Financial firms are still charging customers to complain

Also I have just sold my Royal Mail shares through Equiniti and they charged me £45 for selling my 227 shares, absolutely outrageous and I seemed to have no other option.

Why doesn’t “Which” do some research as to the cheapest way to sell small holdings of shares such as those of the Post Office?

Yes, I would support the idea of Which? surveying the cost of selling small batches of shares. I have tried to GIVE my small quantity of Eurotunnel shares to a charity, but the cost of GIVING them to a charity is more than the shares are worth!

Equiniti’s listed number for those who want to “voice your concerns” is 0871…. which they helpfully show as costing 8p/min plus network extras! They do list their email address.
As I understand it a dealing form was issued with PO shares for those who wanted to sell immediately at 0.75% charge (+ stamp duty 0.5%). Alternatively keep and deal through their registrar Equiniti at 1% dealing charge. Was there a catch to this then? Since it is predicted the shares will pay a first year dividend of £45, a return of around 6%, I wonder why you would want to sell.
I would like to see an incentive for share buyers to hold longer term so they are investing in companies rather than gambling. It is reassuring that both the Financial Conduct Authority and the Gambling Commission have 0800 and 0121 numbers.
Sorry to digress.

Equiniti have charged me £80 in total for 3 cheques representing outstanding entitlements. They would not reply to any of my letters so the only way I have managed to get the money owed is by telephoning them which cost 8p per min plus network extras.

Equiniti usually publishes a parallel Birmingham (0121) number for callers from outside the UK, particularly as many shareholders are in practice based outside the UK. Therefore use this number instead; that’s what I do.

When implementing an EU Directive, nation states cannot add extra provisions over and above those contained within the Directive. Check the rules surrounding “gold plating”.

Financial institutions are covered by a separate stream of EU Directives to those covering businesses. However, if the UK is to cover financial services with provisions involving telephone numbers, it is the FCA that will have to do it, not BIS.

That’s not true. A member state can add additional provisions, but cannot remove provisions. For example, BIS proposes to extend the scope of Article 21 to cover social services, healthcare, package travel and timeshare (all of which are exempt from Article 21), but has chosen to preserve the exemption for the other industries such as financial services.

Given that no legislation covering financial services contains any provisions of Article 21, it made no sense to provide an exemption to this industry. There is no good reason why Article 21 couldn’t apply to all industries with no exemptions whatsoever.

Most UK banks don’t yet offer a secure messaging service, although some are planning to do so. I would never communicate with my bank openly in the public domain for all to see, even if just to request a call back. Twitter is not an appropriate communication channel for banking.

I don’t see whats wrong with tweeting “@Bank can someone call me please? will DM you my phone number”.

Very simple and saves a phone bill, saves waiting to speak to someone, saves on hold music and for me it makes me money too.

When someone calls you and says they’re from you bank, how are you going to verify that is actually the case? You can’t rely on what is shown as the Calling Line Identity.

I don’t have Calling Line Identity as I have a corded phone that use not use electricity.

Normally I tweet my bank, DM my phone number, they call and say “Hello I’m Jenny from the Nationwide, I am calling in reply to your tweet” and I tell them what I need from them. They then reply via the Nationwide online bank message system.

So really simple, very quick and it makes me about £0.85 – £1.70 per call.

I think we’re all forgetting the real reason that Lee prefers a callback – he has an 0871 number from which he earns revenue on incoming calls! 😉

Lol, I have to admit that is one of the main reasons. But it’s also nice to speak to someone right away. No need to listen to on hold music or waiting to even speak to someone in the first place 🙂

I’ve emailed indesit ( who use 0844 number) twice in the last month, and had nothing back. I’ve since sent them a message on facebook and again nothing.

I’d like to therefore ring them but won’y as 0844 numbers aren’t covered by my call package.

Some companies may seem to have an online presence but clearly they don’t take it seriously.

I have just searched for them on Twitter and they look like they talk to people (@IndesitUK) I would give that ago if i was you 🙂

You are lucky to find an email address, more and more companies are hiding their contact details forcing you to ring them

You can also add EE who have the nerve to require us to use premium rate numbers when it’s their system that’s faulty (which is very often, by the way) and keep us hanging on forever – or until we give up. Truly not my idea of customer ‘service’.

