How easy is it to dispose of your rubbish?

I agree with you Ian, when I visited Budapest, I saw all sorts of items sitting outside properties and was told that once a year they collect any furniture or items free of charge.
Here in Salisbury, Wiltshire, they have the worst recycling centre I have ever known.
Not more than one vehicle can drive up the single lane ramp at a time.
From the bottom of the ramp you can’t see if there are any of the approximately 8 spaces free, all of which must be reversed into as there’s not enough space to turn around in the narrow access to the bins.
Then the cars and vans queue up creating problems for the businesses along the road that are then hemmed in and I can only presume, lose business because of this dire situation.
No matter how many objections they’ve had over many years they still won’t re-locate the site. Wiltshire Council is not fit for purpose in my opinion and I could go on and on about their inability to take care of this town and surrounds.
Businesses including Charities have to buy a yearly license which only enables them to bring one load a month to the dump.

I would agree with putting a charge on new materials to pay for their eventual disposal. This would sit nicely alongside my proposal to double the VAT on dog food.

Who would get the money if a charge was put on new materials? And would it go to where it was needed or end up in the government pot for future distribution and then not enough money to go around where it is needed?

I thought the levy on tyres, was when you had new ones fitted, you paid I think £10 per tyre for the garage to dispose of your old ones.

You could add a fine for every dog walker not carrying a poop bag as well John.

We seem to have a new dog walker who thinks they can dump their bags in our empty bins if we don’t get them in quick enough after they have been emptied.

Absolutely, a council bin on a public footpath, not sure why you called it your bin.

I think the practicalities of a charge on new purchases to cover disposal costs rule it out. Many people already pay [either directly as an extra charge or indirectly through the purchase price] for the disposal of old appliances, furniture, carpeting, building waste, and so on, so sorting out who should pay and where the money should go would add an administrative cost to the process that would exceed the nett revenue. All these products already carry 20% VAT and we must expect the central government to make fair settlements with local authorities to reallocate a portion of that to waste management and environmental pollution control. Furthermore a lot of household purchases are not replacements but new provision which might not get wasted for many years. Local authorities moan a lot about the cost of scavenging dumped rubbish but it’s probably not a big deal in the overall scheme of things and a regular patrol could, if properly directed, lead to a general improvement in local environments. It’s just one of those annoying things that councils are set up to do, like sweeping the streets, and they should just get on with it. More and better household waste sites and recycling centres would reduce the problem I am sure.

Some councils are more effective than others in dealing with people who do not clean up after their dog has left its business card; councils already have powers to issue fixed penalty notices and to prosecute in cases of persistent violations of the law. I would imagine that a caution and the name in the book would bring about reform in many cases. Mechanical street-sweeping is no doubt more efficient than traditional road-sweepers with a brush, a shovel and a cart but the old system did at least enable the more turdiferous places to be identified and monitored with a view to taking enforcement action.

I agree, Alfa, that some dog owners are not very nice, and even if they do do the responsible thing and bag up their doggy’s doo-doos, some of them just leave it somewhere spoiling the local amenity or, as you say, putting it offensively in someone’s waste bin. These people probably live within a quarter mile but they seem to act furtively so never get noticed. Medieval behaviour survives in some areas unfortunately. As I was walking home yesterday I noticed a plastic bag flapping in the breeze/hurricane in a neighbour’s laurel hedge. It would probably stay there for weeks and be a nuisance for the nesting blackbirds so I pulled it out in order to take it home and pop it in the rubbish bin – only to find [to my horror, as people say on TV] that it was some hound’s ordure that the irresponsible owner had just stuck in the hedge rather than take across the road to the dog waste bin or take home with them. Luckily in my pocket I had a plastic carrier bag [5p in Sainsbury’s; other shops also supply] so I was able to dispose of it properly.

We rarely have more than 2 small bags of general waste that the rubbish collectors just lift out instead of tipping the bin into the lorry. The other week they left a note telling us not to put food waste in the bin, which we never do, and lo and behold they left us with a bag of dog poo in the bottom of the bin.

Darren – Did Alfa say her bin was on a public footpath? It could have been left, as ours are, on the driveway. I regard the waste bins as ours because so long as we are responsible for them we take care of them. I clean them, wash them out, and generally look after them and I wouldn’t want some one else’s dogs droppings deposited in any of our bins, especially not the recycling or garden waste bins, just because I hadn’t pulled the bin in soon enough after emptying – the erratic timetable of the refuse operation makes it impossible to coordinate this sometimes.

