When your battery goes flat, don’t call Postman Pat

You are absolutely right – I am sure Royal Mail deliver millions of lithium batteries from China and Hong Kong every year as well as from UK sources. But lets face it these batteries are not dangerous goods – sure a few may go bang once in a while but there are billions of the batteries in use worldwide every single day so they are VERY safe to use. To exclude even small coin cell batteries (used in calculators) is a complete over reaction by Royal Mail. Royal Mail have been completely mis-informed by the CAA but worse still they have completely mis-managed the whole issue. Even after all this time they still haven’t managed to manage!

It’s not ridiculous at all. Once the battery is in the UK, it’s on the ground and so unlikely to take a plane down with a fire!

The problem of the Royal Mail handling potentially dangersous imported goods certainly needs to be looked at as a matter or urgency. I am not an expert but I think that use of appropriate packaging could make the risk of posting smaller batteries negligible.

There is no reason why batteries need to be sold online. I have six lithium coin cells (CR2032 and two other sizes) bought in Lidl for £1.99. I cannot vouch for the quality, but it illustrates that we don’t need to buy everything online. I don’t believe that Royal Mail will handle lead acid batteries, even small gel batteries that cannot leak acid.

I presume that the reasoning behind exempting certain batteries from the ban if they are in equipment is that they are better protected. Maybe – but maybe not.

If there is a genuine hazard then it is not OK to allow posting of batteries in the UK just because dangerous goods are sent from abroad.

Hi
I have not read all of these comments but in response to one person who talks about buying batteries at Lidl – this is fine if they stock your battery type. I have a small appliance for which I cannot buy batteries locally, the only place I have managed to get them is through a specialist supplier who used royal mail.
Generally I agree with other comments. We need to understand the risk, the evidence and that all options for safety have been considered.

I agree Sharon. Lidl only stocks three types of lithium coin cells and even those are not regular stock items. But if they become difficult to buy online, I expect we will see more in shops.

There are so many counterfeit electrical products on sale via the Internet that I would prefer to buy these in shops.

“If there is a genuine hazard then it is not OK to allow posting of batteries in the UK just because dangerous goods are sent from abroad. ”

The fact is that you don’t need to ask the question when there are literally BILLIONS of pieces of evidence all around you that these rules are complete and utter nonsense. There are millions and millions of lithium batteries in the UK alone. Do you think we might have noticed by now if there was a real threat from them?

Yes, I totally agree with your comment and I think we (seller) should challenge this restriction in courts, it sound very very stupid by common sense and technically, however I agree that there should be proper packaging when the batteries are transporting in bulk quantities, they should rather impose proper packaging guideline like the international express carrier did, the DHL, UPS and Fedax all transporting these batteries by Air, they only require the batteries should be labelled and packed separately, this sound a good approach to make they safer during transport.

I have been using Royal Mail for 7 years, in terms of delivery service they are good but in term of their price structure they are very unfair, and the recent dangerous goods rule is a total blunder, only an idiot can make such a nonsense decision.

I presume that the reason for the exemption of batteries (up to a certain capacity from the ban) is that they are likely to have some protection from crushing and short-circuiting when in equipment.

I have my doubts about whether coin cells are a significant hazard when posted, but neither you have specialist knowledge.

I suspect that many of the batteries sold online are substandard products. I would rather pay more for a product that I can be sure will be reliable and have a long life.

There are companies that specialise in supplying dangerous goods and they engage contractors. It is perfectly possible to manufacture, transport and use dangerous items in a safe way.

Lithium batteries are everyday items used by probably every single person in the UK in some way shape or form and unfortunately some people can afford to “pay more”.
The problem is that “all Lithium batteries” are now banned by Royal Mail and there are no exceptions for weights and order sizes etc. I could understand better if there were limits perhaps but I cannot understand why its OK to send 3 large laptop batteries with a laptop and not one battery on its own. I mean how can a small lithium coin cell (calculator type) be branded as Dangerous in the same breath!?
BTW Some of the most popular batteries are Panasonic, Duracell, Maxell etc. – they come from the same factories as many other non-branded versions (China normally). We have sold hundreds of thousands over the years with no issues at all. I know millions of these batteries are used and posted every year and its a fact that it still goes on today regardless of Royal Mails law change.
My issue is the way that Royal Mail and The CAA have forced only some businesses to stop sending yet will still allow many hundreds of others to continue as normal – its soul destroying for us and especially when others are allowed to carry on right under our noses even after making Royal Mail aware of those sellers. They know of these businesses but have not done a single thing about stopping them despite making it illegal to do so.
If they are serious about Dangerous Goods and turning people into criminals then they have a duty to act responsibly – they are playing with peoples businesses and lives after all !!!

Ooops Sorry I meant some people “cannot” afford to pay more!

Chris

Which? has raised this issue, so it’s up for discussion. In view of your business interest, I suggest that you pass on your comments to Royal Mail. It would be good to have a reasoned explanation why lithium coin cells are included in the ban.