If a business sells goods or services via its web site, then Regulation 6(1)(c) of the Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002 obliges it to publish its e-mail address. This is one of the most widely flouted pieces of legislation, yet enforcement authorities take no action against the errant businesses, mainly of whom are very large.

Lee

Have you tweeted Ryanair yet and managed to get them to phone you back?

Not yet, I forgot tbh lol. I have tweeted Indesit and going to see if they call me back. I will try Ryanair as a test too.

David, for EE, just dial 01707 315000 from a fixed line or 150 from any EE/Orange/T-Mobile SIM card. They will put you through to any department within the EE group.

Hi Lee, it is possible that you are missing the point entirely and your “i’m alright Jack” attitude doesn’t take into consideration the millions of people in this country that don’t have the ability (for what ever reason) to access and use the likes twitter, face ache and all the other forms of social networking.

Whilst I on the other hand do, in certain circumstances still I prefer to speak to a bone fide customer services clerk. As may already have been mentioned, certain gov’t agencies are still in the dark ages with customer contact technology and IT in general, so there is no choice but to call them.

I object to a) calling any company for customer service that charges for inbound calls to boost their bottom line profits (covering the costs of customer help – is only a smoke screen) & b) calling gov’t agencies when I have to, where they are charging me for the experience, when I have paid for this service already through my hard earned taxes.

If you get a call from indesit, and have nothing genuine to talk about yourself.

You can ask them if their online shopping cart accepts credit cards with a 2013 start date. It didn’t as of last week when I messaged them on facebook. And in a little over 7 weeks they’ll need to accept 2014.

Thank you 🙂

William, Ok, i will ask them if they call me 🙂

Peter. I am speaking for the 25 and under age group. I can no comment on what people older than my age group may feel about matters 🙂

What about those who do not have a computer? Many elderly people and those on very low incomes do not have access to computers, and many do not know how to use them.

Like a say Janet. I can not speak for the elderly as I am a young 25 year old and can only speak for my age group 🙂

Thanks for the tip you patronising person – I am 84 a bit before those 60’s lot

Peter, I am sorry if you feel like I am being patronizing. But I’m not sure how I am being. All I am saying if all I can speak for is my age group and that’s all?

If a company provides a telephone number for customer services, we should not have to look for an alternative number to use because the given number is too expensive to call, no matter how old or young we are. Hopefully, all the offenders will be sorting themselves out by June 2014.

In a perfect world every company would have a 03 number and every normal person would have a 01/02 number. 08/09 would be gone forever. That’s what I feel.

But as we don’t live in a perfect world we all have our own special way on how to-do things and I think Patrick will agree with me here……I am far from “normal” on how I do things…..but they work for me and I’m happy with them 🙂

Lee Beaumont obviously does not realise that not everyone has a computer or even knows how to use the one that can be used free of charge at your local library. This applies mainly to those over 60 years and many disabled, so I cannot agree with the comment to use “Twitter” as a contact to your bank etc;.

Anthony. I have said 3 times now ” I am a young 25 year old and can only speak for my age group ” I am not 60+ so am unable to comment for those people.

Ok if you are into social networking but there are a lot of people who just don.t know how or want to use it

As NFH says “If a business sells goods or services via its web site, then Regulation 6(1)(c) of the Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002 obliges it to publish its e-mail address. This is one of the most widely flouted pieces of legislation”

I always prefer to send an email message rather than calling a call centre, so that I have a record of what I said and can link any replies or follow-up messages into a thread of conversations. It is difficult to do this when organizations require me to send messages by filling in a little box on a web page, and even more irritating, and discourteous, when they send me an email message with the comment “Do not reply to this message as replies will be ignored” – there is no reason why they should not include a valid “Reply-to” address in an email message, as well as complying with the requirement to show it on their web pages.

Use saynoto0870.com
Can search by company name or phone number.
Gives alternative free phone and/or land line numbers.

I think your in the wrong job mate.

As a retired member of staff of a small branch of a major bank – You would do well to remeber that it is the customer who pays your salary
.I appreciate that you are paid silly money but take up this issuse with bank not the customer –
If you want to start a campaign for better pay I would certainly support this for a cheaper more efficient service from call centres.

Are you an EE staff member by any chance?