Retailers already contribute to the cost of recycling electrical goods or to have their own take back scheme and no doubt the cost is passed on to customers: https://www.gov.uk/electricalwaste-producer-supplier-responsibilities/your-responsibilities Garages charge their customers for disposal of used oil, tyres, etc. Fast food companies have contributed to the cost of cleaning up the rubbish that accumulates near their outlets, though this is generally voluntary. We are partly there and I believe that councils should be working hard to provide cost effective solutions to ensure that domestic waste is not allowed to get out of hand.

Fly tipping of contractors’ waste to avoid disposal charges could be dealt with by introducing charges on building materials and facilitating disposal at no charge to businesses. In the meantime, anyone who is having a new kitchen or windows fitted should be encouraged to check that their contractor is licensed to dispose of waste. I used to receive a magazine published by the Environment Agency and that included considerable information about the problem and of prosecutions for fly-tipping.

On a positive note, the problem of old cars abandoned in lay-bys seems to have disappeared, at least in the region where I live.

We must put our bins outside our property for them to be emptied. They litters the roads, but then it speeds up collection. If any of you have followed a bin lorry down a suburban street you’ll appreciate any means to speed the process up.

When was young the bin men used to collect the bins from behind our house, and return them. Those were the days when someone filled up your car with petrol and wiped your windscreen before taking your cash while you sat in the warm glow of your vehicle.

When I was young the dustcart was pulled by a horse. At the end of the round the horse and leading truck were detached and they trotted off to the stables. A bit later mechanical horse [a three-wheeled Scammell Scarab tractor] coupled up to the cart and took it to the waste destructor. By 1963 the horses had been replaced by Fordson Major agricultural tractors but some of the staff were still being paid a weekly bonus for looking after the horses. The neighbouring borough had Shelvoke & Drewry side-loading tipper wagons which looked very modern. In those days most waste was ash so refuse vehicles did not have to be enormous and block the whole street.

I cannot remember early dustcarts but when I was young we had a galvanised steel dustbin and very occasionally used a smaller bin marked ‘Egg preserving pail’, of unknown pedigree.

For the past fifteen years we had scrap collector with a horse and cart and it was interesting to see what was on board. In addition to the obligatory rusty old bikes there was alway one or two washing machines or driers, often looking as if they had come straight from the showroom.

Councils have a contract with the householder to collect the refuse, if they do not remove the refuse the house holder
can take the council to the Magistrates Court by virtue of the 1936 Public Health Act and the successor legislation that incorporates the 1936 Public Health Act, and get a court order against the council.

[Sorry, this comment has been edited to align with our Community Guidelines. https://conversation.which.co.uk/commenting-guidelines/. Thanks, mods.]

[Sorry, John. Your comment has been removed due to the above being edited. Thanks, mods.]

Malcolm – I did not suggest that large items should be collected free of charge, but it would be more efficient for councils to arrange periodic collection of large items in an area rather than for them to respond to individual requests for a collection.

Contractors and other companies have to pay for disposal of waste and a minority save money by fly-tipping. A surcharge on new products and materials could fund free disposal, but no doubt other strategies could be used to tackle the problem.

I once lived in an area where the council put 2 giant skips in the road twice a year so residents could dispose of all their large waste. You had to be quick though as they were soon full but it seemed a good idea at the time.

One council I knew of in London did a similar thing with a fleet of dustcarts covering a grid of streets. They would announce a Saturday for their Operation Muckrake, or whatever they called it, so that residents could put out their junk, scrap, unwanted relatives, etc, and the vehicles and a team of operatives would process along the street, gather up the spoil, take it back to the depot, and return for more. It seemed to generate a community festival spirit so the bunting would go up, children would throw their old scooters in the back of the wagons, husbands, wives and civil partners would all embrace and dance a merry jig, and happy grand-dads would cartwheel down the pavements as they saw their ancient items thrown away, all followed by an ox-roast in the street and a burst on a rescued banjo to celebrate the day.

LOL !!!!
🤸🏻🎼🤹🏻🎼🎸👯

Sounds like another rubbish street party John.

Some people will never pay for anything if they can avoid it. Dumped rubbish will remain a fact of life, just like litter. Fining those few who are caught seems the only solution. Even naming them seems pointless as few people read local newspapers.

Our council has a removal service for bulky items like beds and domestic appliances – up to 3 for £38, and a maximum of 9 for £108. Discount for those on benefits. These seem reasonable charges. Alternatively you can take them for free to their Household Waste and Recycling Centre (perhaps adding a coffee lounge and a recycled shop would add to their attraction).

I have a fairly £worthless but very useful old Espace, take the seats out, load it up with rubbish (family and friends – for, not with) and take it down to our local tip. One day I’ll have to leave it there.

