Do you know what to look out for when buying double glazing?

They’re not the only people who use the technique. Buying a new gas boiler was similarly entertaining, with the local chap’s price being the basis for all the negotiations. But some folk find it hard to believe we got the best price from British Gas. Not initially – BG’s price was more than twice that of the independent’s – but through our use of the same tactics as theirs (delaying, obfuscation, needing to consult the other half and so on) BG not only came down to the best offer but threw in some other goodies as well. The same thing happened when we had air conditioning installed.

This is very sad, because some people do undoubtedly sign on the dotted line at the first offer. What is really happening, in fact, is that the salespeople for these companies are actually operating a form of scamming. And perhaps it’s time for Which? to look at the fact that not all scams are instituted by furtively dressed ne’re do wells lurking in dark corners of Vladivostok cafes. Whenever you buy a high priced home improvement it’s a battle, fraught with deception and emotional lies.

Ian does not say who he went with but my premise is that I do not do business with companies who use this sort of sales tactic. And as for British Gas with a back-catalogue of naughty stories.

This was first off the heap and look at the comments particularly.
oldrightie.com/2011/10/british-gas-techniques.html

It strikes me that if the first price you offered was legally the only offer you could make then this tactic would be redundant. A dated timed offer being sent via smartphone to smartphone or emailed to the customer then and then, or to a third party with the electronic facilities would be proof positive. Any subsequent lower offer in the next week deemed to be a contravention and a substantial penalty becomes due to the householder.

A few high-profile cases on TV and everyone would be aware of the opportunity to fight and profit from these tactics.

We had Crittal steel windows – awful. Wet, cold and black mould. We don’t like uPVC so opted for timber frames, made to order (Crittal windows were odd sizes) and factory painted. That was about 10 years ago. We used a local firm to install then and they made two suggestions; rectangular leaded light and tiled “creasings” – quarry tiled ledges instead of timber. we would not have thought of either but both worked really well. We have, in that time, had 3 panels (out of 37) replaced because of internal condensation from leakage. I was told that installing the panels to ensure a gap is left at the bottom helps prevent the seals sitting in any water that might accumulate.

Aluminium windows and doors were probably worse for condensation. I was not happy with installing UPVC but not having to do any maintenance other than washing has changed my mind. Tiled window ledges make sense because that removes one of the main weaknesses of wooden windows. I want to replace my windows in the next year or so because the present ones have only an 8 or 10 mm air gap and although the wood is sound, the south facing cills are not in wonderful condition. I cannot tell whether any of the existing units have been replaced but three out of four panes in a bathroom window show signs of failure. Fortunately it’s not as obvious with obscure glass.

I learned that good installation is vital for various reasons. The glass panel gives rigidity to UPVC so careful packing is needed to stop doors sagging and sticking in their frames.

I had sliding patio doors replaced and was intending to use timber faced as the originals, but had no success in finding them at a realistic price. I went for aluminium, powder coated to match the timber colour. The have now been in 4 years and have been all I wanted – no condensation, frames not chunky. I might have chosen aluminium windows to minimise maintenance although I am a fan of wood.

I had forgotten that modern aluminium windows overcome the condensation problem, presumably to greatly reduce heat transfer from inside to outside. Being a late adopter has its advantages. Powder-coated aluminium is great provided water does not get in. There might be scope for development – maybe powder-coated anodised aluminium, which is used in other applications.

The usual way to colour anodised aluminium is to effectively dye the oxide surface before it is finally finished.

Indeed. Aluminium is a very reactive material that would oxidise very rapidly but for a thin oxide coating that adheres very tightly, unlike rust that forms on steel. Unless colouring provides additional protection it probably does not matter if the metal is then powder coated.

Generally paint will adhere to aluminium metal better than to an anodised coationg which is glass smooth. There are a whole range of anodising colours available. The anodising process is where raw aluminium is placed in a bath of electrolyte and current passed to build up a controlled thickness of aluminium oxide. The oxide is porous, which allows a colouring agent to enter the surface. Usually, from what I recall, it is then treated with hot water that closes the porous cells to give a smooth sealed surface that is highly effective in preventing corrosion.

