though it should also be in a clearly identifiable section of the Annual Accounts headed-up settlements for Bank created problems and deducted from the bonus pool for senior execs.

Guest
TOM Waters says:
11 August 2017

I put My money in the care of the Bank, lets face it they get quite a bit from our money yet do not want the responsibility if anything go’s wrong, and as I don’t buy anything outside of PayPal I don’t see why I should have to worry about anyone getting hold of my Bank details, I do not have my Bank details on line, as I don’t do any online banking , so if the Bank and PayPal get scammed, then that’s their responsibility, TOM.

Guest
Robert Newman says:
11 August 2017

The only two occasions I have had credit card fraud was using PayPal. I have found HSBC good at noticing any dodgy activity on my bank account; they even called me one Boxing Day to check whether a transaction was genuine; it was not so they immediately put a stop on the account and issued me a new card within theree days.

Guest
Steve says:
11 August 2017

In all cases, the bank to which the money is fraudenly paid should immediatly refund the money to your bank. It is these banks who are allowing criminals to open bank accounts, that would soon make them vet their customers more carefully, e.g. when someone opens an account, it should be done in person, and photos and fingerprints/dna taken, and accounts monitored for unusual activity.

Guest
Lockwos says:
11 August 2017

When we are transferring large, possibly life changing amounts, why cant there be a system in place such as. I transfer the money but it cant be accessed until after I check with the desired recipient. Once they confirm they have it in their account I release the lock on it. The banks are closing branches, making cheques more online and have made transfers almost instantaneous. Great most of the time but it makes life easier for scammers.

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Guest

The safest online way at present seems to be to transfer £1, say, to your “benificiary” and check with them that it has been received in their account. Then, when you use the stored account data in your online banking you can be confident you’ve used the right numbers for the right person.

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Guest

There are alternative payment transfer facilities provided by the banks which include sophisticated security checks at both ends and personal monitoring through the transfer. This service is reliable and guaranteed but, understandably, it comes at a cost and takes several days.

The fast payments service was introduced to provide a quick, efficient charge-free way of making payments but, as Malcolm recommends, it is best to do a trial transfer on the first occasion with a new payee. If further payments are to be made to the same payee it is indeed a very effective way of transferring money and controlling the date of execution of each payment from your account.

If people are transferring “life-changing amounts” than I would suggest they go to their bank [or at least speak to someone there] and ask for guidance.

Guest
Adam says:
11 August 2017

I think that the scam is that no bankers went to prison after the last fiasco and now they say its the customers fault, shame on you and your side Mr. McEwan.

Guest
Mike W says:
11 August 2017

In a head long rush to accept technology, people in general don’t take the same kind of precautions they would when making normal purchases. If they saw a dodgy man/woman on a street corner, pulling watches out of a coat would they expect to be buying something like a genuine Rolex for 1/100th of the price of a genuine retailer. I think most would avoid this and yet they don’t even attempt to look for an obvious fraud on line.
If they go online and don’t check the store has easy contact details and a good returns policy, then it is there fault, not the banks. Transactions can be halted by banks, but they don’t know of every scam artist out there, pretty much the same as the police don’t know every criminal. Some do good jobs of a cover up, but data does need to be shared with customers and sensible precautions taken by both customers and banks.
You give a bank your money to look after, then they should bare the lions share of responsibility for the safeguarding of that money.

Guest
Agnes stevenson says:
11 August 2017

I was scamed and it was a very stressful I am 75 years old and never for a minute I thought someone would do this to me how stupid could I have been ,I think a lot of older people that have never grown up with all this technology is quite mind boggling ,now I don’t do anything online

Guest
Harry Macdonald says:
11 August 2017

The key issue, I think, is that it is possible for a scammer to open a bank account which the victim is tricked into paying money into and the scammer can then empty it and disappear without trace.
With all the security needed to open a bank account, this should not be possible and the bank should be held liable if it happens.