I presume that these skips were phased out because the councils realised that they were responsible for health & safety and sooner or later someone will be injured as a result of skip-diving.

Alfa’s off with the emojis again. Next it will be poetry, perhaps ‘Ode to a skip’.

Where I used to live, the council would collect five large items free of charge, but only once a year and additional collections cost £21. Ten miles away, under a different council, the charge is £30 for five items. These charges seem very reasonable.

LOL !!!
I will think about a poem, meanwhile you might like this one ….
https://www.poetrysoup.com/poem/ode_to_a_skip_500462

That’s rubbish. 🙂 You can do better than that.

ROFL !!!

I’ll see what bits and pieces I can scrap together but it might refuse to unclutter and just be a load of garbage.

Here in the wilds of Snowdonia the local village councils operate somewhat subversively by furtively organising a giant walk-in skip for the surrounding farms / houses / caves etc. This is never advertised in advance, the logic being that if they did it might be used, but tiny communities being what they are word often leaks out and by the time the SS Garbage docks on the mountain there’s normally enough folk hidden in the woodwork who emerge, Magicicada-like, with prescient forethought and a boot-load of garbage.

It’s an interesting event, since I suspect as much gets taken out and used as gets dumped within. In many ways it’s the ultimate recycling event, but it sems the villages have to pay the county council for the service.

We are not allowed to put broken glass in our recycling bin, but glass bottles go in the mixed bin that then gets tipped into the recycling lorry. Go figure what happens to it !!!
We always tie them up in a carrier bag and put them on top but they are going to get smashed to bits anyway.

Roadside sorting has to better than chucking everything into one container.
Shredding goes into a paper sack that bird food came in.

Penalties for fly-tipping should include permanent confiscation of the vehicle.

Some businesses produce a lot more waste than others, so rather than penalise the small wasters it doesn’t seem unreasonable if you pay for what you waste.

Just to make clear, businesses don’t pay council tax set by their local authority. They pay non-domestic rates [business rates] that are set by the government at at a uniform level and levied according to their rateable value [the current controversy is because rateable values have fallen out of line with commercial rents]. Business rates are not related in any way to services supplied and the revenue goes to the government before being redistributed to local councils, some of which do not get back all they collect on behalf of the government. So waste disposal has to be paid for as a business expense like office cleaning or stationery or insurance. This is to encourage businesses to minimise their waste and try to reuse or recycle waste.

I sometimes stay in a holiday let owned by a friend. The bins are marked ‘business waste’. I don’t know if that is normal practice.

Where we stay in Devon in a holiday home the refuse is not collected by the council, but by a private contractor. The let is treated as a business, quite correctly in my view.

I don’t disagree but perhaps it would be more efficient for the business to pay the council to include the property in its collection round.

Businesses have a choice and perhaps the commercial waste contractor charges less than the council would; the council has to employ a contractor and then pay to administer that contract. Of course, it would be more efficient if the same contractor carried out both operations but I doubt if that ever happens because there are different rules applying to municipal waste and other waste. I don’t know the details but it might have something to do with landfill tax or environmental protection and pollution control.

After collection by the local council, municipal waste is handed over to the county council or multi-district waste authority for disposal whereas waste collected by contractors under commercial contracts can be dealt with by the contractor in whatever way it likes within the law. A commercial waste contractor might engage in more sorting and separation for salvage or recycling than is possible with municipal waste which [apart from householder-separated recycling waste] generally goes unsorted direct to landfill or incineration.

It is almost certain that small businesses operating from homes or small premises introduce their waste into the household refuse collection arrangements. Much of it might be recyclable waste which the local authority is quite happy to accept as it will boost its recycling performance and generate additional income.

Community projects can benefit from landfill tax via Wren grants, providing that they are within ten miles of a landfill site: http://www.wren.org.uk

Adrian, that is particularly silly. How do they know where you are from? Do you have to take identification?

We had an annual permit where I used to live. Some councils issue residents with undated permits. Where I live now, the council does not issue permits. Maybe there is a logical reason.

The refusal to remove glass items Wavechange is due to Heath+Safety regulations pertaining to refuse collection this was pointed out to me by my local county council , he said the collectors could be injured by broken glass. Officially glass is re-cycled , unofficially — your right , depends on the council.

I have seen that explanation on some councils’ websites but many councils do collect glass, either in the recycling bin or in a separate box. I’m not saying one system or another is right but some standardisation would not come amiss.

Our council collects glassware in both the general waste bin and the recycling bin. Broken glass bottles and jars can be put in the recycling bin also. if we do dispose of broken glass we wrap it well in newspaper in the general waste.

