/ Money, Shopping

Brexit: what are your financial concerns?

Brexit EU referendum flag

Last week the UK voted to leave the EU. Whatever your views on Brexit, it’s clear that we’re set for a period of uncertainty when it comes to our personal finances.

We’ve set out the main ways that the vote to leave the EU might affect your wallet, but it’s clear that definitive answers about what will happen may be hard to come by, at least in the short term.

Brexit and interest rates

Savers face uncertain times when it comes to their interest rates. The Bank of England (BoE) base rate has been stuck at a record low 0.5% since 2008, in order to encourage banks to lend and boost the economy. Now, with fears about a possible recession, the Bank may cut the rate to 0.25% or even 0%.

The Governor of the BoE, Mark Carney, stated in his speech on the morning after the referendum that the Bank would consider ‘any additional policy responses’. It’s thought that the first rate cut may happen in August, but this is purely speculation.

The logic of lower interest rates is to make it cheaper to borrow money, which in turn will make people more likely to spend, boosting the economy. This would mean more bad news for savers, but better news for homeowners and those in the market for a mortgage.

Beyond the immediate term, it’s possible that interest rates could start to rise, especially if inflation becomes a concern. It’s thought that inflation may become a problem as the result of a weaker British pound, which could lead to increased prices from the supermarket to the petrol pump.

Uncertain times for investors

Investors, including anyone with a pension invested in the stock market, face a period of uncertainty. And since stock markets hate uncertainty, investors should expect big swings in prices over the coming months.

The FTSE 100 index, which is made up of large, often multi-national companies with earnings around the world, fell substantially in the immediate aftermath of the referendum vote, although it has since bounced back to an extent. The FTSE 250, which is made up of mostly medium-sized and domestically-focused companies, fell more dramatically. At the time of writing the FTSE 250 has also recovered some ground, but is still down by more than 10% since the start of 2016.

However, long term investors with balanced portfolios should be well placed to ride out the storm. And if interest rates are cut you would usually expect shares to go up, all else being equal, as frustrated cash investors seek better returns from riskier assets. The Chancellor George Osborne, following Mark Carney’s lead, has sought to reassure the markets about the strength of the UK economy.

Homeowners post EU referendum

And homeowners may face a less rosy outlook than they’ve become accustomed to, with speculation about the impact the wider economic climate might have on the property market. It’s possible that the market will slow down, as buyers decide to wait and see what happens to asking prices. On the other hand, lower mortgage rates could stimulate demand.

Your Brexit concerns

Which? is committed to helping you with the difficult questions you might face following the UK’s vote to leave the EU. And as negotiations to leave the EU develop, we will work with the government to ensure that the consumer voice is heard and important rights are protected.

Our Which? Money Helpline experts have fielded some Brexit questions since the result of last week’s EU referendum. Some callers have been concerned about their pensions; others wanted to find out whether their savings were safe. We’ve also heard from concerned homebuyers.

We’ll be covering all these issues in Which? Money magazine and on Which.co.uk in the coming weeks and months. We also want to hear what you’re most concerned about here on Which? Conversation.

Will you be making any changes to your personal finances following the EU referendum results? Are there any consumer issues related to Brexit that are worrying you, whether personal finance or not?

Comments
Profile photo of wavechange
Member

I am most concerned that the referendum has split the nation.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Ah yes ! wavechange it certainly has and skirting round it as in -if we dontb talk about it it will go away wont work as the Scots feel they have been unjustly treated due to the 2014 Referendum in which cameron said –and I quote- if you (the Scots ) leave then you will be kicked out of the EU and guess what they are being kicked out of the EU ,by ,in their eyes , dis enfranchment due to the voting imbalance . It was made clear this was an incentive to start Independence MK 2 . As you all know Scotland is Left wing leaning ,always was they dont mind being taxed on the NHS and other social areas unlike England , funnily enough it has attracted a large number of people from England moving to Scotland due to the better welfare services , free university,prescriptions etc etc . The polls put a majority for leaving the UK now . Now the usual outpouring from England is- get rid and a lot worse on news websites but Which being a bit more intellectual I would like to hear a reasoned response and please keep it civil !

Profile photo of AlanHearn
Member

I’ve only just just stopped dancing in the street, after campaigning for over twenty years to get us out! Having no wish to live in the USSR, I had no desire for my children or grandchildren to grow up nor myself grow old in the EUSSR under the corrupt, undemocratic and unreformable politbureau that is the European Commision.
And yes, the referendum has proved (if proof was needed) this is a divided country; if you want to divide it even further, hold another referendum – if the result had gone 4% the other way what chance do you think the Leave side would have got to have a re-reun to see if they could fiddle the result?

Profile photo of Ian
Member

Do love hearing from such well-informed and open-minded people such as yourself. Just a shame that you’re wrong, really.

But your comment is completely off topic. The question was “what are your financial concerns?”. I assume the fact that the pound plunged to a 31 year low won’t concern you? Because it should, since oil is priced in dollars…

Profile photo of Patrick Steen
Member

Hi, yes it would be great to stay on the topic of financial concerns. I will be honest that we tweaked the title to make this topic clearer, so I apologise if it wasn’t clear before.

Any concerns related to other consumer issues are also fine, as per the two questions from Harry at the end:

“Will you be making any changes to your personal finances following the EU referendum results? Are there any consumer issues related to Brexit that are worrying you, whether personal finance or not?”

Member
Jeannette Greaves-Smith says:
29 June 2016

Sorry Ian, it has now inched back up as has the stock market and shares. It was the day after that it dropped to an all time low. I hope you remember Black Wednesday and John Majors blunder. We survived that and we can survive the future as a country away from the EU.
We have been a great nation for thousands of years , we have only been a part of the EU for just over 40 years so, I am ready to look forward to a future once again as a sovereign Country not as a disfunctioning EU which is collapsing around its ears. I also see you show your Flag of Scotland on your post if most of the Scottish people are so in love with the EU then why do you not fly the EU flag with the same pride. Nicola Sturgeon is making a fool of herself and the Scottish people in my opinion by begging the EU to let them stay which is nauseating to watch. I am flying my English flag with pride from now on. PS hope the Scottish People do not get upset when we change the Barnet Formula which give the Scottish people Free University Education, free Prescriptions unlike we English people , maybe the EU will have something similar to the Barnet Formula, my guess is you will have to pay a high price for it though.