Guest
Ian Kidd says:
11 August 2017

I am getting on a bit these days however when I started work back in 1971, if you wanted money you went to your bank, the choice of which was many, they were well staffed , pleasant and helpful if you wanted advice.
These days with the advent of the hole in the wall, you can get your money out 24 hrs a day ( if you have any !) for which on some machines you have to pay ! What happened to all that staff………….and more to the point the banks themselves and how much money did the banks make on savings re staff and buildings. I digress
The vast majority of people now use the internet which when used properly is a god send but when people like the NHS etc can be hacked and held to ransom what chance do older people have, they can’t afford to keep updating their computers/ laptops etc every year or so. I have only recently purchased and had installed new security but as the I.T. consultant told me, ” Don’t rely on this it will be out of date by this time next week” I still get scams every day most go into Junk but some are so good they get through.
Bring back the good old banks and people you can actually call in and talk to !

Guest
eric morgan says:
11 August 2017

Banks ASK for our money. One bank asks and offers cash. They should take care of it.

Guest
Kay Kenyon says:
11 August 2017

We have seen in the papers how solicitors have had their emails hacked and details sent to house buyers who then pay the money into a hackers account. If professional bodies like this are wide open , how is the man on the street, who rarely uses technology, going to be able to cope? Presumably the solicitors don’t even know they have been hacked. Who is to blame here? We refuse to use online banking after a very bad experience.

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Guest

I also refuse to use it Kay as well as an leading Oxbridge teaching Professor on digital engineering security . Dont trust “Cloud Storage ” either its been hacked many times .

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Guest

You can’t even trust a professor these days duncan “A Northwestern professor and an Oxford University employee were arrested Friday after a national manhunt following the stabbing death of a Chicago cosmetologist.” 🙁

University of Minnesota law professor indicted in fraud scheme
According to the indictment, from 2006 to 2013, Edward S. Adams stole more than $4.38 million from investors and paid more than $2.54 million to his own law firm. 🙁 🙁

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Guest

Maybe the first professor had an “emotional ” motive and the second one knew the same methods used as the Oxbridge Professor knew in relation to banking fraud . Professors worldwide have world Internet communications facilities to pass on information to each other –in the name of scientific “progress ” malcolm .

Guest
bishbut says:
31 August 2017

Remember NO technology is 100% secure and will not be for a long time to come Someone is always finding a way to beat the latest security systems and just do every time Use it but BEWARE

Guest
Elinor says:
11 August 2017

If the banks were made fully responsible they would do more to check when new accounts are opened up and also freeze these accounts quicker. The problem is that they are allowing scammers to get away with the money. Both my sister and her daughter had money taken from their accounts and although they got the money back no feedback was given to my sister and her daughter . The bank probably did nothing as the amounts were low. A cheque for over £4,000 made payable to my business was intercepted and paid into a bank account. How could that happen? What checks were made by the bank when a business account was opened up? The banks must tighten and quicken up their procedures. Had they checked properly with Companies House they would have realised there was a company already in existence with the same or similar name. It’s time the banks protected their customers better and reacted quicker when told of a scam. They don’t care as a present they don’t have to pay the money back.

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Guest

If you want the bank to carry out a full identity check on companies before executing a transfer authorised by the customer there will be a charge for that. It is unlikely that any banks carry out a Companies House check but they do offer more secure ways of transferring money – at a price, which for small amounts would be prohibitive unless speed is of the essence.

I think banks need to make it much clearer to their customers, especially on the first occasion they use the fast payment service, that there is no reconciliation of the account-holder’s name with the sort code and account number, and also to warn users never to accept without verifying it a notification of changed bank or payment details.

Guest
Helen says:
11 August 2017

I used to live in South Africa where the banks there send an sms for every action on your account… that helps HUGELY.

Guest
Mr Inman says:
11 August 2017

I’ll have to admit to feeling a bit misled by the email I got from Which? about this. The impression I had was that this was referring to investment by the banks: banks (especially RBS) are guilty of some thoroughly reckless decisions on this, so I voted that money invested by the banks should be entirely the responsibility of the banks.

What I didn’t realise was this was to do with security of customers’ personal accounts. If the entire responsibility for the security of these lies with the banks, then it becomes more likely legitimate account holders would be prevented from accessing their accounts through prohibitive security measures. Protecting customers from scams requires a bit of work from both banks and themselves, I think.

