Should water meters be compulsory?

I have ask if the lady concerned is actually unhealthy – or that you think her life style is unhealthy. Because honestly it looks as though she is simply using water frugally – As she boils the rain water she drinks – and the water she uses from the mains is chlorinated – both systems are safe. The causes of Cholera may be concerned with sanitation but I cannot see her lifestyle being actually unsanitary.- different from yours may be – but not unsanitary.

I have an interest in this as when I was a boy – asthma was very rare – sanitation was not obsessive. When I became a teacher I was appalled at the rise in asthmatic children. I postulated that the cause was lack of exposure to dirt – particularly as children I knew who camped and played in the dirt did not suffer from asthma. A few years ago a scientific study’s conclusion was exactly the same as my postulation. Children were now too clean and did not develop sufficient antibodies..

Incidentally – I haven’t had a cold or flu in 25 years – and I do camp.

On a similar note – if the water rate is set from the 1982 rateable value (the rateable value is set proportionately and does not effectively change the proportion charged when increased) – it makes no difference if the house value rises – the water rate rises annually anyway to reflect cost and is still proportionate.

I know locally that a water meter usually means a reduction in charge – not because people use less but because the water rate is based on rateable value or size of house not on amount of water used.

Example – a three bedroom house has the same water rate irrespective of number of bedrooms occupied or people living there. I’m considering getting a water meter because I have a 5 bedroomed house which is occupied by i man and 3 dogs,
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I think you raise a good point Richard: I’m also a teacher and I have also noticed the asthma / allergy / general malaise issue and contracted it with my own childhood / early adulthood on the 70’s and 80’s.

As for whether the lady I cited is unhealthy: well, I have to say that she seems to enjoy reasonably good health, but I’m afraid that her personal hygiene does mean that she has a certain aroma, doubtless magnified millions of times over by smoking and sadly I must say that some local residents do comment rather unkindly on the colour of her clothes and household furnishings such as curtains which I think is the direct result of the washing regime. I guess that the old saying “each to their own” should be applied whilst ever anyone who chooses to live a particular lifestyle is causing no harm to anyone else. I’m afraid that being the soft-hearted person that I am I find myself feeling sorry for her being the object of people’s unkind comments for the sake of saving a few bob on her water bill.

Your comment regarding the water rate also makes a lot of sense and I had not really thought of it in that light, although I do think that these days, with all the en-suites and utility rooms, and the associated water consuming appliances that go in them, a review is probably still due. After all, houses with no en-suites and no utility rooms will be valued at the lower end of the scale and ones with these things at the higher end, so it would help to bring the water rate more into line with the likely consumption wouldn’t it?

Dave – I have to say that I feel the lady does more to aid the environment by saving water than her neighbours. We need to save water not use it up

I get something similar with my garden. I designed my garden as an oasis for insects – small animals and birds – So it has food-plants including trees for the insects which attract small mammals up to foxes and birds. Others locally favour decking and grass – neither really help the environment. Consequently my garden teems with insects especially butterflies birds and animals – except rats and mice – the foxes take care of them. the other gardens are sterile. We are encouraged to help the environment – but most don’t.. If they did I could cut down on my help.

As to rates – The rate is set not by inspecting each and every premises – but by looking at a stereotypical house on the outside – and whether a central heating system is installed. (Found by examining gas bills etc). Then applying that rate to all houses which look the same in the area.

So unless there is an individual inspection of each house – then the quality of facilities inside of each house is ignored to a large extent – At least that was the case when I was a Senior Rating Officer for Westminster many years ago (long Story :)). That is why my 6 bedroom house has the same rateable value as the next house – even though my house has 1 occupier and 3 dogs – the house next door contains 10 people. They use at least 10 times the water – and 10 times the other local facilities as well as generate 10 times the waste,

It is why we not only need water meters by also a Poll Tax – the thing Thatcher lost her job over

I’m with you on saving water Richard – for example I have a 500 Gallon rainwater tank which gathers the water off my roof and since I bought that I have never had to use mains water in the garden at all, I also have water butts by my shed and greenhouse and I never need to take water in to the greenhouse at all.
I’m also horrified by the number of people who wash their cars at least once a week with a running hose pipe (indeed I work with one person who I’d describe a totally crazy who washes his car EVERY DAY as soon as he gets on from work and refuses to use a bucket of water in case he gets grit in the water and then scratches the car!): in my view washing cars should be illegal using a hose or other source of running water But I don’t drive so I expect an avalanche of disagreement from car owners.
Then there is the point made by CONSUMER a bit below this: I think there should be a legal requirement for offices, shops, cafes, bars, pubs, clubs, restaurants, schools, colleges, and indeed every other public building of any kind to install water saving devices, and to set a lead on this.