PS Ian, most commodities and trade is priced in dollars . I own my own Transport and Logistics company and have been working with Imports and Exports for most of my working life. I have dealt with Tariff rates before the single European Market and customs and Excise so should know a little about the markets and free movements. We can now start trading on the world markets and our commonwealth countries again with no EU intrusion or sanctions stopping us Simple.
If we have to leave the single market then we will take that hurdle in our stride.
PS, I really do not think the EU want you without the rest of the UK/ England. I would be surprised, you are not large enough or rich enough as a country for them. Ps I love Scotland and after the Lake District and Dales it is my favourite place to holiday especially Skiing. I would end with the comment I have no worries about the British economy outside of the EU it can only get better . It bwill take a little time to adjust . SIMPLE

[Sorry Jeannette, your comment has been tweaked to align with our Community Guidelines. Thanks, mods]

Profile photo of Lauren Deitz
Member

Hello Jeanette, I know that this could be a very heated debate and it’s all too tempting. But we’re really keen to hear people’s concerns (if any) about personal finance issues and Brexit, so in the interests of keeping a healthy discussion going can I please ask that we all avoid the urge to turning this into a Leave/Remain debate. Thank you

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

You seem to forget Jeanette (French extraction ? ) that Nicola is only putting forward the wishes of the Scottish people and this Barnet Formula has been proved during the war of words during the referendum to be a false flag as the Scots input to Westminster more than they get back. Dont you realise you are speaking from an English nationalistic point of view ? nothing wrong with that but to use nationalism against the Scots as being wrong is hypocritical . The Scots have only been part of the UK or should I say ,England for 300 years and the Scottish Lords and Ladies were bribed with gold and English land to sell Scotland away all the uprisings of the Scottish 99 % were put down brutally . I am only stating fact . How do you know Ian is Scottish just because of the icon ? , he might be more English than you . I take an even handed view it cant be all one -sided.

Profile photo of DerekP
Member

Hi Duncan / All,

I thought that Scotland took over England (&Wales) when James VI became James I…

Back on topic, I expect we will all be financially worse off now.

But, we will have greater sovereignty as compensation.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Derek -not politically he was a figurehead he had many run -ins with Parliament but you are right -we will have greater sovereignty , but the ability to run the country isnt down to rhetoric its down to intelligence and the strength of will to make policies that benefit the population of the country

Profile photo of AlanHearn
Member

Sorry, when I posted my comment I was all full of excitement at the World of opportunity that can open up to us now we are escaping the narrow minded, tunnel visioned, head burying, self centred navel-gazers of the EU!
As the disabled carer of a severely disabled partner of course I have financial concerns; however, much as I hate to burst your bubble, I have to inform you that despite the rubbish Gordon Brown was trying to sell a while back capitalism IS boom and bust, and if you want to do away with that you need to start campaigning to escape an even bigger club for the rich than the EU (I’m game if you are)? Even if Brexit does cost us short term as we ride the roller coaster that is global economics we’ll have gained more than simply paying for governments, banks and fatcats to add “too big to fail” to the definition of “capitalism”, so I’m still dancing.
P.S. Simply saying I’m wrong does not make it so.

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

The best thing to do about your finances is probably – nothing. Uncertainty simply means no one knows what is going to happen so taking significant decisions now is just a gamble. I will wait for the dust to settle.

The UK has weathered the 2008 recession better than European countries and it has done so without any support from Europe. I don’t see therefore why it cannot continue to stand on its own feet. There will be childish and spiteful remarks from politicians (do we really need politicians?) but it is our businesses and institutions that will decide our economic future. What I would like to see is more home-grown manufacturing as well as maintaining the strength of financial services.

As a net contributor (one of only 3) the EU will be financially worse off without us, But none of this will happen for at least 2 years.

The nation, as in most topics, was already split. The referendum just showed the extent. Just like the nation is split in political views. I might emigrate to Scotland though if things turn out badly.

Profile photo of Ian
Member

And you’d be very welcome, Malcolm 🙂

Profile photo of Sophie Gilbert
Member

“Will you be making any changes to your personal finances following the EU referendum results? Are there any consumer issues related to Brexit that are worrying you, whether personal finance or not?” No, and no. I’m not burying my head in the sand, I just think no-one has any answers right now. I look forward to more related info and convos coming from Which? as there undoubtedly will be, but now is too soon. Can’t wait for Indy Ref 2 and vote Scotland back into the EU (and like Ian welcome malcolm r, and other beautiful migrants), but mainly, I’m keeping calm and carrying on.

Profile photo of John Ward
Member

As I judge the mood of the country right now, I don’t think there would be a need for a second Scottish referendum. If put to the vote in England and Wales the response might unfortunately be “For heaven’s sake . . . go!” such is the attitude of division and despicion that has been unleashed.

I hope we restore order quickly now and that the opportunistic showboating and grandstanding [if not to say band-waggoning] will soon cease. We have an economy to fix, a myriad of social problems to sort out within the country including, in no particular order, housing, health & welfare, law & order, borders & security, education, and trade & industry, and it’s about time the mouthy politicians got on with them. There are times when it’s difficult to tell whether we are in limbo or have reached purgatory. The one big issue that has divided the country for decades, and seen off three prime ministers, has now been settled whether people like it or not so there is no need to keep grinding on about it. We need to move on, move up a gear, and show our strengths in the financial, humanitarian and entrepreneurial arenas. Constant recriminations will get us nowhere.

Although a reduction in interests rates is often followed by comments that it is good news for homeowners and for those in the market for a mortgage, it is usually the case that any fall in mortgage interest rates leads to house price inflation which in general is not a good thing. I think mortgagors would be well advised to take any opportunity from lower rates to pay down as much of their mortgage as they can in readiness for the eventual reversal which could easily see monthly payments doubling but little prospect of income growth.

So far as our personal financial circumstances are concerned I think Malcolm’s and Sophie’s guidance is sound: do nothing until the picture becomes clearer. Prices will be affected and savings and pensions could suffer, but the warnings were out there and the nation felt the outcome was worth the consequences. A few weeks ago, as part of my contingency planning, I was looking at properties in Belgium contemplating a move there but I was put off by the appalling decor in most of them.

Profile photo of Ian
Member

Problem is that I suspect the divisions will continue, and that the financial climate will suffer as a consequence.