Guest

Wait until Open Data regulation take effect – then we’ll all be in trouble!

Guest
Nicholas Evans says:
11 August 2017

I am 72 years old. As time goes on the odds are that I shall become more susceptible to scams not less. For this reason I have resisted the many attempts by my bank. ironically NatWest, to encourage me to use its on-line system to make payments. Instead I have made payments in batches by going in person to my local branch. They have now closed this local branch (in a town, not a village, and one which even houses the local authority for the County!). So far it is the only one of the major banks to do so but, given the continuing mindset of our banks, (RBS historically, in my opinion, having been the worst), to focus on money for its shareholders and directors ahead of service for its customers, and to follow each other like sheep, I fully expect others to follow and for RBS to praise itself for being the first, rather than apologise. I believe that the banks have a duty to protect the money we deposit with them and to take responsibility for any defect in their systems which fails to give, and to continue to give, this protection.

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Guest

Nicholas NatWest is part of RBS I should know I very recently had dealings where I was dealt with by NatWest employees working for RBS who were able to help me . RBS is owned by HMG (73 %) but is likely to sell-off its shares at a tremendous loss ( whats new ? same old sell at a loss to attract -well what are Yuppies called nowadays ? ) Who loses out – one guess ?? — why you the British public. It doesn’t take a City accountant to work out who will buy the shares – goodbye UK owned -hello America owned . Whats left to sell off ?? why our souls to Beelzebub but then they aren’t worth the birth certificate they are printed on.

Guest
Dawn says:
11 August 2017

Correct me if I am wrong is it not the royal bank of scotland who lost so much money and had to be bailed out by our government. They are a disgrace and both them and Nat West should be made more responsible and take control instead of passing the buck to their customers who do their best not to be scammed. It is also laughable that this bank who still owes the taxpayer for the bail out and are still working at a loss talk about the oot calling the kettle black.

Guest
John T Temple says:
12 August 2017

If I take responsibility for looking after someone’s precious children or goods I automatically become it’s guardian,
That means I take full responsibility,
And that means not just the good bits of the responsibility,
They have our money and they make a lot of money by using our money for there gain,
If they want the good bits of money holding then they must take the bad bits as well

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Guest

But, John, supposing the parents of the children in your care ask you to take them to a party, give you the wrong address, and that is inhabited by not nice people that you do not realise at the time. Who is responsible – you? Or the parents?i

Guest
june says:
12 August 2017

Having been the victim of scammed. I can assure you that these people are extremely clever and convincing. I am by no means stupid but I fell victim to these terrible people who preyed on my good nature and my honesty. They manipulated and abused me emotionally to the extent that I feel unsafe everywhere.

Guest
Helen says:
12 August 2017

With any payment I set up on internet banking I send a small payment of say £1.00, check that it has arrived successfully, perhaps make a phone call to the person involved. Only when I know the small payment has arrived successfully would I send the larger payment. I’ve worked in the banking industry for over 20 years and have seen first hand how payments can end up in the wrong account by accident let alone when sophisticated scammers get in on the act. It is frightening how fraudsters can get hold of enough information to successfully get through the security questioning and try to pass themselves off as a genuine customer.

Profile photo of wavechange
Guest

Some of us have done the same but I wonder why this advice is not provided by every bank.

Profile photo of malcolm r
Guest

And have Which? provided this advice? Anyone provide a link please?

Profile photo of wavechange
Guest

Hi Helen – You mention that fraudsters can easily get hold of enough information to get through security checks, but do you know if standards differ significantly between banks. Obviously I’m not looking for names.

Having used various online accounts with banks and building societies, the security of the login procedure seems better for some than others.

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Guest

Some years ago when opening a new account (probably a building society), I had to take a photo of myself and several items of proof of where I lived to the local post office who then endorsed it.

It seemed over the top at the time but I haven’t been asked to do this since. Anyone else come across this?