However, I’m still against legally forcing everyone to have a water meter (which is what this board is about) because I think there will be a negative impact on public health (regardless of whether my slightly fanatical acquaintance is healthy or not!).

I would rather see a carrot than a stick approach to this and for me compulsory metering is a stick, and a stick with two sharp ends too because people who cannot afford to pay the water bill will also be unable to pay for new installations of water saving equipment, possibly even less able when they are facing an increased water bill. A more suitable carrot approach would be similar to the government backed insulation campaigns but instead campaigning to get everyone to have a water butt (or several) and fitting every new house with plumbing to allow rainwater or grey water to be used to flush the loo, etc. There are loads of ways to do this and most are going to save far more water than metering ever will: metering, though, is an easy cop-out (and a cheap one too) for the water companies and the government, which is the only reason it is still the primary method of reducing consumption.

IMHO the “irresponsible and greedy in society” is a description which includes the majority of water company chief exec’s and the shareholders in the water companies: were it not for their greed (in terms of profits) I feel sure that a great deal more of what we do pay, and what the government pays – i.e. what we also pay through taxation – would get spent on repairs and updating the water supply network.

However, ggdad does have a point: take out of the equation my opinion of water company shareholders and bosses and you are still left with far too many people like the one’s Sophie Gilbert mentioned who seem to think it is a “god given right” to waste water. And note, please, the distinction between using what is necessary, even using what is desired, and being wasteful.

I absolutely agree with the first part of your comment: and I would add that round here quite few stores and cafes, etc., have modem, trendy, loos which don’t flush properly because they use so little water when you press the flush, but then , possibly through over-use I don’t know, they leave a constant trickle of water running into the pan all the time, which surely must be wasting millions of gallons a year? Similarly trendy electronically operated taps should be saving water, but a great many seem to run for a very very long time before shutting off, longer than most people would run a tap for manually. Surely such devices can be adjusted better????

I don’t really understand the second item you mention so I won’t comment on it, but I’m totally with you on the big organisations needing to take the lead.

We have a PWS at the kennels – Never noticed anybody being careful with the water.

Presumably, Richard, there is a plentiful supply of water at the kennels throughout the year?

However, that is not always so…

When our house was built in 1935 in the Lake District, the local community insisisted that we had a separate supply, because theirs would “dry up” during high summer…subsequently, when mains water pipes were laid on their road, they all decided to be connected,whilst our house was not.

Now I have to inspect the level regularly, to ensure that the there is still an overflow from our underground concrete tank (2yards deep,3yards long,1yard wide) in a field above, taking care not to disturb the sheep, cows or especially the bull…and modify water usage accordingly.

For safety I’ve fitted a purification unit to the drinking water…though you may prefer chlorination!

You mention fairness, but what can be fairer than metering and paying for what you use?

Those who use little water can save money by having a meter installed.

We have compulsory meters in our area. I resent it. I’m careful with my water and see it as an infringement of my rights. I also see it as an exercise in creating the appearance of scarcity to justify increased prices further down the line. We initially didn’t respond to letters about a water meter installation. We received a letter saying if we didn’t respond we would be put on to assessed charges. We contacted the company and they can to install in the meter or so we thought. Two months later and we’re being charged £55 a month for our water. This is assessed charges plus a no access charge. Even though we have actually given access. We’re a couple in a two bedroom terrace. So we contact water company apparently the meter has not been installed it was just a survey. Nobody told us it was just a survey. We make an appointment for the installation on a Saturday the only day available as we’re working. The guy doesnt show up. We We’re not available for another 3 Saturday’s dues to commitments. The whole time being charged £55 a month. I’ve spoken to the company and they will not reverse the charges. It is completely unfair and they can only get away with it as there’s no competition! The only reason I get from them about why they can charge this amount is because it’s been agreed by OFWAT. Even though we allowed access because we did not respond to the letters initially we’re being punished. I asked them if this was punishment for not responding initially even though we have no given access to the property and they said ” you could look at it like that” we have to have wifi meter in the house because there’s shared access and I’m not happy about this but I have no choice.

I don’t think your boiler would burn out or explode just because the water is turned off. I turn off my water when I go away for up to two weeks over Christmas and New Year, leaving the heating on low to avoid freezing. That’s worked fine for 30 years.

The wasted water is probably much less than you imagine, bearing in mind how much you use just to flush the toilet. You could always read your meter and calculate how much you have used since the last bill.

If a company cannot successfully replace a ball valve, I would worry about whether they are fit to look after anything to do with gas.

You can pump hot water round the hot water system, which will save running off water, but that will waste a lot of energy. The most effective solution is good design of a house so that the water heater or tank is close to the taps used most frequently.