Profile photo of Patrick Taylor
Member

I am in some ways astonished that Which? that has studiously avoided all references to TTIP or TISA , which are incredibly invasive of national interests AND consumers , feels justified in launching a Brexit topic. Is there some agenda regarding complex treaties for the benefit of multi-nationals versus consumers …..

” … we will work with the government to ensure that the consumer voice is heard and important rights are protected. ”

Seems so bizarre that years of TTIP secret negotiations and not a whimper from Which? but Brexit ,which is so totally in the air and may never happen given Parliament needs to agree, gets instant coverage.

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

dt, “ensure that the consumer voice is heard and important rights are protected” is a bit late and nothing that brexit should have occasioned. Having a dedicated minister or undersecretary of state with the consumer affairs brief would be a start. Another would be setting up a National Trading Standards that oversees all local TSs, all deal with the public directly, all reports are properly collated and where appropriate are held and acted on nationally with visibility to the public. Then we might get more participation and action to curb bad practice and bad products.

Profile photo of Patrick Taylor
Member

You are absolutely right malcom. Those ideas would indicate a serious intent by Government and yet were not addressed.

The NAtional Trading Body overseeing I think perhaps a little fraught as I think Council’s need local control of their TSO’s. However for National problems as in the dryers or say vehicle model violations then a national body.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

diesel your right about your last paragraph and to me too this is just as massive as Brexit but Which is in a “cant win ” situation , it is a very big political “hot potato ” and I understand why Which would not like to comment because it is so big an issue . Its constantly all over the Internet involving political parties locally and the IMF/World Bank also Western economic strategists who are going for an EU take over to strengthen the US BB trade so that the combined area economic block works in US interest against Russia shutting out Russia from trade with the EU so far in sanctions but militarily sitting on Russia,s borders getting ready for WW3 and Europe is the sacrifice . Locally I am wondering if the new PM will start independent negotiations for TTIP to be introduced to this country ,now thats an answer I would like a response to.

Profile photo of Patrick Taylor
Member

I think you are wrong DL as BUEC has been posting on TTIP regularly. Providing information is not a for or against proposition which makes the Which? position of ignoring it completely despite its potential huge effects on everyone in the UK seem rather odd.

If it does not wish to comment then copy and post BUEC research.

One might think any treaty being negotiated where even MEP’s are kept in the dark but multi-nationals have an inside track is fundamentally wrong.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Excuse my ignorance – BUEC ?

Profile photo of Patrick Taylor
Member

OOPS! BEUC

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_European_Consumer_Organisation

there is several items om TTIP in the first link and mentions in the second
beuc.eu/trade
beuc.eu/publication/reports?keys=ttip#publication

and on health this is very punchy
beuc.eu/publications/beuc-x-2016-037_health_in_ttip_factsheet.pdf

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Very interesting diesel didnt know it existed as I didnt realise an upfront socially accepted organisation would print the truth . Some interesting facts that I already have from more radical websites including the Canadian version of TTIP , thanks for that diesel I am always after information from any source . So are you saying that as Which is affiliated to BEUC it would make it curious that it doesnt at least reprint its information ? Funnily enough I have two browsers in action and have just seen a box appear on the BEUC website advertising one of Which,s issues . But BEUC is based in Brussels what is politically okay to say there is not the same as here in the UK on Which,s website which I know would upset America . Its one thing posters saying it but it might affect Which,s international position if it appeared to accept or even acknowledge the viewpoints there. I know American politicians and BB very well they would not be amused . This might seem funny coming from me but if I had the same thought patterns as those in charge of Which I too would be reluctant to comment but you never know I might be proved wrong but I personally dont criticise Which for not doing it as I am a realist.

Profile photo of Patrick Taylor
Member

Regarding this Conversation in a time of confusion – I quote from the linked article as I think it demonstrates the dangers for Which? Money in an area where comment is wrong or out-dated very quickly.

How will it affect my investments?
In the lead-up to the referendum, the UK stock market, and many of those around the world, were increasingly volatile. Stock market traders hate uncertainty, so markets rallied before the vote, as late polls indicated that a ‘remain’ win was likely.

I have been dabbling in stocks and shares for decades and categorically “stock market traders” love volatility as that is where you make money by going long or short in positions. Uncertainty and exaggerated swings in the market are manna from heaven for traders. Now investors hate volatility but that is not what the article says.

……………………..

Will it affect pensions?
Anyone with a pension invested in the stock market is likely to suffer significant losses in value, at least in the short term.

FTSE today highest for a month. Recovered all losses and more since Brexit result. Therefore the significant losses comment appears to be inaccurate.

Profile photo of Harry Rose
Member

Thank you for your thoughts.

On the point about the markets, the distinction is between uncertainty and volatility. The markets rallied before the vote, because the ‘status quo’ seemed to be the likely outcome based on some last-minute polls. Traders felt more confident about investing, so prices went up. Traders hate uncertainty in the sense that it makes them want to sell assets – that’s all I meant. The line you quote remains, in my view, an accurate description of what happened in the run up to the result of the referendum. Of course, I also agree with you – many traders like volatility because it gives them opportunities to make money.

On pensions, significant losses were suffered in the very short term. With hindsight, I would have said ‘immediate term’ rather than ‘short term’. However, while it’s true that the FTSE 100 index has, at the time of writing, gone back up, the FTSE 250 is still down significantly.

Finally, I agree that with events moving so quickly, articles can quickly become dated. However, that isn’t a reason not to publish, it’s a reason to publish more regularly (and make sure that our news coverage is date stamped). We’ll be covering Brexit, and what it means for our personal finances, extensively on which.co.uk over the coming weeks and months.

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

Harry, all true but we should ensure that financial decisions are made in a considered way and not worry people into thinking “what must I do now”. The bottom will not fall out of the market because essentially the UK’s economic strengths are no different pre and post brexit. We need to give the speculators time to get out of distorting the price of sterling and equities and let the markets settle; this may take months as negotiations progress but no one need take emergency action on pensions, savings, houses or investments. We were patient with the 2008 recession and weathered that storm by being patient. The future, if we approach it sensibly, will be different but full of potential where can can have more control over decisions that affect out national finances and, therefore, individual prosperity.

