Do you wish for more from your microwave?

It is generally agreed that a conventional microwave oven is not the best way to ‘bake’ potatoes but if you microwave them at low power, the outside does not become overdone before the centre is cooked.

Use our combination microwave a lot – baked potatoes with crisp skins in 15-20 mins microwave & grill/oven, pizzas cook OK too although have to be done one at a time and just on grill + oven. Otherwise used daily for heating/reheating various liquids and steaming vegetables. Didn’t half miss it when it needed a part and we were without for a few days!

BTW We use a 3 tier microwave steamer so all is ready at the same time as the layers are added with those needing less steaming added in stages, and you can even put any vegetable infused water left after steaming in your gravy to add to the flavour.

Has anyone had problems with Panasonic microwaves. I have always put a jacket potato in the microwave for 5 mins before putting in the oven. I put it in the middle of the plate. It has now started to leave an overlooked hard spot underneath the potato at the centre of the plate. I have put the potato on another plate on top of the microwave plate and it still does it. I have been cooking the potatoes like this for years and never had this problem. Also put a container of mash in and had the same result.

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Oops!……and I hate cleaning it and it cooks not me!

Beryl, is it finger trouble, speed of typing (I can use 2 fingers) or too quick to press reply without proper reviewing that gives rise to all the mistakes we make? Same as emails. At least the text usually makes sense – nothing wrong with “I cooks” really. Better than language used in text messaging.

Oh! for an editing button.

Pop round and give us lessons – we seem to have a similar model. The previous (similar) one lasted years until the turntable stopped rotating and I couldn’t fix it.

If you take the porridge to the boil and then turn down low it should continue to cook without boiling over. The shape of the container can make a difference. It had never cooked a casserole in a microwave oven but will give it a go.

Before I got round to replacing my faulty lamp, I used battery LED work light to inspect what was happening in the microwave. Less convenient but better than the internal lamp.

What’s a turntable? My old Philips microwave has some sort of rotating stirrer fan device above the chamber to bounce the microwaves around the oven. That’s why I chose it. It’s probably not up to Which? standards for even heating but using a lower power setting easily overcomes that problem.

I have used many microwave ovens with turntables but they can be a nuisance.

Jane – A kitchen is a science lab where you can do experiments and get to eat the results. 🙂

Take a plate or bowl with sloping sides, add some soup and pop it in the microwave. The soup round the edges will boil and stick to the plate before the soup in the centre is hot. Tomato soup would demonstrate this well because you will have a bright red ring round the plate.

A standard mug or a soup mug that narrows at the neck is better because the sides don’t slope out.

Jane, I have just carried out a spot check and pressed the Pizza icon and the window is saying “Press Start to Reheat” so its obviously going into automatic convection mode. It is a Panasonic combi/convection/micro which I think is well worth paying the extra for as they are so much more versatile than just a micro. The pizzas always come out browned on top and lovely and crispy in about 10 mins max. Hope that helps.

Jane – Have a look at the post by MsSupertech, further down this page. As she points out, food in a rectangular container tends to over-cook in the corners, so round containers are better for cooking and re-heating food.

Thanks Beryl. What I don’t know is whether meat should be browned before continuing to cook in the microwave. I have unearthed a 1989 copy of a St Michael book of microwave cooking that makes no mention of a need for this. It is roughly contemporary with my oven, which is handy because modern recipes tend to assume more a power rating of more than 500W. One beef casserole coming up.

Thanks again. The casserole was on the menu anyway, so I will do research with a view to making future comments that are on-topic. In view of the fact that you introduced the nutritional preferences of a couple of nursery rhyme characters (Mr & Mrs J Spratt) recently, you are a fine one to say that we are off-topic. 🙂 Anyway, I blame Malcolm, though he started off well.

I see that this is Jane’s first Conversation, so welcome Jane and hopefully we will come up with some useful tips and relevant experiences.

………………and who knows, we may persuade Patrick to change his mind about microwaves.

Courtesy of a Mr Jamie Oliver comes a recipe for Marmite Popcorn: http://www.jamieoliver.com/magazine/recipes-view.php?title=marmite-popcorn

I would try it but I don’t seem to have a couple of key ingredients.

It was suggested for the benefit of Patrick, and does not need a microwave oven, though a combination microwave would do the trick, if he had one. 🙂

Sounds to me like round Twiglets. Now if it used Bovril………….. But remember Patrick is thinking of a slow cooker – the opposite of a microwave.

I often use my microwave as a slow cooker, Malcolm. I often bring food to the boil and then let it simmer at low power. I’m experimenting with casseroles at the moment and set the microwave to 99 minutes and 99 seconds, the maximum time setting.