Guest
Arthur D Hyde says:
13 August 2017

It is very easy to fall for any Scam. The Scammers are very well trained! I have told hundreds of students how to look out but I was still ‘taken in’ by a MS Phone Scam for 15 minutes. Never believe it won’t happen to you.
With Banking, the Banks make the rules and encourage us to do these unsafe operations.. They should then take full responsibility. They have the choice to change the system but, at the moment they make more profit by letting the customer pay. ADH

Guest
John Tait says:
13 August 2017

When someone is scammed by a bank transfer the Scammer has opened an account to take the deposits
The Bank receiving the payments should be responsible for ensuring that their client is Bona Fide and not a scammer
I would say when scams do occur they should have to refund all the money unless they can show its not due to their inability to correctly vet the applications
Also when a bank transfer takes place the sending bank should be responsible for recovering that money from the bank who took the transfer

We bought a car and the dealer asked for a bank transfer which I was very unhappy about because if the sales guy made a one digit mistake or I did then the 10K could disappear into the ether while all the parties washed their hands of the problem
It went through OK thankfully but there needs to be some really robust set of checks and balances not just lets punch in the number and press send
How can that make sense?

Guest
bishbut says:
13 August 2017

No technology is 100% secure When a new way is found to improve security some one starts to discover a way to beat it Not just rogues it is a challenge to some Make use of it but do not trust it at all many things can go wrong Somebody once said—-IF anything can go wrong it will —-sooner or later

Guest
Sue Sturt says:
14 August 2017

I certainly feel the elderly and vulnerable should be particularly protected, as many are not completely computer savvy and too trusting. These accounts should be flagged up, and no unusual or large transactions on accounts should be completed until they have been fully investigated by the bank.

Guest
George says:
14 August 2017

Who needs banks? Bitcoin all the way. Resaearch it!

Guest
Mark Gentry says:
16 August 2017

From a layman’s point of view I find this type of rebuke from the Royal Bank Of Scotland hard to take, given the way it has been reported by the media over the last eight yearsI mean The continual crisis it seems to have in over the past years when led by others in charge of the Bank at the time. Perhaps if it came from a bank that had been led by good stewards in the past ( Leaving a company or organisation in better standing and condition than when they took there directorships or chairman ships.) I would accept it, as we all are responsible for, in part, for our security.
In any company dealings there should integrity (honesty uprightness.) Are you old enough to remember when banks and managers were considered pillars of society? Gods word to us the Bible was the basis of our society in years gone by, Was there more integrity in business then? Perhaps we should dust the old book down and as a society have a read. The chances are there’s one laying around in our homes, normally an older relatives ?

Guest
alan cowell says:
19 August 2017

I lived in Spain for 30 years and for the last 10 years the major banks operate the following system :-
Every time you make a transfer, use an ATM machine, pay at a petrol station or make any purchase using your credit card, you receive a text message to your mobile within 25 to 30 seconds, therefore alerting you straight away that your card has been used.
The text states which company took the money and the time and date of the transaction.
If you receive a text and you know you did not make the transfer or use your credit card you can call your bank immediately to inform them and cancel.
This saves the banks millions paying out to customers and allows you to contact the bank straight away if your card has been used without your knowledge.

Guest
Patrick Taylor says:
19 August 2017

Seems sensible. The Credit Agricole in France confirm card payments and DDs over the internet though possibly this could be by SMS instead.

The cartel of the UK banks has for years being arranging matters to their own benefit.

Guest
Scottie says:
23 August 2017

One votes a particular way and Which? has the audacity to inform me about someone who HAS been scammed.
What percentage of fraud carried out is the bank’s fault? More public information films need to be aired to inform people that Microsoft don’t call people about virus’, banks don’t ask for passwords, etc.

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Guest

I have just been informed that -711million passwords+email addresses have been hacked ( more info if required ) . This has led to emails being sent out asking them to click on to confirm their banking details , as this is a major cause of many losing money to help them I have a website that will check too see if YOUR data is on their list . This is an excellent checker and no it isnt a tracker( no serious malware type trackers ) or malware website just make sure you check DIRECT not via cnet or others . : https://haveibeenpwned.com/ make a note of this URL it will help many who dont understand how hackers can get your data , just input your email address and click on and , if you want they will email you if your data is breached . Top 10 data breaches exposed =-nearly 5 million pwned accounts and more. I have just checked the URL I posted and yes its kosher.