Profile photo of VynorHill
Member

I was wondering how long it would be before Which mentioned the recent referendum. This is somewhat of a back-door approach and the door is still on the chain!. I do agree with Wavechange that I bitterly regret the divisions this has brought about. I am intrigued at the response from the E.U. today saying that our single market is dependent of the four freedoms and, particularly, free movement. This is despite one, “loud mouth” declaring to its parliament that they need us more than we need them and they wouldn’t wish to stop trading. Is this posturing, or what is going to occur? I agree with some that we can probably find trade elsewhere, but this hasn’t happened yet and in the short term, at least, our exports are going to take a hit. Of course, if Scotland decides to leave us -and it will be a brave PM that tries to stop that if push comes to shove, then we will be diminished in the world and this will also affect our ability to trade and remain a significant country. The worst scenario is that of a third world Britain where we will be living a far less prosperous life. The most hopeful is one where we open new markets and manage to make friends with our neighbours once more. I must admit to being very depressed and certainly don’t see my finances improving any time soon.

Profile photo of Patrick Taylor
Member

There is a financial benefit to England, Wales and Northern Ireland if Scotland leaves to join the EU as AFAIR it get considerable support from the UK taxpayer. I am not sure I have seen this benefit factored into anyone’s figures so far.

theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/24/ifs-scotland-debts-three-times-greater-uk

“A fresh economic forecast released to coincide with the day Scotland was to become independent has warned the country’s deficit has deepened, projected to be more than three times greater than the UK.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies figures ……..

If Scotland had declared independence on 24 March – the day chosen by then SNP leader Alex Salmond before he lost the 2014 referendum campaign, its population would be facing an overall deficit of £2,850 per head in the 2016/17 financial year compared with £850 per head across the UK, the IFS said.
With the recent collapse in oil prices, its analysis showed that if Scotland’s geographical share of oil tax receipts was included, the black hole in its annual accounts would reach £12.2bn in 2020 and then to £12.8bn in 2021, some 6% of its GDP.

In its previous forecast, the deficit for 2020 was predicted to be £9.7bn. By contrast, according to the latest Office of Budget Responsibility predictions using projected spending cuts at Westminster, the UK would see a surplus of 0.5% of GDP in both those years.”

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

A very honest and realist post Vynor I am impressed !

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

While the Scottish government can supply figures counteracting some of your points diesel and I am sure it would make a lot of people happy at the money they reckon they will save ,if as many say , “poor old Scotland ” will be at a beggars level if they vote out, this is not going to affect any future vote for indy 2 . as the Scots realised they were lied to continually throughout the referendum of 2014 including the “Vow ” which was a pack of lies by a Scot whose prestige in Scotland is zero now . No all the propaganda from the media machine -UK is going to fall flat on its face . You can con the Scots once but not twice they are extremely angry at being thrust out the EU and being lied to . They have been patronized bullied and it doesnt help that many English voices including MP,s and prominent people think Scotland doesnt count and that they must be told what to do by their betters .

Member
dieseltaylor says:
30 June 2016

The Scottish situation is interesting as from an EU perspective the idea they will take on another nation running a deficit would seem fraught. It would be Greece but without any chicanery hiding the figures as happened during its accession to the EU.

For younger readers the Greek Govts, with collusion from some US banks, lied to make it appear that Greece met the solvency requirements of the EU. There is also a whiff that the EU bureacrats smelt a rat but ignored it to expand the group.

So decades later it unravelled very painfully. Reforms to the Greek economy so that spending was manageable should have occurred before EU membership. Scotland on its own and joining the EU will be problematic.

Overall though in a fifty year time scale I would hope that the parts of the UK will be members. The anomaly of tiny states with a population smaller than the major UK cities , Luxembourg 550,000, wagging the dog will be ended.

Mr Juncker author of the dodgy tax details benefitting Luxembourg to the detriment of fellow EU states being the current President of the EU.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Dont get me wrong diesel I dont have any great love of the EU and yes corruption exists but it also exists in the City of London but it will be “our own corruption ” now . As I said in a previous post ,it took me 5 minutes to make up my mind standing in a polling booth which way to vote , not because I was daily emailed from the government sponsored Remain but because of the EU,s behind the scenes TTIP and CETA which in my opinion will remove all the independence of this country in its laws and way of life and have them run by American BB and then where would be the justification for all the patriotic cries and songs when you would be better to put your hand on heart and salute “Old Glory ” as that would be more truthful . But I had to contend with the fact that the same could happen anyway even if we left and still not be told about it. Also the fact I knew Scotland would want out the Union which ,IMHO is as much a determent to England as any criticism of leaving the EU. I was also looking at the bigger picture of Obommer wanting one cohesive group to run economically and militarily so that it presents an united front to the mythical Russian “aggression ” which is just an excuse for a world war for financial gain and full control of all world trade.

Profile photo of Patrick Taylor
Member

It is very complex and to be honest there is no easy answer to in or out and where we should go. My favourite immediate action which I believe would make the public feel more valued :

A reform of the voting system I think would be hugely important given people are feeling dis
-enfranchied . UKIP and the Liberals polled 6.3m votes and got 9 seats whilst the SNP polled 1.5m votes and got 56 seats in Westminster.

I am not really worried about parties I am more concerned that an electoral system is so unfair that people quite rightly do not think Westminster represents the population.

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

dt, we should abolish constituencies and simply elect from all the parties standing, with a list of their representatives in order of priority, by proportional representation. However we will never satisfy everyone, no more than the EU referendum can.

Those who need to worry about personal finances after Brexit are not the wealthy, reasonably comfortable, or those with their own homes and decent pensions, but those who are dependent upon the state, particularly on the state pension, benefits and the NHS. These depend upon taxes, and taxes depend upon a healthy business environment. Hopefully business will now no longer be constrained by Europe; we can market products as Made in Britain, label food “British” and when we have to go out to tender for projects we won’t be forced to advertise and accept European contenders – we can restrict the winners to British companies and labour. I hope the new government will help expand British industry to provide products for us. Why buy trains from Germany and Japan when we could make them here?

We also need to support controlled spending at local and national government levels. In particular, we need to control subsidies and now we don’t have to administer a common agricultural policy, for example, we should only subsidise where it is really in our national interests (steel perhaps and protecting the environment) and not distribute money to wealthy landowners.