I will stick to fast cooking for steaks.

My slow cooker has a removable pot so I start that off in the microwave.

I expect it does, Alex. It’s not something I do regularly and I do enjoy experimenting. I expect that the slow cooker is most economical. I suppose I could do a couple of casseroles and compare the amount of power used.

Oh my goodness. Alex, Jane and Patrick have all given up on the microwave. What is the world coming to?

We agree on the need for longer warranties. These should represent a reasonable “minimum fault free working life” given the price paid. However, few retailers are offering these and I see no signs of a mass change to introduce them. So in the meantime we must have other help to protect our rights.

The Sale of Goods Act requires products to be “durable” – lasting what an impartial person would see as a reasonable time. I want to see what ” durability (reasonable life )” should be fairly assessed as, for a range of key products – again given price – so we don’t have to each start from scratch We need this information to better support our case when negotiating a problem with a retailer out of the guarantee period. Given the testing that has been carried out by European consumer organisations for years and their survey of members’ experiences I would have thought sufficient data should exist by now to make a good start.

That is a valid point you make Malcolm. The Sale of Goods Act should define ‘durable and reasonable time’ according to the product in question, which can vary substantially and which I made reference to in my New Year post when I alluded to the need for more clarity in the SoG Act.

Beryl, the Sale of Goods Act lays down the legal framework, but I don’t think it could possibly specify reasonable durability for particular products. There is a huge number within its scope. I see that as the job of those who interpret the law, who will need facts to support their case. This is where we need the expertise from consumer groups who can provide evidence of product durability and customer experience to show what is achievable. They could set benchmarks against which an “impartial person” could make a judgement.

Alternatively the EU could lay down minimum working lives for groups of products – they already specify energy requirements, maximum wattages, mnimum efficiencies – but I fear their involvement would be heavily influenced by the vested interests of manufacturers.

On the other hand, it might well be in EU manufacturers’ interests to give fair views on durability, to keep control of cheap and nasty (short-lived) imports from outside the EU. LEDs perhaps a current example?

Which? Sorry – this has strayed totally off topic and should, perhaps, be in another conversation!

If a microwave oven with a one or two year warranty fails after four years, it’s likely to be a real struggle to get the retailer to take action. As many of us have experienced, when the manufacturer’s warranty has expired we are usually referred to the manufacturer or told there is nothing that the retailer can do. I would like to see retailers prosecuted for denying us our legal rights, but that does not seem to happen. If we do fight our case, then it is likely that no spare parts are available. We might be lucky and get a replacement item, but more often it will be something like a discount on a new model. The retailer is within their right to make a deduction for the fact that the microwave is four years old, thus making an allowance for the use we have had. If the consumer has paid for an independent report to provide evidence that the fault existed at the time of manufacture, that could cost more than the discount on the new product.

On the other hand, if we have a five year warranty and our four year old microwave breaks down, customers should have less hassle. There is no need to argue that you have legal rights and there is no need to provide evidence that the problem existed at the time of manufacture.

Perhaps the most convincing argument is that most people would try to get a repair/replacement if they have a five year warranty, whereas few pursue their rights under the Sale of Goods Act, and fewer are successful.

I would love to see something more definite about what is meant by durability but perhaps the legislation is deliberately vague because it is something difficult to define.

The virtue of the Sale of Goods Act is that it is current legislation. At one time the standard warranty for household goods was generally one year, as it was for cars. Car warranties are a real success story for consumers and we are starting to see many products with longer warranties. John Lewis led the way with its 2 year warranties on electrical goods. It looks as if it has competition from Ikea.

I profusely apologise to Jane for banging on about Which? not telling us about the length of warranties and then going on to discuss the failings of the Sale of Goods Act. In defence, I’ve deliberately used microwaves as an example.

That reminds me of cauliflower rice when visiting one of my family recently. I’d never had it or even heard of it. Just grate cauliflower until it resembles rice in size, microwave for 3 mins, and add spices if you wish, but no need. Fluff up and cook 2 minutes more.
Have I led a sheltered life?

I can recommend a microwave for making the world’s easiest apple sauce. Peel, core and slice a baking apple. Microwave on high for 2-3 minutes depending on size. When it’s nicely softvand mushy add a generous pinch of mixed spice plus a little extra ground cloves. Give a good stir and there you have it 🙂

Useful info on the grill functionality.

I agree the numbering is odd but believe they put it out of sequence because it is actually a program where it pulses intermittently rather than attempts to cook.

On the defrost setting, my microwave starts on a medium power and then decreases the power in stages. I sometimes use this for cooking too, to automatically turn down the power as cooking progresses. In fact the old recipe book that I have it refers to starting off at high and then switching to defrost to complete the cooking.

