Whirlpool’s unsafe dryers must be recalled

Sarah, exactly what do you expect from a parliamentary debate. This issue has already been in front of a select committee, the chairman has twice written to the CEO of Whirlpool and we are still no further forward (except more dryers will have been rectified). In 18 months words have achieved little. Action is needed; consumer law is designed to do this.

Can dryers be recalled? How do you know who owns them?

Should SoGA have been used? I think so.

Surely we need to address the core problem of registering appliances so in future recalls can be effective. Wouldn’t that be the better debate to instigate? Perhaps Which? need to campaign for that. But hopefully based on some constructive and practical foundations that they have thought through.

Absolutely right. A Parliamentary debate is in the long grass anyway now.

I would like to see a debate in Parliament. It’s time to discuss what measures should be taken against companies that fail to act in the interest of the public. Initially, Whirlpool said that owners of the affected dryers could continue to use them provided they were not left unattended, despite advice to the contrary. Even where owners were aware of the problem and had made contact with the company, many were kept waiting for over a year before action was taken.

My understanding is that there is sufficient evidence to issue a recall, and the company should have been ordered to do so without delay. In the circumstances, my view is that Whirlpool should not be allowed to sell dryers until they have addressed the current problems.

How do you recall dryers form people who have not registered and don’t respond to publicity?

The hot air that will be generated in Parliament – if under the circumstances it should ever reach the floor – would be much better used in drying the clothes of people with unsafe and unusable dryers – if only it could be bottled. We need action based on sound proposals, not another 18 months of talk.

Let’s establish a proper recall system – should have been started years ago.

I suggest TV and social media, and ask people to pass on the information to their neighbours, friends and family. That could have been done long ago.

I have already said that we need a central registration service.

The problem is that people seem not to respond to this kind of approach – otherwise many more would have contacted Whirlpool. Just like choosing energy tariffs, people seem reluctant to do anything. Hence, if we really do want a proper recall system (that not only protects the owner but possibly their neighbours) we need it to cover everyone automatically. So registration at the point of purchase seems one good way.

I think we should also be debating the role of Trading Standards – and Peterborough in particular – in the Whirlpool fiasco. Why they have been involved in a “plan” that has not only failed, but is allowed to continue to fail. Why have they not used legal powers to get consumers prompt and effective redress? Perhaps using the Trading Standards organisation in the same locality as a major employer being taken to task is not the best solution. As this is a national problem, why do National Trading Standards deal with such major cases?

Maybe sometime Which? might put proposals to us?

“Of course dryers can be recalled, I find this a silly question”. Thanks Sarah. This kind of response is hardly constructive. If you read my contributions over the last couple of years you will find I have been constructive in my approach, both on recalls and addressing the Whirlpool issue. Which? have got nowhere, Trading Standards have hardly achieved anything. We are 18 months on with consumers still faced with dryers they are told are unsafe and are advised not to use. Campaigns, petitions, Convos, talking has got us not very far.

Why have customers not been advised to use SoGA?

The Lynn Faulds Wood report was short on thought-through proposals, and that was two years ago. We need a group with the right knowledge and experience to put together a proper, workable method of recording the essential details of who purchases appliances and other potentially problem products so a recall, when necessary, can be effective. Get it up and running with the most risky products so we don’t wait years for “perfection”.

A Parliamentary Debate under the present circumstances seems unlikely I would suggest, and I still would like to know just what it is expected to achieve for Whirlpool owners who need action now – well 18 months ago.

Interested bodies would perhaps do well to sit down with Which? and start working out a strategy for both getting redress for Whirlpool owners – by legal means if necessary – and for devising a registration system that is practical.

I endorse Malcolm’s comments. Some of us who have been contributing to this Conversation and its predecessors for two years now are not necessarily affected by the fire-risk dryer problems but have nevertheless put forward many suggestions and recommended actions to move the situation forward. I recall submitting a three-step rectification plan that could have resolved the crisis by now. I am not claiming it’s the perfect solution although it would have been a start, but Which? took no notice and [with the exception of Peterborough] trading standards authorities and the national body have ignored it. Peterborough have not ignored it but they have not done anything effective and it was not until Which? belatedly started a judicial review process that the City Council made another move.