Polyester powder paint is normallyused for exterior applications, electrostatically applied to aluminium and heated to form a very durable and protective coating

Architectural aluminum, for example, is finished in both ways, depending on the appearance required.

I wonder how often we tell each other things we already know, Malcolm 🙂 I’m sure we both know about etching primers for aluminium, galvanised steel, etc.

An advantage of being a member of a society is that people are often keen to offer skills and facilities. At one time I was getting powder coating done free or at cost for our charity.

I will take great panes to remain on the topic of double glazing.

wavechange, this is not a private conversation but maybe others who read comments would like an explanation of what is being discussed. 🙂

The treatments available for aluminium double glazing may well crop up if someone here goes out to source new windows.

My thoughts entirely, Malcolm. I like it best when Conversation is inclusive. We never know who might be reading and find technical details valuable whatever the subject. I would not like to see any aspect of Which? Conversation side-lined to a different channel.

Better ways of identifying sub-threads [font, point size, spacing, positioning] might help with presentation of Conversations so that people who don’t want to travel along the branch lines can more easily stay on the main lines.

My house has 68 double glazed window panes and not a single one is misted. They were made in 2002 by John Fredericks Plastics Limited, Huddersfield and fitted by Starlight Windows of Newton Aycliffe, and they are up to 1.0 x 1.9 metres in size. We moved from our previous house 5 years ago; it had only 6 units and 3 were misted. How does one choose a good manufacturer – what do you look for? I think drainage holes in the frame are vital.

MY experience (all secondhand) with any films applied to windows, is that they get brittle and crack after a few years. Some fade too, and all require “kid glove” treatment when it comes to cleaning.

What are you trying to achieve with this film? The main benefit of double glazing is acoustic – the second skin of glass with a decent air gap attenuates sound substantially. A film won’t give you that. It could help prevent the greenhouse effect and mitigate overheating in summer – but opening the window does that. A thin film is unlikely to make dramatic difference to heat loss in the winter. What is the frame made of? A lot of heat will go through the frame not the pane.

If the single glazed window frames are in good condition, consider secondary glazing – which actually offers better thermal and acoustic performance than replacement windows, with a lot less disruption.

As supergrandie says, Which? does not seem to mention window films. Low emissivity glass, either as double-glazed panels or secondary glazing seems a much safer option. I’ve only seen films used for safety reasons and have not been impressed.

I’d forgotten that Wavechange. Back in the 70s when the IRA was busy in my home town (where Marines were based) our local pub covered the insides of his windows with self-adhesive plastic to protect occupants from implosion by external blast force. Functional – but quite a shame to have to deface the etched windows in that way.

Rather unhappy memories, Roger. Hopefully it was possible to peel off the plastic, though it might be difficult to remove traces of adhesive from etched glass.

I had a look at a couple of sites selling window films and they do seem to be removable, so supergrandie could experiment on one or two windows for little outlay.

Many adhesive films can be removed gently with a little warmth from a hair drier.

We had a limited amount of glass secondary glazing before changing all our Crittal steel windows for double glazing in double frames. I’ve no quantitative evidence to support the benefits, but the house is warmer and quieter from external noise. One problem with the secondary glazing was opening it before the windows – including the sashes and fanlight – could be themselves opened. However, it is a cheaper solution than total replacement and does not alter the look of the house (which may be important).

There is some interesting information here: https://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/secondary-glazing/secondary-glazing.htm

Our house had secondary glazing when we bought it and we lived with it the first winter. Condensation, mould and draughts meant they were replaced sharpish. Maybe they are better quality these days, but I wouldn’t want secondary glazing again.

I had never heard of this window film, and maybe it is worth having, but for some reason it didn’t appeal to me. If it is done in a factory it might be OK, but if it is applied on site, I would be very wary. I found a picture of a couple of men with what looked like a roll of cling film that conjured up images of windows covered in bubbles, creases and trapped dust.

And I might be totally off base here, but when you get what looks like many sites singing the praises of something you have never heard of, they are often all the same people pushing their product.