Don’t close down cash now that we’re opening up

In the town where I live all the remaining free to use cash machines have now gone, tsb were the last to go when the branch closed just recently. And that was also the last bank in that town, now there’s none, the nearest are now about two miles away, which is also the nearest place where you can now get a mini statement for own account.

As of 30th August 2019 “ From today, should a high street be threatened with the loss of its last ATM, LINK will step in to ensure that a free-to-use ATM is made available and paid for with funding from all the UK’s main banks and building societies if there is no nearby Post Office counter to serve that community..
Does your High Street not have a Post Office – they dispense cash without charge.

Which? should be specific about those shops that will not accept cash. In my view a business is entitled to trade on its own terms and accept the consequences. If my local coffee shops chooses not to accept it my choice is not to use them. If my post office won’t sell stamps for cash, a different matter. But I fear a fear campaign is being spread and I would like to see some facts.

Malcolm, the reality is, sooner or later, hopefully later, technology will dictate we are going to have to learn to live without cash, and the focus should now switch to liaising with the financial institutions with a view to finding suitable replacement/s that don’t impinge on members of the public who are unable, or unwilling to keep pace with present technological advancement.

The BoE currently have no immediate plans to eradicate cash, otherwise they wouldn’t have gone to all the trouble of changing the old paper cheques to polymer, which will last much longer, but it does admit the likelihood that cash will eventually be phased out as more and more people automatically turn to card purchases.

bankofengland.co.uk – How Has Money changed Over Time? Will cash Die Out?

Looking forward, questions need to be raised with the banks to establish their future plans to accommodate the disadvantaged to ensure their financial needs are met.

I always worry when someone says “the reality is” as if it trumps other views. 🙂 I do not see it happening anytime soon. If people do not have bank accounts – and a significant number, over 1 million I believe, don’t – then I don’t see how they can use a card. It must be very difficult having no bank account though. And how will children deal with it – will they all have cash cards loaded by someone?

Likewise, I don’t think there are many “members of the public who are unable, or unwilling, to keep pace with present technological advancement” — if that’s what abolishing the use of cash is. I think for all but a handful of people cash is a practical necessity as has been so frequently revealed in all the thousands of comments that Which? Conversation has received on this topic.

Many members of the public also have legitimate concerns about the security of the so-called technological advances that are frequently emerging. There is no denying that contactless payment is a very convenient method of paying for some things with additional benefits [like when boarding a bus it speeds up the passenger flow] but like many modern applications it can be a solution looking for a problem and is not strictly necessary. Conversely, there are thousands of examples of where cash is virtually indispensable for various types of transaction for which economical, effective, trustworthy and, in particular, ‘pleasing’, alternatives are not available. People have tried to suggest otherwise but they have consistently failed to attract much support.

While the Bank of England “might currently have no immediate plans to eradicate cash” that is a perverse way of presenting the issue. It is not up to them, or the retail banks. A more positive guide is that the government has made, and reiterated many times, a commitment to retaining the availability of cash and is investing in alternative approaches to the supply of cash and its accessibility as Malcolm has so often reported.

I understand there is a current problem that large quantities of cash are currently being kept by people because they are out of the habit of spending it in shops or paying it back into their accounts. This has caused shortages of certain coins and new ones are having to be minted. There has recently been a pledge from the Bank of England that it will continue to issue 1p and 2p coins for as long as necessary, inflation being the enemy in this case but, rightly, it sees the ready availability of the lowest denomination coinage as helping to inhibit inflation.

Mooted not muted. Oh dear, back to school.

I hope the going cashless trend in pubs and shops is for speed and convenience and not out of an unwarranted fear of infection from handling money.

There are, of course, security implications and pilferage concerns with dealing in cash but it seems too coincidental that the present retreat from cash is associated with precautions around a prevalent disease.

Although I routinely use cards for payment, and some days when I am out have not spent a penny in cash, I cannot bring myself to go out with no coins in my pockets or notes in my wallet.

Can you “spend a penny” using a credit card?

Indeed. In fact the signals for cash are remaining on green. I propose this topic not be revisited for at least another twelve months. It’s tiresome having to constantly set the record straight because Which? just won’t note the reality.

”Change is inevitable, change is constant.”
Benjamin Disraeli

The facts, or reality, whichever you prefer, are supported by the Bank of Englands link in my above comment.

”While the future of cash is uncertain, it is unlikely that cash will die out any time soon.
Over the coming years, it is likely that alternative digital payment methods will become ever more widely accepted and used, in fact in 2017, debit cards overtook cash as the most frequently used payment method in the UK.”

Money is printed according to demand, which means, as digital payments become ever more popular, the need to print money will become less. You cannot hold back change. With that fact, or reality in mind, most successful businesses make forecasts in order to plan ahead for the future. This is fundamental to all business, and the same principle is applied by the banking industry.