My ‘rectification plan’ was set out in a comment in October 2016. See : https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/whirlpool-fire-risk-rip-off-britain-pete-moorey/#comment-1461401

We must have a workable registration system for appliances, working forwards on a risk assessment basis. But let’s not forget that Whirlpool haven’t even dealt with all the customers that they are already aware of let alone the number who have not yet contacted them. It’s not the lack of customer data that’s holding things up but a lack of determination.

I am not against a Parliamentary debate taking place so long as we understand it cannot be before Parliament reconvenes and will not make any decisions. I support any moves to have this fiasco raised to the highest level but until the responsible authority applies the law and enforces consumers’ rights it seems nothing much will change and progress will remain slow and inadequate.

“Interested bodies would perhaps do well to sit down with Which? and start working out a strategy for both getting redress for Whirlpool owners ……”

Malcolm – given what Which? failed to do, and the positive actions of Sarah Jayne Lyden-Burke, and her campaign group ‘Hotpoint Dryer Fire Risk’; plus the chap who did a 5 minute video taking a machine apart in April 2016; I am not sure of the benefit to other parties discussing this with Which? The legal side is solid the machines are unsafe by design or poor manufacture.

Which? could have asked for a judicial review in November 2015 given it was prepared to say they should not be used at that time. They did not.

They could have taken some machines apart and demonstrated what goes on whether you clean them and not and put it on the Web with the other 1800 videos it has done. But it didn’t.

To my mind the leadership of Which? in this matter seems to be content with Conversation after Conversation. Other than being goaded into action from here and the outright call of the London Fire Brigade in August for a ban I am not sure if this body would have taken any substantive action.

Full respect to those activists who get off their hands and did something.

Sarah – It was in the comment to Which? Conversation for which I provided a link above.

There have been several Which? Conversations bemoaning the lack of action by Whirlpool and the responsible authorities so I assumed Which? would welcome such suggestions and might include it in their submission to the government. Which? has a lot more clout than I do so I expect Which? to do the campaigning! I seem to recall that at the time the Business etc Department did not have any functions or a minister listed under Consumer Affairs.

I have read all the posts you have submitted over the last three months [which for some reason were all I could find on this site] and in many of them you have reported that the modifications undertaken by Whirlpool were not satisfactory with the result that some of your supporters have experienced subsequent fire outbreaks [presumably, in some cases, involving machines that had not previously caught fire]. It would seem that – apart from deleting parts of your comments for purportedly promoting your campaign group – Which? has not taken any notice of your comments or included any reference to that problem in more recent articles. I am very disappointed that this further dimension to the problem has remained unexplored because a defective modification is just as serious as the original fault.

Sarah, this is not an argument, but I do not see condemning a question as “silly” is helpful.

Which? advised that using SoGA was not likely to be helpful (although very late they have suggested it might be used). I have a letter that states “……we are reluctant to recommend to consumers that they approach their retailer with an argument under SoGA….as the evidence clearly suggests they are likely to be rebuffed”. Surely a situation a consumer’s association – one that I fund – was set up to put right.

A “success” for Which? in getting Whirlpool to tell owners they should no longer use their machines? It is of little help to those affected and waiting……………….

I don’t know whether you have looked at these Convos over the last 18 months but as John says a lot of constructive proposals have been made. For example;
– Have any affected machines been tested to ensure they comply with the safety standard? If they don’t, there is a serious issue.
– Why did Which? not use consumer law to help consumers once the TS plan seemed to be far too slow?
– a number of contributors put forward proposals that might improve dryer safety in future. it does not seem that Which? did anything to promote these, nor engage with the BSI committee involved to discuss them.
– Why, when it was clear that Whirlpool’s remedial / replacement programme was so inadequate did Peterborough TS not impose a condition that anyone who did not receive a repair within – let’s be generous – 3 months should receive adequate compensation?
– proposal were made by a number of contributors as to how the remedial process could be better dealt with.
– why has no proposal been put together for a recall system? ho must we wait for?