So I am optimistic that we have opportunities to rebuild a Britain where we make our own decisions in our own interests – if we have a government that will meet that challenge. Then our personal finances will not only be protected but they will prosper.

Profile photo of John Ward
Member

I was thinking along the same lines the other day, Malcolm. There won’t be this expensive necessity of advertising all major public works contracts in the Official Journal of the European Union. This hasn’t stopped us buying Japanese trains because they are being partly-built and fully assembled in County Durham and fitted out with many components manufactured in the UK, but our German trains and tramcars are made in Germany and imported through the Channel tunnel, and the Spanish-built trains and tramcars are built in Spain and shipped to the UK. We still have a major UK railway rolling stock production facility in Derby and it would be entirely feasible to become self-sufficient again in this important engineering activity. If we keep our heads the same could apply to trucks and buses as we have a thriving automotive manufacturing industry with a global market. We can rebuild the UK steel industry without having to worry about whether we contravene EU regulations in the process.

I would have preferred to remain part of the EU but now that we are going to separate I feel we have to grasp every opportunity to invest in our key industries, build up the research and development functions, tap our entrepreneurial and financial resources, and create a whole new generation of skilled people to exploit markets all over the world. I have been concerned about the insularity that became evident throughout the referendum campaign so we have a challenge to turn that around to a modern outward-looking aspect and demonstrate to younger people that we haven’t stolen their future.

Profile photo of Beryl
Member

The comments, as interesting and informative as they are, at this stage are purely speculative which doesn’t help calm the situation we find ourselves in. It is not very realistic to expect people to comment on how Brexit will affect them personally as, at this early stage it is impossible for people to know how their finances will be affected. The volitility of the markets was expected and will continue for some time but for now we need to focus on the election of a new strong PM to lead the country back to stability and convince the world we are still worth investing in.

The SNP need to understand the recent referendum involved the UK in its entirety and was not intended as an excuse to justify breaking up the Union. They ought to consider the 38% (about 1.5 million) Scottish people who voted to leave the EU and it would be interesting to hear their views on the possible breaking up of the Union.

It is now up to the present government to elect a new leader as soon as possible in order to start the parliamentary wheels in motion again and to work to convince all the people in the UK we are much stronger together, to enable us to ride the inevitable roller coaster we face and that is more likely to be achieved by reuniting all of its citizens irrespective of the way they voted.

Reconciliation and patience in the meantime is key and the only way forward to enable us to confront the difficult times that lie ahead and to demonstrate to the world the British Bulldog spirit that got us through two world wars in the last century is still very much alive in the present one.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Your second paragraph Beryl -consider the 38 % – just as much as Westminster “considers” or “considered ” the 45 % who voted for Independence there ? When all you get is -accept it you (the Scots ) were beaten -dont complain etc from the media/government and others .

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

The problem is there will always be a diversity of opinion, whether it is in the selection of politicians ans parties, leaving the EU or independence. We seem to have always to bow to the majority, however slender. What we should be doing is working out compromises that meet near halfway both the big majority and the nearly big minority – we all have to live together.

For politics it should be proportional representation so all views are properly represented.

For the EU we should have worked harder to change the structure, or worked harder to lay down a plan for the UK if we left so we all knew what we would be working towards, instead of leaving us in a vacuum. So neither side would feel a victory or defeat, just a better way forward.

For “independence” we should be working out better ways to work together as a United Kingdom instead of pandering (perhaps) to political ambitions. But we don’t want to really work at such problems because there are too many vested interests.

Funny that Michael Gove, having worked against the PM is now working against Boris. I wonder if his family and himself have seen a devious way to help his career, or is it all genuine seeing the light? Damn, I realise I’ve missed the deadline to put my name in the frame.

Moderators, please feel free to remove blatant political statements. They are not meant to be political, just observations.

Profile photo of Lauren Deitz
Member

Hello Malcolm, I’m resisting the urge for moderators comments as I appreciate that this is going to be a difficult conversation to have without some mention of politics. But can I please remind all of you to try your very best to resist the urge to over-politicise this discussion. As much as I’m sure we all enjoy a good political debate, we’re really keen to scope out your specific consumer concerns here and it’ll end up getting trickier for us to do so if we continue to talk politics. Thanks 🙂

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

@ldeitz, thanks Lauren. Give in to your urge – don’t resist. I just felt the urge to separate what we really need to deal with in regard to the referendum result from the politics behind it, and try to suggest ways to heal the “split” that was pointed out at the beginning. We should all get on with making brexit work in all our interests.

Having made my comment I am, in fact, against these Convos carrying political statements and regretted making one myself. so I am quite happy for you to remove the offending text.

I do think it too early to be suggesting people should think about changes they might make and hope Which? will think very carefully about what to say. Everything at the moment is speculative, guesswork, unsubstantiated in my view and until we see the terms of our exit develop and the markets are returned to the rational investors I doubt we should make any important decisions, particularly on investments, pensions, housing for example that should all be regarded as long term commitments, Just my own cautious view. 🙂

Profile photo of Beryl
Member

Duncan the point I was attempting to convey in my second para. was the recent referendum resulting numbers were based upon and included the UK electorate as a whole whereas the Scottish 2014 referendum was confined to Scotland only, the majority electing to remain a part of the U.K. Losing electorate are entitled to their views as well as the winning side, expressing the reason why they voted the way they did. It is always interesting to hear both sides of a situation which doesn’t necessarily mean complaining.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

I am all for balance Beryl as long as both sides are able to put a view , no problem with that , but a point was made long ago by the Scottish government that in event of a Brexit and Scotland voting to remain by a large majority then steps would be taken on behalf of the Scots to remain in the EU quite even handedly to leave all avenues open the FM bowed to the wishes of the majority vote taken in Holyrood to try every avenue hence visiting Brussels . That she was rebuffed only adds to her case that she tried democratically to carry out the wishes of those in Scotland and leaves her with no choice in the matter than to pursue it in another direction. No matter whom says what this isnt going to go away much as many want it to and I am not a person to hide my head in the sand and live in a pretend reality regardless of any situation in life . This is going to be big news in the media as time goes on and will involve trade etc so I will leave it there for now.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Stop press ! Boris has ruled himself out of the “race ” for PM . Whats that I hear church bells sounding in my ears ?

Profile photo of John Ward
Member

ruled himself out of the ‘race’ for PM” is an interesting way of putting it. He was decapitated by Gove in a dawn ambush. Leadership material?