You have missed the point.
When a person rings to complain you cannot assume it is a churlish call not worthy of making.
The fact that you or others may disagree is beside the point.
I know from my own point of view that any complaint I make is important to me otherwise I would not ring an expensive 084 etc number to air it in the first place.I would instead, write a letter or email, if the latter an option, and would then wait for a reply.
It is not just complaint calls that cost heavy but all calls with no differentiation.
Interminable queues,ads,interlude music,interminable options (not always clear),being told ”All lines are busy but hang on as your call is important to us” etc etc are in my opinion all ploys to earn extra revenue for the company being called.
Extortion comes to mind.
Sorry, but the experiences I have had on this subject have left me quite bitter as you can tell.

If you don’t like the job leave. If you want to help people with problems stay. But why should it cost us to call if we have problems that the bank has coursed?

What do banks do with all these £15-£30 fees that they like giving us?

At present, only a draft of the proposed UK legislation has been published. BIS has only a few weeks left to publish the final version and present it to Parliament. The deadline for that is the middle of December 2013.

The timescale is tight and the Directive does not allow a non-compliance grace period. Once the new law is on the statute books (that might not be until February 2014), all users must comply with it by 12 June 2014.

Thank you, Ian.

You would think the likes of Marks and Spencer, John Lewis, Sky, and other well known and respected brands would try and gain some kudos by changing from their premium numbers now instead of waiting until the law compels them to change. It seems they care little for their customers views.

I would agree that M&S and John Lewis are both extremely well respected brands and have a reputation for excellent customer service. However, Sky have been one of the worst perpetrators of 084 and 087 numbers for many years, aggressively pushing these and frequently changing the underlying geographic numbers in a cat-and-mouse game to defeat the likes of SayNoTo0870.com.

HMRC make over £1 million per year (or at least the agency they use do) Just smile and grit your teeth when you wait twenty minutes listening to awfull music! Alternatively sit cursing and then try not to be grumpy with the lackey that answers as it is not their fault. Bloomin difficult though it is.

I get your point on Sky, the only supplier of golf coverage except a little on the BBC. I phoned them a few times as I was buying a Sky Go monthly sports ticket and hit a brick wall when trying to find an alternative number to 0844. They had shut down all the alternative numbers on ‘say no to 0870’ and either the number was unavailable or I got a recorded message telling me to use the 0844 number. Does any other company try so hard to avoid supplying a low cost telephone number to their customers. I wonder what they will do come 12 June 2014.

Yes, British Airways also does this. If you call BA on their 0191 number (which is intended for non-UK callers) from a UK line, you get a recorded message telling you to redial on their premium rate 0844 number. If you redial the 0191 number while withholding your UK number, you get through because they can’t detect where you’re calling from. Unfortunately passenger transport services (which includes airlines) is another sector for which the European Commission and BIS have unreasonably decided to preserve an exemption to Article 21 of Directive 2011/83/EU on Consumer Rights.

“customer service is not the prime reason for choosing a firm’s services. ”

I don’t 100% agree with that tbh mate. The first thing I look at when picking a company is there customer service (Are they on Twitter? Are they UK? etc), then the 2nd thing is price, then the rest.

It depends on the nature of the goods or services. If you expect never to need to speak to a supplier’s customer services, then it wouldn’t be a significant deciding factor.

With NHS England recently requesting all contractually non-compliant GPs to “explain their plans for swiftly moving away from 084 numbers”, HMRC recently completing their move from expensive 084 and 087 numbers to new 03 numbers, a commitment to follow suit obtained from DWP at the recent PAC enquiry, the Cabinet Office about to unveil a new policy based on 03 and 080 numbers for government departments and public services, BIS about to publish a new consumer rights law that will ban 084, 087 and 09 numbers for customer service lines and Ofcom shortly expected to officially announce a major overhaul to the way that call prices for non-geographic numbers are conveyed to consumers, the most amount of activity ever seen in dealing with these issues is currently under way. This should all have been done in 2007 or 2008, or shortly afterwards. It’s long overdue, but at least it is finally happening.

Lee, if you’re buying a PC for around £500 and the price is £80 more expensive in a shop where customer service is good. Are you willing to pay the extra? £80

No, i would go for £500 knowing that if there was a problem i could claim back via my credit card.

But if say i had 2 phone companies 1 at £20 a month with awful customer service and 1 for £23 a month and had a good twitter account i would go for the £23 a month one.