“All progress takes place outside the comfort zone.”
Michael John Bobak

With that in mind, as Wavechange makes a valid point, a constructive way forward would be to hold a conversation to discuss alternative ways for people who currently rely on cash, to pay for future goods and services.

From the Bank of England’s website:
” What does the future hold for cash?

It is a fast and convenient way to pay
It is very widely accepted
It is helpful for budget management
Some people also like the fact that cash payment is entirely anonymous. It is easy to access cash, with over 45,000 cash machines in the United Kingdom that are free to use.“

As for spending time discussing in a Convo ” alternative ways for people who currently rely on cash, to pay for future goods and services.” this might be of interest to some, of course, but should not be approached, in my view, from the fallacious premise that they will have to do so because cash will no longer be available. We should not raise unfounded fear, much as it might generate publicity.

If the following is what you refer to then, as far as I can see, this service allows the beneficiary or their appointee to withdraw cash from a PayPoint outlet.
”Payment Exception Service
The Payment Exception Service is a way for people who do not have a bank account to collect benefit or pension payments. They’re only available in very limited circumstances.

a voucher by email
a text message with a unique reference number”

Just because something becomes “normal” – the most used perhaps – does not imply that all other methods will be withdrawn or cease. Just as the “normal” mode of transport is personal does not result in the abolition of public transport.

Yes, that is what I was referring to, which is a step in the right direction. Slow steady progress is better than daily excuses.

I, and thousands of people who have responded to Which? Conversations on this topic, do not see the total abolition of cash as an indicator of progress since it will cause some inconvenience to almost everyone, and significant disruption to the lives of many. I have not seen many examples of the advantages of a loss of cash facilities reported in the media but I have to accept there could be some for some people. No political party is advocating it, I notice.

What change is that? It’s the first I’ve heard of it. I have to live on benefits because of so many severe disabilities and there’s often been talk of denying cash to benefit claimants and instead issuing vouchers but that can cause serious problems for some of us, as I sometimes have to go to places like engineering merchants to get stuff for work on my home as we don’t all live in so-called “social” housing. And there’s far too much of a grossly pig-ignorant and very narrow minded attitude among some of those lucky enough to be able to work that all welfare claimants simply waste far too much money in places like betting shops, off licences and “convenience” stores where they supposedly all buy gallons of beer and lager and lottery tickets and filthy porn stuff etc. Well we’re certainly NOT all like that! Absolutely not! I’m fast approaching 60 and I’ve NEVER entered an active betting shop and I only drink fizzy water which I make myself with a sodastream as anything else now makes me seriously ill, and I absolutely DESPISE filthy porn, it makes me sick, it’s not remotely exciting and I don’t do lotteries either. Most of my money goes on food and various household and personal essentials as well as tools and hardware for my home etc. And occasionally some components for the odd electronic project or repair, and also occasionally the odd new part for an essential appliance, and the odd can of paint or water proofer and rot and woodworm killer etc. And right now my biggest spend is on my ongoing central heating installation. So STUFF the attitude of those far too quick to wrongly judge! I don’t think any engineering suppliers would accept lousy dwp vouchers, and I sometimes need stuff like extra heavy duty rawlbolts made from stuff like 8.8 steel as the cheapy ones in the local hardware shop or the big diy sheds are no good for some jobs like hanging a dirty great 90lb radiator on a wall, which don’t forget is much heavier when filled with water!

While the self service tills may generally only take cards – maybe the cash option was little used – I have seen no evidence of cash being refused at manned checkouts. Certainly they prefer to take card payments, but probably for convenience and speed. Have any supermarkets routinely refused cash in payment?

It is important that commerce reflects customer preferences in the provision of payment facilities so retailers will adjust the availability of their checkout machines to reflect demand [which is primarily for speed of throughput]. It does not follow from that that there is a planned route starting with Covid through exclusion from shops to the abolition of cash.

I do not stand in the way of modernisation and greater convenience for certain purposes but there is no need for these benefits to be at the expense of cash facilities which remain almost universally necessary at some level in order for our society to function sensibly for everyone. Fundamentally, the use of cash excludes no one, which cannot be said for any other system of exchange.

I HATE stupid self service payment machines as in my experience far too many of them keep refusing to work whenever I try and use them, or if they do work then they seriously short change me, so I have to take a stand with the staff to get what the stupid thing owes me or else far too often they absolutely WILL NOT accept ANY of my coins, or notes or my card either! Yet they’ll still work fine for anyone else, both before me and after, so I try another machine and it’s the same again, and a third one, still the same. So I’ve stopped going to supermarkets altogether. And this absolutely DOES happen so don’t anyone dare try and dispute it. I don’t find them remotely “convenient”.

