Do you get value for money from your line rental?

So we have to wait another year, time companies and business grops were banned from lobbying govts and regulators.

BT and other telecom companies would already have the ability to change the price of caller display instantly, so they have no excuse for not setting the price to £0.00 now.

But you can bet your life they will keep charging us for it until October 2018.

Do they not have a phone number allocated when they rent a landline? If so, they could make and receive calls at any time and, even if they do not, the equipment is still available to them at the exchange. I suppose this all stems from an evolutionary process – first was a phone line and instrument, then dial up broadband, then proper broadband, all alongside the growth in mobile phone use.

I’m for a restructuring of charges that reflect the equipment you need (so a fixed charge) and the use you then make of it – either metered calls and broadband or a package price. As long as we realise it can never be completely “fair” to everyone, no more than your council tax, income tax, national insurance are for example – people will make more use than others of what they fund.

I’m no expert but I’m sure that the phone function can be disabled at the exchange if not required. As you say, charges should be fair to both the consumer and provider, but there many people who make all their calls on a mobile nowadays. These include many young people and practically all students.

I’m happy to pay for a landline but in the early Conversations it was frequently pointed out that consumers were being asked to pay for a landline that would not be used for phone calls. You are absolutely right about the historical basis of phone lines, where the ability to provide internet access became an added use of phone lines.

Malcolm – BT , like other ISP,s have integrated the line rental into the bundle charges , it is not separate now. A telephone line is provided with a number and you pay for the upkeep of that line otherwise no broadband ,this includes exchange equipment . If you want line only then go to Virgin Media cable company they do it .

I thought so duncan. I believe it was a big mistake when Ofcom required the line rental to be bundled up with the application(s), whether phone, b/b or tv. I like to see what makes up a cost and line rental highlighted that particular component.

Wavechange said that in earlier Conversations “it was frequently pointed out that consumers were being asked to pay for a landline that would not be used for phone calls”. Our house is full of things that are rarely used – what is so special about telephone calls? Obviously the fact that you have to pay for it every time you do use it but most calling plans allow for many calls without charge or they are inclusive tariffs. Choosing not to use the installed landline is a personal choice. surely? Personally I cannot see the sense in having a landline for broadband and not using it for telecoms. .

How can using a mobile phone in the house be more convenient or comfortable than using a telephone? I make and receive two or three phone calls a day in the house, most of them are landline-based at both ends and seem to be better calling or receiving experiences. The availability of excellent portable phones with a landline base-station enables people to wander about and twirl to their heart’s content and still enjoy superior reception and transmission. The people who usually call from their mobiles seem to be continually distracted and trying to do something else as they talk which can spoil a conversation. It is not unknown for me to terminate such calls in mid flow.

There are many factors that have led to the growing popularity of mobile phones and there are a significant number who never make or receive landline calls. In earlier Conversations, some pointed out that it was unfair that they should be expected to pay for a service they don’t use. I agree. Obviously the phone line itself is common to most landline and broadband services but the telephone exchange equipment and staff need not be funded by those who don’t use a landline phone, in the same way that those who don’t use broadband are not expected to contribute to the equipment needed for broadband services.

Many of the numbers in my phone are mobile numbers rather than landlines. These include people in the county council and other organisations. If I was to call mobile numbers from my landline it would be expensive, whereas my mobile tariff includes calls to landlines and mobiles. I’m happy to pay for the landline and prefer to receive calls on it because I have not got into the habit of carrying the mobile phone in my pocket.

When staying with friends and family I have noticed that the teenagers never use the landline to make calls and their friends call their mobile number.

Given that telephone exchanges are digital with minimal apparatus , most of the cost of enabling people to make and receive calls by landline is in the network rather than the exchange. There are additional costs in providing a broadband service , especially where fibre is involved. I think it makes sense to charge for each service separately so that those who do not use a landline phone can be disconnected at the exchange rather than just leave the line dormant but still capable of being used to receive and make calls.

Having managed a few months ago for a few weeks without a mobile phone I have got out of the habit and forget that I have one. I believe I am saving a lot by just keeping the PAYG facility open on a minimal basis. People who live on their mobile phones also complain about the shortage of money.

It would be interesting to know the costs exclusive to phone and broadband services and those (such as the wiring itself) that are used by both.