Profile photo of Ian
Member

Or, knowing that whomever becomes leader next will, in fact, have something of a poisoned chalice and probably end up being hated by all and sundry, allowing him to present himself again as the saviour 🙂 It’s an idea being widely espoused at the moment.

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

Ian, him………or her 🙂 We just need someone who puts the interests of the country before their own (or their spouse’s) political ambitions).

The real work will be done by the civil servants. They would do well to assemble a team of representatives from the community to ensure all interests are taken into account – business, pensioners, working people, students, health and so on – and not professional committee members with no experience of the real world.

Profile photo of Ian
Member

I think Boorish is a ‘him’, Malcolm 🙂

Profile photo of Ian
Member

Given the vitriolic and outright deceitful and dishonest nature of the referendum campaigns I seriously doubt if this topic can avoid becoming politically embroiled. And it’s sure to turn nasty when it does…

Me – I think we should become an offshore protectorate of Iceland. Anywhere with their size population who can field a full symphony orchestra, the World’s Strongest Man competitions, a decent football team and win the Eurovision song competition must have something going for it 🙂

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Now that Ian I wholeheartedly agree with including the second paragraph which brightened up my day.

Profile photo of Sophie Gilbert
Member

Me too, Ian; hear, hear, Duncan. We need to keep our sense of humour. In or out, turning nasty isn’t cricket or British. In or out, humour in the face of adversity is British.

And bravo, Iceland! (Now totally off topic! :0) )

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

But Iceland is a very expensive place to live, apparently (unless the supermarket is the subject). And they had a rubbish banking system (good company?).

Continents are physically moving and the other night I learned that the UK will end up much nearer the Arctic, so Iceland may become a good neighbour soon. EFTA may be the organisation of choice – 3 out of the 5 states will then be monarchies.

Profile photo of Ian
Member

Iceland is very expensive and alcohol is only sold in three shops, all owned directly by the government, hence the proliferation of illicit stills 🙂 In addition, it’s situated on two continental plates, whose drift apart is the cause of both regular volcanic eruptions and free hot water which does, however, smell of sulphur.

But it is possibly the only place in world where you can drink their untreated water freely, where everywhere smells of fish, where various varieties of fish constitute their entire diet and where the routing of the weekly runtur or organised pub crawl never sees violence and where stoicism is the order of the day. I love the place.

Profile photo of Lauren Deitz
Member

Our Consumer Rights team has created guides to explain how Brexit affects your consumer rights http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-will-brexit-affect-my-consumer-rights

Fundamentally, there will be no immediate change to your consumer rights when you buy or sell goods and services, or travel abroad, but the guide will be updated over time.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Ian have you got the “second sight ” ? Iceland,s premier wants the UK to join the Nordic Alliance of Iceland , Faroe Islands and Norway (picture of bearded Viking shown ). Viking helmets optional .

Profile photo of Ian
Member

Just crystal balls, Duncan 🙂

Profile photo of VynorHill
Member

Ouch, Ian! As things stand at present, we, in this country, have the choice of a free market with free movement, or (if the E.U. really mean it) trade barriers. Since the referendum suggests that free movement is not something the U.K. wants to have, this would appear to be problem number one. Problem number two, is that Scotland is highly likely to feel resentful and with the pro independence lobby in a position of power, the odds on their exit have moved up a few notches on the scale. Problem three, is that, as yet, our other trade deals are wishful thinking, and until we can achieve success, we are going to have to put up with anything the E.U. chooses to throw at us. Our continued prosperity really does depend on getting these outside trade deals sorted and Scotland has a vital part to play in that. So the country rises or falls, so individual wealth does the same. I hope there will be some very serious research into everything that the referendum highlighted. The outcome has ramifications over a very wide spectrum of issues. The next government should be a thoughtful one for all our sakes.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

All the makings of a good strategist Vynor and your last sentence calmly understated .

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Ian -I hope you keep them well polished.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Michael Gove has just spoken and actually agreed with something I bring up Ad nauseam BB he said it is causing problems for Britain as well as international companies . For those interested I have started getting emails from the Institute for Government and an article by Jo Casebourne is included titled – What Brexit means for English devolution .

Profile photo of Patrick Taylor
Member

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Government

and

instituteforgovernment.org.uk/

Member
Anna says:
2 July 2016

In answer to the question “What are your financial concerns” many…the £ has fallen against the Euro and $…………so inflation will be higher – we are a net importer. The planned surplus to deficit has been abandoned…there is a risk of a run on the £.
There will be much uncertainty over the next two three years and probably longer…investment in infrastructure and private capital investment is being delayed, many companies are putting a brake on hiring…an almost certain consequence will be higher unemployment.
Frankfurt, Paris and Dublin will be vying to take business away from the City, and many multinational groups will be relocating to the European main land.
Many areas have relied to East European temporary labour, agriculture for one, to help harvest the crops.
So in the mid term I expect the FTSE to drop affecting savings and pensions, beyond that it looks grim. We can expect some company bankruptcies, again raising the question of deficits in company pensions.
In the short mid term I expect some banks and building societies to become under pressure. In the short term I expect house prices to start to fall and continue in the mid term.
In short I believe the boastful confidence of Johnson, his mates, and many of the misguider “Leavers” is akin to that of the English Football Fans….and look at that teams performance.

Profile photo of John Ward
Member

Anna – I trust you are not suggesting that the population was bamboozled during the neverendum campaign. Perish the thought! As if . . .

Member
David Arkinstall says:
2 July 2016

There is a lot of feeling out there at the moment which is to be expected as we will be entering a period of unknowns. However, the assumption that the UK will collapse seems a bit premature. Why not, because it is not in global interests for that to happen and pragmatism will prevail. Lets not forget that the economy in the rest of the EU is very weak with the Southern countries having very high levels of debt, more than the UK, and an increasing number of ordinary people eg in Austria and France just to name two, feeling that the EU is not working for them. So it is in the interests of the EU as a whole that the UK does not suffer too much as that will hit their economies very badly. I expect a difficult period, although my shares are doing very well at the moment and having pre bought my euros my holiday spending should not be hit. So expect our finances to fluctuate up and down but as Neil Woodward (A well respected fund manager) said a couple of days ago, in the longer term the economic impact of a brexit is unlikely to damage the UKs economy. So to summarise open trade deals outside the EU could keep inflation at bay and I am not particularly worried about my finances over the medium term. David

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

We can always avoid exchange rate problems by holidaying in the UK and supporting local industry!