Profile photo of wavechange
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I recognise that from the BBC news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41095606

Not doubt other sites will give more detail.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Guest

Your right Wavechange its the same story I got mine from a US security website that emails me. The test URL is still “good to go “.

Profile photo of wavechange
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Many will rightly be wary of messages about security issues that invite them to access unfamiliar websites, but might trust an organisation such as the BBC. The BBC page gives the same link. I appreciate your efforts to keep us informed about security matters because I suspect that many don’t believe that they could possibly be affected.

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Sorry Wavechange I dont trust BBC websites . On the one you posted there are 5 tracking Jscripts / 1 WEB-BUG 2 other trackers and thats only one protection app .On another 6 trackers are blocked and NO Script app on another browser has blocked a host of tracking J scripts so much so that it will only allow text to be displayed . So ,in essence , the URL I posted has much less deep tracking than the BBC who , no matter how high a regard you think of them are not the “angels ” most people think and that is only scraping the surface I have more technical trackers that are deeper installed on their websites . So much for “the Peoples service more like Third party service and I dont mean the old radio waveband that played classical music. I believe in the British public being told the truth upfront no matter how “ugly ” it seems .

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Fair enough, but I expect that people will trust the BBC more than anything that you or I or any unknown person might post on a website.

Websites generally mention they use cookies but what I would like to see on every website is an honest and up to date explanation of what information is used for.

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Which? has a host of trackers but does explain why. But I agree; the BBC is inherently far more trustworthy than many other sites. What is interesting about the linked site is that you have to type in your email to see if it’s been ‘pwned’, which is exactly what scam sites ask you to do. And, in the past, sites like that have been ether hacked or taken over or – in some cases – are already being run by scammers.

So I treat with incredible scepticism being asked to enter my email address in a site of which I’m not extremely sure.

Guest
bishbut says:
31 August 2017

Stop one or more scams ok but there will other scams waiting in the wings just to take their place Can anyone win but the scammers ??

Profile photo of duncan lucas
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How about the biggest “scam ” of them all since -2006 Intel and since -2013 AMD who design CPU,s have installed back-doors into them originally to allow updates etc to be made but both the NSA+GCHQ have been given the codes to access any computer and see what you are doing and make changes to your mouse/keyboard and any ancillary . This applies to both types of mobile phone systems . In Intel,s case its the Management Engine that allows this . The problem , if you think official control of your computer is “okay ” is that guess who have got wind of it and are using it ? All aspects of your computer are an open book even when you switch off they can switch on again . When I downloaded the info after 30 seconds a blocker came up ( nice ) but I have it by other means.

Profile photo of DerekP
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Duncan, I think the best way to avoid those back doors is simply to use old PCs with pre-2006 designs. I have no shortage of those here, but do also use a couple of newer i5’s now and again.

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Your right of course Derek , I have a spare PC with a pen 4 CPU and I stuck 32 bit Ubuntu on it. , slow but it works ( lack of memory ) at least I know they arent controlling it as I use it . I have downloaded the details to overcome this but , no dice , you need a degree in computer design + the associated electronic equipment + all the keys/passwords to gain access to the basic firmware programme in the CPU , even then one slip and you have bricked the PC . Good as my brain is this is beyond me. Its just the slyness of it that annoys me – the 5 “Eyes” in action . The latest news is the NSA dont even need back-doors now. I am now in the market for pre 2013 AMD chip PC,s although they are not as good as Intel I would rather have a slow PC than somebody playing tricks on me as I use it.

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At least these old PCs are nice and cheap. I even managed to acquire a 2008 MacBook for £100 a couple of weeks ago. It has a nice fast 2.4GHz Core2 Duo CPU. Whilst its version of OS X is no longer supported with security patches by Apple, “upgrading” these machines to run a modern, supported version of Linux is a simple matter.