Personal customers are not allowed to send phones or cameras via Royal Mail. I quote from the RM website:

Batteries that are classed as dangerous goods by the latest edition of the International Civil Aviation Organization’s (ICAO) Technical Instructions are prohibited. This includes lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries sent in isolation, with or contained in electronic equipment such as mobile phones or digital cameras.

Thanking you wavechange. Just to let you know that since 16th Jan 2013 I have been in constant communication with Royal Mail and also at times the CAA. I have even had sent to them samples directly from the unlawful suppliers. Despite considerable time on my part I haven’t had proper answers from The Dangerous Goods Team at Royal Mail nor Jacky Akass who is in charge of Royal Mail. Some months ago Royal Mail signed off to me by by saying that they will not communicate further with me on this matter – which was a not-so-nice shove in the face I felt!!
Since that time I have continued to point out to both Royal Mail and The CAA the ongoing problem and conflict in rules and the many hundreds of sellers in the UK, Europe and Overseas and I have neither heard anything more from them or seen any effective action in stopping the posting of these “Dangerous Goods”. Even those companies with Royal Mail accounts are still being allowed to continue as normal – it is most unfair and when you see the volumes of batteries posted through Royal Mail every day you could understand their reluctance to do anything “real” at all. But even the CAA don’t seem to be effective in asking Royal Mail to get their act together – should we now not trust the CAA in being an effective organisation!?
Our business has been forced to stop posting these batteries which is really the only cost effective method of delivery for small orders – it is a real wrench for us and a few other businesses where they had confirmed a loss of 30% of their business because they also believed they were staying within the law.
We did the right thing and we have been punished – even the Police haven’t taken an interest in this matter – if it had been a few “funny” tablets they would have been all over it like a rash!
Sad world really…

I am sorry to hear this, Chris. Royal Mail is regulated by Ofcom and I wonder if you have been in contact with them.

“I presume that the reason for the exemption of batteries (up to a certain capacity from the ban) is that they are likely to have some protection from crushing and short-circuiting when in equipment.”

Nope… many laptop mount the battery to the rear of the laptop and are typically 4,6 or 8 cells. It is also more than likely that the battery for a laptop if seperated will be bouncing around next to the psu.

“I have my doubts about whether coin cells are a significant hazard when posted, but neither you have specialist knowledge.”

I’ve seen enough of them battered by hammers to know that it would take one hell of a postal accident to turn a 3.3v battery into a hazard.

“I suspect that many of the batteries sold online are substandard products. I would rather pay more for a product that I can be sure will be reliable and have a long life.”

Not relevant to mailing rules that you are willing to pay more, but the term “substandard” is pretty subjective. I mean, if it does the job, it is not really “substandard” is it?

“There are companies that specialise in supplying dangerous goods and they engage contractors. It is perfectly possible to manufacture, transport and use dangerous items in a safe way. ”

Exactly – we’ve been doing it for decades.

Maybe the ban on the public sending phones and cameras containing lithium batteries (when companies are allowed to do this) might be a good way of generating public interest in this issue.

Its still hard for me to actually make any sense of the situation I find myself in and I would suggest that it makes no sense to most people either. If posting Lithium batteries is indeed “Dangerous” as Royal Mail and the CAA suggest, then why are tens of thousands of these batteries moving up and down the country every single day. Even though I can easily identify thousands of listings on eBay, amazon and elsewhere easily and in a few seconds they haven’t actually stopped any of them continuing to post these batteries. I mean if they are Dangerous Goods then why no real action or even prosecutions so far. Remember these new laws were introduced over 4 months ago and have substantially affected my business, why no action and support from Royal Mail.
It is now also illegal but how serious can they be taking this matter when they do nothing effective to stop it – they make rules and laws and then ignore them – why do they bother to interfere?
I can of course understand large rechargeable Lithium batteries being of some danger and I can understand that large trade orders of these batteries may cause a hazard but to ban them outright within the UK even in the smallest amounts is a complete over-reaction! Worse still is that they allow you to post the very same batteries if they are accompanied with the equipment. So a keyring torch is fine with its batteries fitted AND 2 spares but you’d be a criminal if the batteries were sent on their own – can anyone explain this please?

“First the facts. Lithium Batteries of no matter what size may spontaneously burst into flames without any reason and have been exercising the manufacturers , and users brains from their invention.”

Really? Show of hands people – who has a phone, laptop, ipod, tablet or any other device that has just, you know BURST into flames? Would you keep such a dangerous item, indeed TENs of them littered around your house? If they are so dangerous, why do house insurers permit these menaces in their clients homes? Why do we not see government campaigns and fire fighter sponsered events highlighting such ever present danger lurking under every teenangers pillowcase or on any bedside table?

What nonsense! There have a very few reported cases worldwide of lithium battery manufacturiing problems (e.g. Sony), but the laptops did not ‘spontaneously’ burst into flames, they were in use or being charged at the time. You know that you are actually allowed to CHARGE your mobile phone or laptop while onboard an aeroplane, so the assertion becomes even more baffling. This doesn’t hold up to any form of logical scrutiny!

“as “fires” in post office sorting depots, are not detailed in the public domain unless someone is hurt or is killed.”

So a figure should be floating around then – death by lithium battery – how many?