It’s a good idea, but that’ll be around 110 million stick on plastic labels. For the number of people who may get confused I’d suggest that would be a disproportionate response. We have an annual waste calendar from the council giving instructions as to what waste to put in each bin (we have 5) and changes to collection dates at holiday times. Have that on your kitchen noticeboard for unaccompanied visitors.

Our council has managed to produce a three-year calendar so I can now see which bin to put out on which day in 2019. How’s that for saving money?! Presumably in the event of a royal funeral or coronation a special edict will be issued to amend the arrangements.

I have noticed in various neighbouring authorities that they are standardising on black or dark grey bins for all purposes but having different coloured lids. This does look better on the street before and after the emptying but I believe in one area they found that the lids they bought did not fit all the bins. And the confusion over which colour applies to which contents remains unresolved. Only local government could make such a simple operation as waste disposal so complicated.

Just be grateful that they have stayed with the Gregorian calendar.

Having single-colour bins with different lids or markers makes sense. Maybe we need Chameleon Bins™ that will blend in with greenery, brick walls, etc.

In my experience, glass is recycled where bins or boxes are used but not where recycling bags are used.

As Duncan said, I believe this has some basis from heath & safety, e.g. where the contents of a bin or recycling bag cannot be seen, there is a non-trivial risk of injuries such as glass cuts, if a bag is swung so that it accidentally sweeps across a bin person’s leg (or other body part).

That makes sense but some councils don’t allow glass to be put in bins. Here is an example: http://www.highland.gov.uk/info/1063/rubbish_-_household_waste/137/what_you_can_put_in_your_bins

I bought a holdall at Argos some years ago, it came off the conveyor wrapped in polythene but the girl at the counter still asked me if I wanted it put in a bag. I pointed out to her that it was a bag and that it was already in a bag but I don’t think she quite got it.

My council says to wrap shredded paper in newspaper or wrapping paper. I sometimes put it in a cardboard box.

That’s a good idea. Deducting flats and other places where communal bin schemes are in operation, there are about 20 million properties each with a minimum of two bins plus about a quarter with a garden waste bin. At a replacement rate of (say) every fifteen to twenty years on average, plus provision for new properties, there is probably a requirement for three million or so new bins a year plus spare parts [wheels, lids] which would make a worthwhile output for a factory. There is also a considerable demand for the small food waste bins and kitchen caddies. Perhaps we could also have a smaller UK size for general rubbish in order to encourage recycling.

Our council gives discounts to those on income-related benefits. That no doubt helps many (if they know about it).

The other side of that is people who will drive miles into the countryside to dump something they could just as easily take to the council dump/re-cycling centre.

I have been known to forage fly tipping for firewood although technically I believe it is theft.

Often those who are charged with making decisions do not understand the consequences of their actions.

To maximise the amount of stuff like plasterboard you are allowed to dispose of, you can always use a pop-up garden bag something like this:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/pop-up-garden-bag-690-x-560mm/10171 . We got ours from Lidl and it can be emptied and reused many times.
Purpose-bought rubble sacks don’t hold anywhere near as much and as long as the allowed width doesn’t exceed the diameter, there’s not a lot they can say.

“not laid down by God in heaven”. Well, I’m not so sure. One of the Household Waste and Recycling Centres not too far away from us is named High Heavens.

I wonder how legal number plate recognition is, given that councils can no longer use CCTV/ANPR in their car parks to handle charges and penalty notices?

I think number plate recognition systems at waste disposal sites should possibly only be used for the detection of misuse by commercial users, not to stop citizens from depositing household waste – that was never the intention of the original legislation. Why should anyone have to take waste further than necessary? Surely, in most county and joint waste authority areas, a degree of reciprocation should apply so that the cross-boundary flows balance out.

Like Malcolm I question the legality of using ANPR systems in this context, and how does it deal with people who borrow a relative’s larger car, or hire a van if they want to get rid of a large item like a bed or a wardrobe, or if they are disposing of something from their second home? Organisations that have the power to make rules never cease inventing new ones, and then they employ jobsworths to enforce them.

Tetra Paks must have the worst record for recycling and I can imagine a huge percentage go to landfill.

Do any councils accept them in household collections? Some areas don’t even have collection points for them. If people use a lot of them like we do with milk substitutes, chances are they might try and recycle them, but for the odd orange juice, they are likely to end up in general waste. And there will be a lot of ‘odd’ fruit juices consumed around the country.