I suspect you are not calling many mobile numbers, John, otherwise if might be expensive. I have deleted mobile numbers from my landline phone handsets because calls were expensive, whereas these were inclusive calls from my mobile.

The capital and operating costs of all the equipment needs to be recovered somehow. If someone elects not to use their connection for phone calls and consequently expects not to pay for the proportion of cost involved, the broadband prices will increase to restore the lost revenue. That does not seem unfair to me.

Unlimited tariffs, rather than metering, gives a guaranteed income for the provider and peace of mind for the user. It is not only heavy users that slow down broadband, is it, but multiple users? I seem to remember being told that when the Americans woke up, the service slowed noticeably. I do see entertainment as an exceptionally heavy user and, since it is provided generally for a substantial subscription, part of that should, perhaps, be a national “tax” to help fund the necessary infrastructure.

All I’m suggesting is that the costs are charged fairly. Those of us who make use of both landline phone and broadband should pay more of the fixed costs than those who have no need for a landline.

I’ve frequently suggested we put an end to unlimited tariffs. It might not matter in areas which have FTTP. I don’t know if the speed is affected by the number of users.

We agree in priciple. However, it is not easy to agree on what is fair. Should someone who makes greater use of their phone line pay more towards the capital and maintenance? Should broadband be metered and charged accordingly? And as fixed costs will vary from year to year, as will usage, it could only really be charged fairly in retrospect when all the numbers are known. A nightmare for accounting and bill payers. So a simplified compromise has to be reached that is readily understood. There will always be “winners and losers”.

I agree that it’s complicated but what is very simple is that those who don’t use their landline for phone calls should pay less than those who do.

I would have looked at the line rental plus call package and/or plus broadband to evaluate an offer.

Wavechange – No, I am not calling many mobile numbers. Most of my calls are to people in commercial or public service organisations and I use their landline numbers. If I don’t know their extension I go through their switchboard. For family and friends my calls are rarely urgent and I send letters, cards or e-mail messages. For voluntary activities we tend to make fixtures and stick to them and don’t need to make contact with each other in advance. These measures are not for reasons of economy, it’s just the way I prefer to do things. I just can’t understand the need for constant catch-up and dialogue.

John – I’m not suggesting that you or anyone else switches to using a mobile. My point is simply that the fixed charges should be less for those who use only broadband services than for those who use broadband plus phone.

Many companies and other organisations provide their employees with mobile phones instead of landlines or (in the case of senior staff) in addition to landline phones. I’m fortunate to have been given mobile numbers of people I have regular contact with, which saves the tedious job of going through the switchboard and often finding they are out of their office. At present it would be expensive for me to call from my landline. I look forward to having the inclusive calls to mobiles from my landline, as mentioned by Ian.

Are you able to make and receive calls on your mobile using your home WiFi, making use of your landline, Ian?

Anyone who uses Fibre (BT Openreach) or ADSL broadband must pay line rental but it doesn’t mean that they should be paying for a phone service they are not using.

Wave: yep; we can, but use the landline for calls generally. We don’t give our mobile number out. Otherwise people will be able to ring us when we’re out… 🙂

It is a nuisance when people call when you are busy, either on a mobile or landline. I often call people as soon as I receive an email and it usually avoids having to leave a message or calling when they are busy.

I hope you have network coverage soon.

Anthony if you acknowledge you must pay for a underground connection to the exchange then you are NOT automatically paying for the instrument , that went out years ago .You pay for line/exchange equipment upkeep. If this is a great injustice as some imply – why tyhen the answer is simple . Do what sometimes is the case in the USA DONT pay any upkeep and the next time a storm occurs pay for those poles/wiring/underground cable from your INSURANCE –and see the real cost which will be £1000,s . You cant have it both ways . And by the way NOTHING gets done in the USA until you PAY for it .

Yesterday someone called me and we were having a lengthy conversation when she suddenly said her mobile phone was ringing and she would have to call me back. Why? Why does a call on the mobile take priority? Also she didn’t apologise for interrupting me on a Sunday morning and then she disturbed me again later on and started all over again. What has happened to telephone etiquette? I suppose it’s my fault for being available.

It depends which phone is ringing and who the second caller is when I am already on the phone whether it can be left until it stops ringing.

I might ask the person to hold on a second while I answer the other phone and say to the second caller, I am on the other phone and will call them back in 10 minutes and apologize to the first caller. Stops interruptions to the first call and the second caller knows they will be able to speak to you when you are free.

