Why we can't ignore product sustainability

I was delighted to see this recent Which? article that highlights the fact that corded vacuum cleaners are likely to last longer and offer other benefits: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/03/5-reasons-why-you-shouldnt-write-off-corded-vacuum-cleaners/

Comparing the cost of ownership might show that cordless vacs are a costly choice and a contribution to the mountain of electronic waste.

Wavechange, your first paragraph could have been written by me!!!

We still have an old Goblin for dirty jobs that still has the original intact fabric collection bag.

In 2012, we bought a Black & Decker pole pruner with a rechargeable battery. A special offer at the time of purchase got us a free spare battery. With little use, after a couple of years the batteries would not charge. B&D replaced them as a gesture of goodwill. We were told to periodically discharge and recharge them, but we kept forgetting and they are now dead. So a perfectly good working pole pruner with no power, what a waste. There now seems to be a problem with availability for the 18v battery that fitted a range of garden products, so could be the premature end to quite a few garden tools.

The cost to replace 2 batteries was very similar to purchasing an electric pole pruner, so we opted for an electric one, easier to handle and available to use anytime you want (except wet conditions of course).

We also have/had a hand-held vac, shavers, toothbrushes, power tools, numerous torches that had/used specific or in-built rechargeable batteries that all failed prematurely. £130 to replace an oldish but still useable laptop battery was far too much so to invest in an expensive Dyson rechargeable doesn’t appeal at all.

Maybe rechargeable batteries are improving. We have had several AA/AAA battery chargers over the years that have all proved to be quite useless.

A few months ago, with so many items running on AA/AAA batteries, and torches always running out of juice, we decided to invest in Panasonic Eneloop Pro rechargeables. It is early days yet, but looking a lot more promising than previously. Forum discussions rather than product reviews helped us make up our minds.

One gripe I do have is not being able to buy them directly from Panasonic so we can be 100% sure they are genuine batteries. Some years ago, an eBay seller was selling “Genuine Nikon IOM Batteries” with a photo of the label also spelt IOM confirming he had not misspelled the description. So now I am always very wary where they come from.

Batteries definitely need to be standardised, affordable and easy to replace, but most of all, we all have a duty of responsibility to not contribute to the mountain of electronic waste.

I’ve been caught out too, Alfa. Many years ago I had a Black & Decker ‘Dustbuster’ and I followed the instructions and left it on charge. The nickel-cadmium batteries gradually lost capacity and from reading up on the subject I found that keeping them on charge causes the batteries to dry up. The advice to discharge these batteries regularly by using the tool is good. That prevents dendrites growing through the separator, which makes the battery unable to hold a charge. For other reasons it’s vital to stop using the tool when it starts to lose power or you will quickly wreck the battery. None of this applies to the lithium ion batteries that are quickly replacing older types. What matters here is to avoid leaving batteries fully discharged.

I remember your tale about the Nikon IOM battery. 🙂 I was wary about buying a replacement battery for my ‘old’ iPhone but used a supplier suggested by Ian and it works fine, despite the low price.

I’ve had very mixed success with AA and AAA rechargeables. I have had most success with lower capacity ones, but the higher capacity ones often lose charge in storage. It may be a single faulty cell in a set of four that is the problem and I must take back a set of Duracell rechargeables with this problem. It’s not possible to use lithium batteries as direct replacements for AA and AAA because the voltage per cell is 3.7V instead of 1.2V. I might have a look at the Eneloop or other precharged batteries.

We are buying the rechargeables as we need them so there will only ever be a spare set of 4 ready to use rather than storing too many. I think it is a good idea to keep track of rechargeables in remote controls to make sure batteries don’t stay in them too long and maybe recycle them in torches where they can be easily run down..

We have had a few of these high powered torches, brilliant at first, but they have a very short life.

They have to be plugged into the mains to recharge and usually between 6 months and a year they just stop charging. Most of them have gone back for refunds so don’t know what they look like inside and whether the battery can be replaced.

Most of the hand lamps like that use sealed lead-acid batteries, which won’t last long unless kept fully charged. It’s tempting to leave them on charge but that dries out the battery and shortens its life. LED torches are a better bet, in my view, and there are some powerful ones available if needed. It’s good to hear that you have managed to get products replaced, Alfa.

My remote controls are not used often, so I tend to go for non-rechargeable batteries. Kodak ones are cheap and unlike more expensive brands such as Duracell, I have not had problems with leakage. Kodak and some other cheaper brands perform poorly in Which? tests because of lower capacity, but that’s not important for products such as clocks that have a low power consumption. Apart from that I try to use rechargeables where possible.

I see no problem in manufacturers insuring their guarantees. I would hope that the insurer would assess the risk properly and give better terms to better products. Inherently better products would still be what I want to buy.

I would be happier if JL had made it clear that I was buying an insurance-backed extended warranty rather than an extended guarantee.

One of the reasons I have avoided extended warranties is because I have heard of so many problems, including some on Which? Convo.

I assume that many of us want products that will prove durable and have suggested that information could be obtained from independent field service engineers, who repair appliances regularly. Obviously this information will not be available when products are launched.

Historic performance would certainly be a great source of information – Which? Connect could also contribute to that. However, an independent field service engineer, or someone with similar experience and knowledge, could dismantle a new product and assess its component and build quality and pronounce on its likely durability, problems area, how easy or difficult to repair and so on. Which? may need to find such people; they are not the same necessarily as test lab staff.