Nowadays we have temperature probes, microprocessors and weight sensors to help guarantee success.

Gretal, I love chocolate cake. I wonder if Which? would mind if you decided to give us the recipe – I’ll pass it on to Mrs H.
Just a note on chicken. Have you used a meat thermometer to make sure it has all reached at least 70C? I’ve no idea how well the inner meat gets heated in a microwave.

Fiona – The rusting problem is almost certainly caused by salt. That could be from spilt food or a cleaning product that contains salt. Washing-up liquid can contain salt.

I suggest you use the minimum amount of cleaning products and dry the stainless steel. You are right about the stainless steel being inferior but that’s not uncommon. If you remove the rust and rub in a very small amount of silicone grease to the affected area you might have no further problem. It would not need to be used weekly.

Fiona, “stainless steel” is not all the same; it is made in different grades and some will show staining like rust – the poorer quality ones. It is pretty unlikely that Neff have used such a grade, unless by accident. More likely to be something that has stained the surface.

Salt, as wavechange suggests, could be a cause – the highest grade of stainless is a so-called marine grade for use near and on the sea to resist salt corrosion – but other contaminants may be to blame. But where from? If the cleaning cream gave a permanent clean result then that part of your problem should be sorted.

As for your other problems, seems like a not particularly good design, or just badly-built.

Fiona- Could you advise model and date bought please. It would be helpful to see if this is a common problem for Neff. Whilst the salt is possible as you say it existed on installation …

The customer service side sounds disgraceful. I assume a retailer was involved – did they take any useful part in the process?

Another relevant factor is that Fiona mentioned that the rust is on brushed stainless steel. This is a relatively rough surface and more likely to corrode than polished stainless steel.

Fiona, if you really want to pursue the “rust ” issue, find out from Neff what grade of stainless steel is used. It is likely to be 410S, 430 or 446. or 304 or 316. The 4** grades have more limited corrosion resistance than the 3**. They are susceptible to chlorides as part of the corrosion process – e.g. salt. They are also susceptible to corrosion at a weld. If the “rust” cleaned off and has not returned then it may have been initial contamination causing staining – maybe from where it was stored.
I do not think brushing is relevant unless something like ordinary steel has left traces in the “scratches”. This is why steel wool abrasive pads should not be used to clean stainless steel.

Fiona – You have attracted a bunch of regulars who look can sometimes start to discuss things in rather too much depth. 🙂

Please could you let us know if a magnet sticks to the corroded stainless steel. My guess is that will, though maybe not strongly.

Malcolm – From the Wikipedia entry on brushed metal: “In the case of stainless steel the grooves of the finish can accumulate chloride ions which break down the chromium oxide passivation layer, enabling rusting to occur.”

Many years ago I suggested brushed stainless steel plate for a piece of lab equipment an engineer was building for me. He gave me a similar explanation.

As you say, welding and contamination can encourage corrosion.

It seems like corrosion along the door seal is the least of Fiona’s problems with her Neff appliance from customer service upwards. If ever there was a blindingly obvious SOGA [Sale of Goods Act] case of not being fit for purpose this looks like it. It would mean going back to the retailer, though, and would take a fair bit of persistence and still ending up with a Neff I expect. At least the dogs get a Panasonic dinner.

I agree John. It’s a pity that Which? Conversation does not have a ‘chat room’ facility where two or more people could discuss issues in greater depth.

Faced with an unhelpful person in a shop or on the phone, I have sometimes had success by starting again and dealing with another person. For example, I have gone back to a shop at a different time of day, when another manager is on duty.

It is helpful to be well prepared, making it clear that you are conversant with your legal rights and have some printed evidence to support what you are saying.

Vynor – that sounds delicious. What do you call these creations?

In small quantities they could be called part of a balanced diet. 🙂

No more than five a day I suggest. Best not to add honey or dessicated coconut or chocolate sprinkle toppings.

I had a spell of using desiccated coconut in my culinary creations but it had the same high fat content.

Thanks WC – the little bits get between the teeth which makes the spelling difficult.

In the absence of any other suggestions, I would call Mr Hill’s toothsome titbits : “Vynor’s Ambrosian Sensations”. By Jove, they’re scrumptious.

I keep several round dishes beside my microwave for this reason, so anything in a rectangular container is transferred before cooking or re-heating.

I also freeze food in Pyrex bowls, which is inconvenient for storage in the freezer and I have to use several layers of cling film to cover them. Only once have I managed to buy a bowl with a plastic lid. Defrosting and heating are easy and the bowls stack easily for storage when not in use.

Glass jars and bottles often break when frozen but I have never had a glass bowl crack. The reason is that the bowls have sloping sides.