That is certainly a risk and would be a most unwelcome development. I would hope there would be customer resistance and that traders will realise that the restriction is not worth it. I would also hope that if it became a significant trend the government would step in and legislate against it, at least up to the contactless card payment limit [changing from £45 to £100 on 15/10/21] so that a choice of payment method remains available. I don’t always carry my cards with me when I go out, especially in fine weather when I don’t want to wear a jacket, but I usually have cash on me so before I stroll down to the pub down the road or to the baker’s I would have to remember to get my cards out and take them with me. I think premises that impose such a rule should be expected to declare the justification for it at this particular time. A side concern is that it will become even more difficult to keep track of the cost of a pint or a loaf and inflation will take off.

The Intro to this Conversation tells us that ” . . . over 80% of people thought that businesses and shops should continue to take cash, including those that don’t use it themselves. Businesses agree. A recent Post Office survey revealed that far from finding cash to be a relic of the past, two thirds of firms thought it was important to the recovery of the UK retail industry“.

I’m on holiday in Oxfordshire at present and two of the pubs I have visited have prominent notices to ensure that visitors are aware that they are cashless. I expect they are the exception and they were chosen because they had outdoor seating.

What would happen if you ordered a round of drinks, they were poured, and then you offered cash to pay saying you didn’t have any alternative?

Pub landlords have a reputation for refusing to accept cheques or to put bar bills on the slate, but now some want to go further and reject cash for no particular reason. Do they want their trade to recover, or not?

I don’t know, John. At present I’m trying to stay outside pubs or if necessary go through to get to the outdoor seating area.

I would be more concerned if essential consumer-facing businesses were to generally refuse cash. Perhaps there is some information about this? The parliamentary report 2019 told then that 100% of convenience stores accepted cash:
”A 2019 survey found that 100 per cent of convenience stores accept cash, with 95 per cent accepting debit card and 88 per cent taking contactless payments. Indeed, data from 2018 showed that three-quarters (76 per cent) of convenience store customers paid by cash, reflecting the low average spend (£6.50) when visiting such shops.”
I think we need this kind of information when worrying about the very unlikely demise of cash. Not anecdotal reports but properly structured surveys.

If “two thirds of firms thought it ( payment in cash)was important to the recovery of the UK retail industry“.” then why is the facility likely to cease?

Welcome to beautiful Oxfordshire Wavechange. I can’t vouch for the pubs, but the village store still accepts cash.
I’ll put the kettle on 🙂

Depends where you are in Oxon but if you are near Bucks then I’d be happy, after your tea with Beryl, to treat you to a real ale from my local Chiltern Brewery.

I went round the Oxford Botanic Garden yesterday and there was a prominent sign indicating CARD PAYMENT ONLY. Elsewhere I saw a sign saying ‘JUST SO YOU KNOW we are still CASHLESS.

It is difficult to know whether those premises not currently taking cash will resume doing so, but with the continuing pandemic, those who want to use cash will have fewer options.

It would be good to have a clear message that handling cash and touching keypads is very unlikely to infect you.

Thanks for the kind offers but I’m on holiday with a friend and we have limited amount of time before heading back up north. 🙁

I meant to include this photo:

Perhaps the management will reconsider. There are not too many botanic gardens, so it’s different from avoiding the odd pub or shop that does not take cash.

Consumer pressure helped to save cheques, but many businesses will not accept them. I carry some cash in case I need it.

A cheque is not a guaranteed form of payment so a business needs to trust its customer before accepting one as payment.

I carry cash and, while on holiday last week, used some to pay for parking, a guide book, a payment to the cleaners, drinks, a children’s soft play visit, the lottery……. On my return I replenished my wallet at an ATM. Generally I use a credit card, both for convenience and to track my spending.

Cheques remain a useful way of paying friends if they do not use online or mobile banking. The banks removed the cheque guarantee from our debit cards years ago. 🙁

When I still went to supermarkets not so long ago, up until early last year, 2020, I sometimes found my card declined when I still had plenty in my account and I also hadn’t anywhere near over spent on it either, but strangely enough the card still worked in local cash machines and it still worked when tested at the local bank branch and it hadn’t been frozen either, so what happened? And I once had to leave my own packed shopping trolley in the supermarket while I went out to a cash machine to get some more cash as I didn’t have enough on me and then go back to the supermarket and pay and then get my shopping back. And I’ve no idea what happened but I think there must be some kind of obscure fault somewhere on one or more supermarket card readers in that town causing some kind of obscure failure on my card, and each time this has happened I had to get a new card from the bank. So this is yet another serious reason why we MUST keep cash payments which must be made a fundamental legal right. And of course don’t forget some seriously disabled folk have serious problems remembering stuff like PIN numbers, as do some suffers of dementia for instance and those people still need to go shopping.