Profile photo of John Ward
Member

It wouldn’t be a bad idea to count to ten before buying any imports. Some are impossible to avoid like electronic goods but in some cases we could put off the purchase until the situation stabilises.

Profile photo of littlegreycat
Member

I haven’t read through all the comments (give me time) but the stock market seems amazingly positive.

Both the FTSE 100 and FTSE 250 are significantly higher than they were in February and so there is no short term investment disaster.

Exchange rates will need to settle, but we seem to have just lost the speculative hump from late last year when traders expected interest rates to rise, and be back to roughly where we were this time last year.

Cutting interest rates to zero is a concern for both savings and the exchange rate; however a move like this would further weaken the pound and rates may need to rise again in the medium term.

The whole thing is degenerating into a farce where pundits cannot predict what is going to happen next. We may be seeing a short burst of euphoria based on the assumption that it wasn’t as bad as expected, or just that the Conservatives seem to have ditched their most scary choices for next PM.

What was that Chinese curse? “May you live in interesting times”.

Well, we are.

Profile photo of John Ward
Member

I liked your commentary on the Tories’ leadership election, Littlegreycat. One was pushed off his bike and the other, convulsed in self-righteousness, has upended himself in the ditch. Things are looking up.

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

Which?’s website today gives sensible advice on Brexit:
“five tips for investors How should investors react in turbulent times?”

Read more: http://www.which.co.uk/news/2016/07/brexit-five-tips-for-investors-447868/ – Which?

Its key advice probably is “don’t panic”. Shares are long term investments for most of us, unless you choose to gamble with them. One thing it does not mention is buying (or perhaps selling) shares in smaller parcels at regular intervals rather than in big hits and so even out as far as possible the volatility in the market. It also touches on something else “amateur” investors should keep in mind – professionals get much better information, quicker than most of us, and have better experience so on average we are unlikely to beat them. So make use of them by finding a reliable adviser. I can’t afford to gamble with investments so, being big-risk averse, have used one for many years, and sleep at nights. Others may crave the excitement of making killings – and why not?

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

One long term investment that is going up is silver now about $20 .troy ounce and gold is doing well at £1340/troy ounce . Dont listen to those who say its going to fall ,not in this world crisis, speculators might force it down to buy cheap but long term its better value than UK and US fiat money where the US openly admits to printing money to get out of a bad situation but in reality owes many trillions of $$$$ . Both countries dont back up their currencies on the gold standard thats why your money is not safe in others hands. Just look at the countries buying gold . So get out those Maplin digital scales , creep up to your wife,s jewelry box and check the weight of that gold necklace or wrist bangle .

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

Don’t forget the wedding ring and the gold fillings 🙂 Remember, though, when the silver market collapsed? People who did not understand the market followed a trend and got caught out. So your use of the “long term” is the right way to view many investments, whether stocks and shares, precious metals, even your own home. The nice thing about silver, gold (and your own home) is that if you buy nice examples as well-crafted items, utensils, jewellery (and a nice place to live) you can enjoy them for what they are and if they appreciate in value, all well and good. Be careful, though, with your plan – Mrs DL is your best investment (I hope, anyway) – and your jewellery might be put at risk.

I’d suggest UK land – there will never be any more made and there is increasing pressure to make use of it.

Profile photo of John Ward
Member

With selling investments it is worth keeping an eye on the Capital Gains Tax implications. The first £11,100 in any tax year is exempt. So with investments that have appreciated well over time it can be advantageous to spread the disposal across two tax years. For things like a land or property portfolio the gains will almost certainly be highest on the longest held asset and judicious selection of the property to release is worth while. Since losses can be used to offset gains on the sale of investments or to claim reliefs a professional adviser will see how best to structure disposals to minimise tax. There can also be Inheritance Tax implications and using a financial adviser to manage investments can be beneficial in minimising the estate’s liabilities. Many people who have invested in buy-to-let property on an incremental basis are now starting to worry about how to organise an incremental exit; this is not straightforward as property is the least liquid of investments and the one people can get quite attached to. A friend who died suddenly a couple of years ago had accumulated a substantial number of rented properties in one town. The family had to raise a large sum to pay the IHT so the disposal of a number of houses in a weak market had to be done quickly with less than optimal results. Although it is possible to sell property with a tenant in situ it will not get the best price in the market. Releasing a tranche of properties for sale in a small area over a restricted timescale also depresses values. Mortgage implications also had to be factored in to selecting the properties to dispose of. At any point in time the income stream has to be considered in terms of what to keep and what to let go. Bullion sidesteps those anxieties but there are holding costs and other factors to bear in mind.

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

“The value of the pound is the biggest post-Brexit concern among Which? members, according to a new survey.

The value of their pension came next highest, with 71% expressing concern about it, while 68% were concerned about the value of their savings. The price of groceries, and losing the use of the European Health Insurance Card (both 63%) were also key concerns.

Read more: http://www.which.co.uk/news/2016/07/brexit-value-of-the-pound-tops-post-vote-fears-448605/ – Which?

Well, the majority voted for Brexit and there were plenty of “warnings” about the possible consequences of leaving. So I don’t think all these people can be that fearful, otherwise they would have voted to “remain”. Or maybe the survey sample of just Which? members was not representative?

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

Which? (website 24/7) quotes a poll that says more people will stay put in their homes and improve them rather than move.

They go on to advise to think about the cost of home improvements – like a new bathroom or kitchen – that may not be reflected in any increased value of your home. This seems to perpetuate the notion of your home being primarily an investment, rather than a place to make as comfortable as you would like to live in. I’d suggest, unless you are moving, you spend the money necessary to turn your house into a home you will enjoy.

For my part I’d rather find a home that I can develop to suit my family rather than move unless a relocation was necessary. Saves a lot of money and stress.

Read more: which.co.uk/news/2016/07/brexit-10-of-people-now-more-likely-to-make-home-improvements-449070/ – Which?

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

According to the German finance minister (I think it was) TTIP between the EU and the USA might well be dead in the water. Interviews in both camps seem to think that was likely, partly because the US is preoccupied with electioneering – and partly because of concerns about a decline in standards.