The reason why I am with Plusnet is due to them being in Yorkshire (20mins from me), customer service is good and Chris (the twitter team manager) is good too.

Does this also apply to the NHS Boards in Wales?

If a company provides a telephone number for customer services, we should not have to look for an alternative number to use because the given number is too expensive to call, no matter how old or young we are. Hopefully, all the offenders will be sorting themselves out by June 2014.

Lee, I pay £21.70 per month for 24/7 inclusive calls and unlimited broadband. I also have caller display, voicemail and inclusive calls to many European countries plus the US, Canada and I think Australia. How much would Plusnet charge for the same

I pay £17.50 per month (including VAT) for unlimited broadband, line rental and free weekend calls. I also have a block on my line that stops “private” “unknown” etc numbers from calling me.

You can also get caller display & voicemail for free. But I don’t use them.

You can pay £5 extra for 24/7 calls. But again, as i don’t make calls I don’t use that. As for European calls I have no idea as I do not call them, sorry.

I have been with TalkTalk and UW in the past but had problems. Plusnet have been really good so far and am happy 🙂

Thanks Lee, you are a mine of information.

When my contract comes up for renewal next year I will contact Plusnet. I did not think they had a 24/7 deal and that the price was so reasonable. I only phone two European countries on the list and usually talk for an hour on each call and about once a month. I did phone Microsoft USA earlier in the year to test their customer service, the call was inclusive and I was very impressed with them and the update on my dilemma, their call centre was in El Salvador. The ‘British’ side was also terrific and the call centre was in Romania. Very helpful and pleasant people all the way through. BT and Talk Talk are miles behind with their customer service centre, they could learn from Microsoft.

The legislation is due to be presented to Parliament in the next few weeks.

The date for compliance with the new law is 12 June 2014.

0845 numbers were local rate from landlines, but only until 2003.

0870 numbers were national rate from landlines, but only until 2003.

In 2003, BT scrapped the price differential between local and national calls to 01 and 02 numbers and began offering inclusive call plans. 0845 and 0870 numbers were not included and therefore became more expensive in comparison to calling inclusive 01 and 02 numbers.

Other 084 and 087 numbers have never been local or national rate and are never inclusive.

There’s no such thing as local rate on a mobile phone and it hasn’t existed for 01 and 02 numbers when called from landlines since 2003.

084 and 087 numbers are expensive. It is 03 numbers that are cheap to call, from both landlines and mobiles.

I disagree that before 2003 calls to 0845 were at local rate and calls to 0870 were national rate. This applied only to callers from BT landlines. Callers from other networks always paid a premium for these numbers above local or national rate, and likewise did so with 0345 and 0990, which were 0845’s and 0870’s predecessors. Interestingly, 0345 has recently been reintroduced as a genuinely non-surcharged prefix to replace some 0845 numbers.

From a mobile phone, calls to 0845 numbers are often charged at the same rate as calling an 0843, 0844 or 0870 number. Calls to those numbers are not inclusive within call plan allowances from mobiles.

From many landlines, 0845 numbers are often no cheaper to call than 0870 or other 084 numbers. However, BT call prices for 0845 numbers are abnormally low as they are capped by regulation. That regulation ends soon.

It is really only BT that includes 0845 numbers within call plans to any extent. They do this by using the revenue from all monthly call-plan subscriptions to subsidise the 2p/min Service Charge and hide it. 0845 numbers are rarely inclusive calls from other landlines.

Many organisations quote BT’s unusually low call prices in an attempt to justify retention of 0845 numbers. However, BT accounts for less than 40% of calls made from landlines. Mobile phones account for more than 50% of all calls made.

For most callers, there’s little difference between an 0845 number with a 2p/min Service Charge and an 0844 number at the lower end of the range with a 2p/min Service Charge. Ofcom’s “unbundled tariffs” system will make this very clear. It will also expose the “BT Anomaly” and then fix it.

Talk Talk also include 0870 and 0845 numbers in their call packages.

NHS England recently sent a letter to non-compliant GP practices still using 084 numbers.

It makes clear that 084 usage must come to an end. It explains that the supplier offers migration of the 084 telephone number to 03 without penalty. It clarifies this can be done without terminating the contract.

The letter from NHS England asks practices to “explain their plans for swiftly moving away from using an 084 number”. A copy of the letter is also available online for download. You can print it out and take it to the surgery.