So many constructive proposals have been made, but not responded to. What would a parliamentary debate achieve, and if anything, quickly enough to help all those who still have defective dryers?

I wrote through my MP to the Business Innovation and Skills Committee with concerns about sidelining customers’ legal rights (SoGA), Peterborough Trading Standards ineffective role, compliance of faulty dryers with standards, and the general issue of a workable product recall system. Essentially the reply I received said “It may assure you to know that my officials are in contact with Peterborough Trading Standards with respect to progress in the Whirlpool case. The Trading Standards have assured us they are satisfied that the company is proactively taking all possible action”.

Would we agree with that?

A number of people in these Convos have made constructive proposals in the expectation their consumers association would take proper note and do some ground work. Some have also made direct representations to Trading Standards and Government. They have attempted to “make a difference” as well as others. I wish you well in your campaign. I have little faith in the quick result we need through Parliament but hope I’m wrong.

It seems to me that we need a properly coordinated effort to address the Whirlpool issue more quickly in favour of affected owners, but equally importantly to address the introduction of a workable recall system. As these are consumer issues, I would hope that Which? (Consumers’ Association) could form an umbrella group to bring together those of like mind, formulate workable proposals, and using existing law and through Parliament get something moving. I suspect Parliament would welcome a thought-through scheme that they can develop; they are not very good at doing this for themselves without using very expensive consultants.

Perhaps we should ask BSI whether the affected dryers are non-compliant with the relevant standards or whether the standards are inadequate – or both.

Someone would need to provide BSI test laboratories with a dryer that is defective if they were to be involved. However Which? could do this through their “own” laboratories; only part of the test standard would need to be checked. I’ve asked Which? 18 months ago whether it would do this; no response. It may be that they already have the answer.

We’ve discussed the safety standard, possible improvements, the role of Which? in helping develop standards directly through BSI committees, and I’ve pointed out that BSI have already a working group looking at the fire hazards posed by domestic appliances, along with international standards bodies. Standards can always be improved.

I wonder exactly why Trading standards have done little, Parliament has done little and Which? (by all reports) has done little. I guess the pertinent question is why?

Surely BSI does not need the help of Which? to find some of the affected driers to examine. The committee members may have examples in their own homes. Carrying out tests on appliances that have been used is likely to reveal information that could not be established from testing unused appliances.

It’s high time that we had an inquiry into the failings of Trading Standards, Ian. I suspect that it would establish that it is simply not coping because of lack of resources.

I would agree that TS have a lack of resources but also anything to do with the Hotpoint issue that is sent to your local TS gets forwarded to Peterborough TS to be dealt with. TS have failed the consumer dreadfully 😕

BSI’s role does not include policing the market and checking all the potentially non-compliant products that are being sold. That is one of the jobs of appointed organisations such as Trading Standards. Which? tests products for consumers and it seems sensible for it to have taken a defective dryer or two from its affected members and examined it. I would have also thought if dryers were suspect then Peterborough Trading Standards should have done this as part of its remit. Perhaps they both know there is not an issue of non-compliance with the safety standard.

Which? has both expertise in consumer products, uses test facilities to evaluate them, and hopefully interacts with its members on products, their problems, and constructive suggestions on improvements. They would seem well placed to take their knowledge to the relevant BSI committee to help develop improvements to standards. Many on these Convo’s have different degrees of knowledge and expertise to help Which? in this respect; it would be a shame if they were not put to good use.

I would like to see action taken to restore the resources of Trading Standards and to see national issues dealt with by National Trading Standards and not at local level. I’d also like to see a proper Consumers’ Minister, not a part-timer with many other duties.