Until our Connect surveys ask important questions such as how much products have been used, they are going to sacrifice useful information that we could provide. I’m sure that I’m not alone in owning some products that have been little used. For example I have a carpet cleaner that is rarely needed because I don’t have pets or children and take off my outdoor shoes. It was still a useful purchase but it would not be useful if I responded to a survey and said how long it had lasted.

It’s always useful to inspect goods for repairability, but for this to be useful we need to know that spares are available and will remain so for a reasonable time – either from the manufacturer or a third party supplier. With popular products there is more chance of third party spares. Friends kept their dishwasher going for 23 years because spares were cheap and readily available. At one time it was used two or three times a day, thanks to a large family.

The recent survey on small appliances asked how often my kettle was used:
O – Every day
O – Every 2-3 days
O – Every 4-5 days
O – Once a week
O – Every 2-3 weeks
O – Once a month
O – Less often than once a month
O – Not sure
🙄

Our kettle is used at least 6 times a day. One option for day, but 3 options spanning a week covering 1-4 uses (does that make sense?)

Maybe the power of marketing is convincing us that we need cordless cleaners. 🙂 I don’t find it difficult to use a wired vacuum cleaner, even to do the stairs. On the other hand, I would not be without my cordless drills, mainly because I use them away from home, and away from mains power. I’m surprised how long the lithium batteries are lasting compared with the earlier ones with NiCd batteries.

Batteries have a nasty habit of running out in the middle of jobs.

I know; I can never find mine…

Which? could do well to review all the comments made on this topic in previous Convos (maybe they have). Such points have been made a number of times – cycles by washing machines, dryers, dishwashers and many appliances are a relevant durability criterion, but the type of cycle is also important, and no doubt so are other factors such as the load in a washing machine and the spin speed selected.

One option would be to lease an appliance and simply have it replaced if it fails. I have an instinctive dislike of such things – someone usually makes an extra profit out of this and i believe it can lead to more waste, but am prepared to be wrong. I prefer to own what I need to use exclusively.

I think Which? should review this whole topic from the ground up and publish a report that can be developed into action. Convo contributions can be one source of view, opinion and information.

Meanwhile, assessment of real durability and repairability would be a big step forward. I hope Which? will keep us informed as to how they are tackling this.

Jon asked a question in his opening comment “what would a great review that includes product sustainability data look like for you?” . In my view a simplistic answer would be: this product should last for……(years, cycles, hours) ….without failure, an unconditional guarantee is offered for…..(excluding abuse and misuse) and these product areas can be repaired/replaced at this cost should they fail. It should also say what cannot be repaired or replaced, or a repair that would be excessively expensive.

I am not sure whether we are going to be able to get much useful information on corporate social responsibility for goods made in the Far East under a European or American brand name. That’s not a reason not to pursue it, however.

Many clothing retailers have outstandingly good CSR documents in their annual reports but have been caught out in relation to their suppliers and sub-contractors. The same could be true in respect of consumer durables.

I agree that it’s not easy and that you cannot rely on what the companies may claim, hence the need for independent assessment. The publicity of poor ethical practices in the clothing and electronics industries does seem to have had a positive effect.

We know that familiar companies are responsible for ensuring that their products comply with all relevant safety and other standards and many do this well, even if their products are made in the Far East.

Whether consumers will pay much attention to CSR and sustainability remains to be seen but it surely it would be good to praise the companies that are making an effort.

It’ll be a bit like “Mission Statements”. I wonder how Apple would fare in this?

That’s why I am keen on independent assessment.

Thanks for that, Vynor. Sustainability and ethical issues are far from simple. I agree that government should act, not only to tackle ethical issues but to require companies to hold spares for our larger appliances for a minimum period and to ban the use of integrated assemblies that would cost more than certain percentage of the original cost to replace. I don’t believe that Which? should ignore these issues and assume that what Mike has in mind is that Which? should help make us more aware of information that already exists.

Here is a relevant article that heads today’s Which? homepage: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/03/the-hidden-cost-of-your-smartphone/ Towards the end of the video we are given sensible advice: Keep your phone and don’t be tempted to upgrade sooner than you need to, and if the power is not lasting as long as it used to, replace the battery rather than the phone. Unfortunately, in an article on power bank chargers we are told: “Batteries don’t last forever – if your smartphone has given up the ghost, check out our best smartphone recommendations for a great range of top-rated mobile phones.” As someone who has kept their phone for five years and replaced the battery, I have tried to take the responsible approach and it has saved me the cost of a new phone. My battery was firmly glued to the case, yet the manufacturers could have used simple clips to hold it in place. I wish Which? and other consumer associations had worked together to tackle the growing problem of phones and other mobile devices without user-replaceable batteries, but now all the main manufacturers are using batteries that cannot easily be replaced by the user.

As far as I know, all brands of smart TVs will lose functionality within a few years of purchase. I would like to see Which? reports provide information about whether we can make a claim under the Consumer Rights Act and the various options to restore functionality by adding a plug-in device.

Mine is important because I can set it to reach the temperatures I want during the day/night and I can forget about it. Additionally, it is portable and can be placed where the ambient temperature is an average for the house. I don’t need to control it remotely and am suspicious of the way this control works via the internet. Yesterday my router crashed -one minute there, the next not. I took the power supply out and replaced it and everything came back to normal. Control of things, using the router and WIFI might set everything to a default and not the settings I have chosen.

One of my main concerns about smart thermostats is they could stop working over the Christmas holidays, when I’m hundreds of miles away and there is a risk that pipes could freeze. If it gets really cold I can ring a neighbour and ask them to turn up the thermostat, but I cannot really expect them to sort out the router.

I agree with you that being able to move the thermostat round the house is useful. At present I just nudge mine up or down a bit when passing.