There are millions (and millions!) of packets coming in from all over the world into the UK being delivered happily by Royal Mail today. One only has to search “Lithium” on eBay to see thousands of listings from overseas alone. Do not imagine that either HM Customs or Royal Mail can deal with all the goods coming in, let alone talk to each other. As Royal Mail cant even deal with the UK postings of Lithium batteries they haven’t got a hope in hells chance of dealing with the possibly larger flood coming in from China, Hong Kong, USA and Europe and via aircraft too. The CAA seem to care not either about these “Dangerous Goods”, they haven’t bothered Royal Mail enough to take seriously these new rules.
Why make rules that they cannot honour or wont police fairly yet they would happily close my postal account and turn me into a criminal if I posted the very same items. I cannot afford to loose my postal account – do you think China Post is in charge or Royal Mail given the massive influx of mail into the UK !?

Totally agreed and also if you send say a laptop with original battery, you can also send up to 2 spare batteries as well. But you cant send 1 battery on its own. None of Royal Mail’s thinking makes any sense and that’s why 99% or people are now completely ignoring their rules!!!!

Royal Mail have completely miss-managed this situation, they have stopped some sellers and yet allow others to continue as normal. Some businesses have been badly damaged whilst others have prospered from the increase in business…
Did you know that if you had purchased a laptop, that the seller can send you the laptop with the original battery and also 2 spare batteries in the same box but will not allow just one battery to be sent on its own – A crazy contradiction that they cannot explain to me!
Also “Lithium” batteries include those little coin cell batteries that are used in millions of calculators and devices all over the world and they fall into the postal ban too – you know those little batteries that blow up in peoples pockets and houses all the time!?
Despite sending many emails over many months to Royal Mail and the CAA I have yet to get a satisfactory response from anyone at Royal Mail including their “Dangerous Goods Team”
V Bests
Chris

Hi Paul
It appears that everyone is still posting lithium batteries from within the UK and from overseas (China and HK) so I wouldn’t worry anymore. Royal Mail seem unable to manage control they problem they caused.
Just to be clear Royal Mail allow the inclusion of lithium batteries when they are sent with the original equipment, they also allow 2 spares to be sent at the same time BUT not just the batteries on their own – this is the part that makes no sense…
Let us carry on living!
C-:

The Royal Mail states that you can send the original equipment (with batteries fitted) and also 2 spares – which is all a nonsense if the are dangerous to send alone!?
Everyone else just seems not to bother with Royal Mail rules so the choice is yours!?
V Bests
Chris

What would happen if there is a serious accident?

We can question Royal Mail’s rules and ask for evidence that they are needed, but it would be foolhardy to ignore the rules because we think they are unnecessary.

AA batteries are normally alkaline or zinc technology and so they are fine and acceptable. “Lithium” batteries are the issue for Royal Mail but that can include the very small disc shaped calculator batteries which are basically inert. Again Royal Mail state that you can send Lithium batteries if they accompany the equipment and you can even put 2 more as spares in that same box – but the question is, why are Lithium batteries un-safe on their own but fine when packed with the equipment – its is a nonsense and one that has very unfairly affected many peoples businesses!

Most sellers whether based in the UK, China, Hong Kong or USA are still using Royal Mail for the final delivery. It seems that Royal Mail have pretty much ignored this issue now as they realise it’ll cost them too much business and time to police it. And besides small lithium batteries are not really dangerous – I mean we are surrounded by millions of lithium batteries and how often do we know of any starting a fire etc. The problem was actually with a planes lithium battery which caused a fire and it was an over reaction by the CAA and Royal Mail to ban the shipment of these batteries. Despite writing several emails to both Royal Mail and the CAA they cannot explain the rules to me in a sensible manner and have indeed ignored my last emails to them requesting clarification. Its attrocious to have affected so many businesses as they did and without policing the system for those who were clearly flaunting it / getting away with it!
Common sense and business sense does not seem to be their strong points!

Assuming you are trying to send it back to a UK based supplier – Couriers should be OK. It is Royal Mail that wont transport them. Royal Mail sometimes move post around the UK by plane so on the advice of the CAA do not accept any Lithium batteries. If a Courier company doesn’t transport them by plane then you should be fine!?

For a Second Class Large Letter it’s 74p now [from 30 March 2015].

At this rate it is going to be too expensive to even consider sending batteries by post. 🙁

and the amounts of batteries sent by post must be massive – batteries for everything, range of batteries, availability and much cheaper on the internet too. You would think that Royal Mail would clarify their position as it must be affecting their business to have such confusion. I have tried but given up – they (Royal Mail) clearly do not care enough about the loss of business or their Customers!!

Hello Louise while batteries themselves are a problem , if it is a smartphone with a battery then it is conditionally okay if contained in special packaging . It must be brand new in factory sealed packaging exactly as bought in a shop , it must be specially packed in a secure package with your name+address plainly printed on the top .It is possible it will be checked out by security staff , the best way is by an International postal service company who know the rules and are approved by the UPU but it costs. Batteries by themselves are heavily restricted in capacity terms and that applies to batteries in devices sent by post.