I think many here might breathe a sigh of relief, but also hope the UK doesn’t simply take it on board. A sensible trade deal that abolishes protective tariffs, upholds the higher standards of those involved, without interference in a country’s rights to organise its public services in their own national interest, would be the outcome I would like to see.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Agreed malcolm , but they are going to sign (the EU ) the Canadian Trade Agreement -CETA and while America are not happy about the Canadian deal being without some measures , if you check up the US owns a lot of Canadian BB so the US are getting in by the backdoor. I also agree about TM not accepting TTIP , but knowing the behind the scenes US pressure she probably will , or is she as “iron ” as Maggie ?

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

The High Court in London has ruled that the British Parliament does have the right to vote on whether or not to trigger the mechanism for Britain to leave the EU -3-11-2016–against the opinion of the government . Big news ! Big enough for another Convo on it ? and possible RE-emergence of “our Nigel ??

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

Having the majority of those who voted possibly overruled by parliament does not seem like democracy in action. It seems to me the Government asked for our view, and should respect the outcome, as they were intending. I hope this does not go on for as long as the new runway saga.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Malcolm you dont know half of the high pressure the UK government is under. I get emails from government type organisations telling me of the latest fight to stay in the EU and its isnt coming from radicals this is British powerful people both financially and politically . Add to that even more powerful bodies in the US who are angry at Brexit , we are talking “rulers ” if you know what I mean that “inform” HMG what they think , then you have the banks , I am talking WB/IMF level. I wasnt kidding about Nigel having to come out again.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

The EU is proposing a plan to let Brits “opt-in ” to keep their EU citizenship after Britain leaves the EU -IE- “associate citizenship ” -Amendment 882 . Now if this doesnt cause some reaction in the UK then our Nigel is sleeping , it will ,of coarse go down very well in Scotland / NI .

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

I’m more interested in the effects on Brexit to the UK as a nation – particularly freedom from the bureaucracy and wastefulness of an “organisation” that has got too big to be effectively managed. It has nearly destroyed the economies of a number of states by its ill-advised handouts. I do not for one minute think the UK does not have bureaucracy and wastefulness but would rather have that accountable to us. At present the EU seems accountable to no one.

If individuals find ways to establish EU citizenship, to get freedom to work and set up businesses, use the healthcare system, them I’m OK with that. You can already do that by various means – Irish ancestry, purchase bonds in Cyprus, register in Estonia, marry an EU citizen for example. I think the EU is fearful of the way it’s growth beyond free trade and the original aims into a super state will be reacted to by more states. Forthcoming elections will be interesting.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Latest news on the Brexit front from the UK High Court -ruling that the Scottish and Welsh governments CAN intervene in the Brexit process ,saying they have a say in the triggering of Article 50 , NS was seen to jump up and down in delight (just kidding on that bit ) . I can see a quick scrambling of documents of the 1707 Union of the Crowns ( Act of Union )

Profile photo of John Ward
Member

Call King James the Sixth and the First . . .

Excuse me , My Lord, but the King is no longer with us.

Oh, I am sorry to hear that, is this a recent event? . . . nobody told me the King was ill and now I hear he is dead. This is very difficult as we are here to consider whether the First Minister of Scotland [in the red corner] can take a swipe at the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom [in the blue corner] and whether or not the honourable Parliament of this splendid Realm is entitled to poke its nose in. Tut, tut, . . . I was relying on the old King to help us settle this contentious issue in time for Christmas. I was hoping to cast off this mantle of being an enemy of the people which so upsets my good lady wife as it restricts her social life. Well, I shall have to continue as best I can. Is Mrs Sturgeon here?

Yes, My Lord, I am here and I represent the kinsfolk of Scotland from the lochs and the glens and even unto the bonny banks of the Clyde . . .

Yes, yes . . . I can hear you but I cannot see you, so would you kindly stand up when addressing the Court. Oh, you are . . . I am very sorry. That will be all for now. Is Mrs May here?

Yes, My Lord I am present and I have a large bundle of documents for you to peruse on the . . .

Oh, yes, Mrs May. That’s very good of you. I can see you quite clearly, and you are looking very smart and adroit if I might say so. The Court always appreciates it when witnesses have the relevant facts at their fingertips. Perhaps we shall be able to reach a satisfactory conclusion quite quickly now. I trust I hardly need to point out that, as this is the Supreme Court of Judicature, the proceedings will be conducted in English and not in accordance with Scottish law and precedents. I hope you agree that this will be most beneficial to the government and produce a favourable outcome. I think it is time for a brief adjournment while I attend to some procedural matters. Mrs Sturgeon, would you kindly accompany me to my room so that I can give you some helpful advice on the appropriate conduct in Court . . .

:: It goes on, and on, and on.

Profile photo of duncan lucas
Member

Your better than any medicine I have ever taken in life John , puts a smile on my face on a Saturday.

Profile photo of malcolm r
Member

My simple brain struggles with the present situation. The UK voted to leave the EU. Article 50 enables us to tell the EU formally that is what we will be doing. So what is stopping us from carrying out the will of the people? The Government, having asked the question and got an answer, is there to carry out the wishes of the majority surely? That gives us a 2 year period in which to negotiate terms. I don’t see that as an unrealistic time. Lets just get on with it and get into the real world.

Profile photo of maxwild
Member

It’s now January 2017 and I suppose that you are even more perplexed!
We seem to have rather forgotten the issue of sovereignty for which thank goodness as it has so little to do with the in/out question. In any agreement from single market to WTO there is some element of sharing of sovereignty with agreement on at least arbitration in the case of uncertainty/dispute.
The argument seems to be coming down to immigration. But nobody has spelled out how this much hyped “control” will be implemented. Will farmer bid against farmer to a new bureaucracy on the right to import vegetable pickers. Worse hospital against hospital to the same body for nurses.
Obviously that will not work. The only thing that will work will be a healthy (sic) dose of recession that will make the UK’s gig economy less attractive.
This I fear is what we might get along with the deregulation much favoured by Dr Fox et al. Again no real detail about which regulations would be scrapped.
Is this really what the 52% voted for? I am certain that they didn’t. I think that our status quo Brexit of no Schengen, no euro and rebate is exactly what is “in the best of interests of Britain” to quote Mrs May.
Am I wrong and, if so, how?