This is one area where a national scheme is badly needed. There was only one collection point near us until recently and it was always overflowing. The container often didn’t get emptied for weeks at a time and you often saw people leaving taking their cartons with them that might have ended up in general household waste.

Fabric recycling is another area that needs looking at. Only good quality or pairs of shoes seem to be wanted. What about all the fabric and shoes that have no use left in them? Surely they can be turned into something else?

TetraPaks are accepted in the recycling bin in Norfolk. I presume they sort them out and process them differently at the plant.

I can understand shoes being a difficult commodity to recycle or reuse, especially with the modern types that are made of bits and pieces of weird and wonderful materials.

Textiles are widely accepted by charity shops even if they are not complete garments as they can be sold to rag merchants for reprocessing. Textile recycling banks seem to have unjustified restrictions, possible because all they want is stuff they can push into a container and send to a developing country. I expect my Harris Tweed sports jackets are the hot property in the tropics.

I read recently that Norwich City Council will collect small electrical appliances if left in a standard carrier bag alongside the recycling bin on collection day, and will also collect any sort of textiles which if they cannot be reused are sold for reprocessing, the fabric for upholstery padding, insulation and industrial blankets. They will also take shoes but don’t say what they can do with unusable ones.

John, your Harris Tweed jacket could have been sold twice after you donated it for free.

I once watched a video of what happened to garments left in a textile recycling bank. They went to a sorting depot owned by someone with a very nice house and car, sorted into bundles and shipped and sold to a receiver dripping in gold somewhere in Africa. The receiver then sold them to market sellers who looked like they were the ones who needed new clothes. A very small donation went to charity.

I haven’t put anything in those banks since but we can also leave textiles and small electricals on our bins now and good clothes go to a charity shop.

I realise that, Alfa, and I think I saw the same programme about the export of clothing bank donations. Because of the intense competition between charity shops on every shopping street, their prices are generally ridiculously low and they are not raising anything like enough for the good causes they represent. I think they do feel that, as well as benefitting the specific charity, they are also helping the less well-off to buy decent clothing and homewares at low prices. However, it is well know that many ‘customers’ are using charity shops to feed their on-line auction activities.

When dropping some things off at a shop run by the Children’s Society recently I had a chat with two of the volunteers and they feel that they are sometimes just used by people to discard unwanted and unsaleable goods, that the prices they can realistically charge do not reflect the work and effort that goes on behind the scenes to prepare the clothes for sale, some of which have to be washed and ironed to make them presentable, and the hours that volunteers have to put in to keep the shop going. They said that sometimes the nett weekly takings hardly cover the operating costs of the premises and that they have to pay to dispose of other people’s rubbish. As donors we wish there was a way of pushing up the selling prices of the charity shops’ stock to sensible levels but they are flooded out with garments and goods they need to shift and what doesn’t sell quite quickly gets sold in bulk to dealers. There are two very attractive leather handbags in the shop window at the moment that probably cost around £100 new but they are priced at £10 each; both are in near perfect condition. The person who contributed them probably hoped they would make a useful sum for the charity. It’s best not to look.

I remain in two minds about charity shops and I also have strong views on the questionable charities that deliver bags door-to-door for later collection. Another time or Conversation perhaps, but it’s all about disposing of waste.

Our charity runs an information centre and at one time made a steady income from bric-a-brac but now there are few items that sell. Well meaning people still bring their donations and they sit around for a few months before being passed on to charity shops or disposed of, as appropriate.

I don’t understand some people’s mentality. I have been to houses where people I know don’t bother to wash food containers before putting them in the recycling bin. Dirty clothes and general rubbish get taken to charity shops often left outside in all weather to get ruined. Rubbish litters our streets and countryside……….

I always separate items a charity shop might not want and ask them if they want them. Most of it goes to a local charity shop that supports a local disabled centre. Our local tip has an on-site shop for items that might have further use. I did find a nice hall mirror at a charity shop and at £25 didn’t consider it particularly cheap but it was what I wanted at the time.

If anyone leaves a “charity bag” at the door, they get it back empty.

I turn them inside out and use them to wrap things I take to the charity shop.

I started to do this when pensioned off my cylinder mower and replaced it with a petrol rotary mower. Hedge clippings and shrub prunings – everything except the thicker stems. I just put lay them on the grass and the mower deals with them. It’s particularly useful with prickly items such are pyracantha and rose prunings. It’s the only way I have been able to get all my garden waste in the brown bin. A couple of people have said I would damage the mower but it has survived for nearly 30 years.

I have noticed that many people site their compost bin out of sight in an obscure or shady corner of the garden. The best place is somewhere that will catch the sun since the heat will stimulate the decomposition and produce good material sooner.