But John’s caller was extremely rude.

I completely agree with Alfa.

If a second call comes in when I’m using the mobile I will explain to the person I’m speaking to, switch to the second caller to say I will call back and then go back to the person I was speaking to.

I think you missed a trick there, John. When she called you back, after two minutes you should have said – “Oh, sorry – the house next door is on fire. I’ll call you back.” If you really wanted to drive the point home, however, you could have told her the newspaper had just been delivered and you needed to read it. Might have made her consider her priorities.

Thank you Ian. These little gems never occur to you when the time is ripe. I especially like the newspaper excuse. It reminds me of the reported response of Peter Cook when someone he didn’t wish to socialise with invited him to a dinner party. Looking in his diary he said “Oh dear; I’m terribly sorry . . . I see I’m watching television that night.”

That’s delightful if a bit laboured, being more than twice as long as the original version. No doubt similar hassles are available from other service providers.

It is a bit long – frequently a problem with amateurs – but nicely done.

Donald Swann did at least play the piano as he and Michael Flanders sang their songs.

I suppose backing tracks are available for almost anything nowadays; hopefully this means that real talent now gets the full recognition it deserves.

I met Flanders some years ago and he was every bit as charming, intelligent and witty in real life as he seemed on stage. Continuously made jokes about being in a wheelchair. But they were astonishingly good at what they both did and Tom Lehrer – their US equivalent – was just as funny, but in a very different way.

The accompaniment that Donald Swann provided for their own recitals was brilliant – I listened to that just as much as their clever songs. I believe providing a “proper” accompaniment is a great skill.

You never know when you see people in the spotlight whether their real-life persona matches their public image. I am pleased that was the case with Donald. I wonder if the opposite applies to another Donald? I do hope so. 🙁

When at home we use our landline for calls to other landlines; no batteries to recharge, comfortable handset, not a flat slab, and the ringtone is loud enough to alert us wherever we are in the house (and it won’t be left in the car or a coat pocket – when it just stops ringing as you track it down). The mobile is used to phone other mobiles to save money. However, perhaps if this problem were addresses more use would be made of landlines, and smart phones would be left for mobile computing.

Yes, spooky indeed, Beryl. Have the security services paid you a call at some point and left some apparatus concealed somewhere? I guess it is stray currents from something interfering with the sensitive electronic controls on your TV and home phone .

There is a simple explanation for the engaged tone. That’s what happens when someone else is calling the number.

Wouldn’t life be interesting if the system could put the two parties in touch with each other?

Definitely spooky Beryl. 👻
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I agree with wavechange when he says it could be someone else ringing you at the same time. Maybe BT can confirm received and missed calls for you. Another thought, could you be on a party line (if they still exist) and the other party is on the line.
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For the TV, I would suggest something is faulty or maybe it responds to a neighbour’s remote control. 🤖

Does anyone remember the days of party lines, when you could not make calls when the neighbour was on the phone? In some areas there was not enough capacity to provide individual phone lines. Thankfully we have moved on.

Technology is fun. A friend has a wireless door bell which sometimes rings the neighbour’s bell instead.

Our doorbell is fun ⁉️ (or not). Someone presses the button and it can stay pressed in until the battery runs out.

We keep meaning to get a new one. You used to be able to go into a store and try them all out before buying, so you could hear a sound you could live with, but they only now come in sealed plastic containers so what they sound like is pot luck.

That happens with ours sometimes. I cured the previous one’s tendency to do it with a quick squirt of WD40.

When I was at school I devised a simple circuit that made our ding-dong door bell ring about six times when anyone pressed the bell push once. My parents soon worked out what was going on but had a good enough sense of humour not to instruct me to remove it immediately.

I am sorry Beryl I missed your post for some reason. Patrick has put some good engineering points . I can asasure you you are not sharing your line as that type of service no longer applies in Britain , in the sense it meant in the old days where, if one party was on the phone the other party could not use it . a later version digitally split the lines by providing a digital box in one subscribers house but if the UG were working in it and reversed the wires it would not function . That too is obsolete.. BT testing the line and saying “its okay ” doesn’t prove too much. If it was an intermittent short circuit you would bet crackling and cut-off in dial tone (speech ) ADSL can work with one wire so your broadband shouldn’t be affected.A direct disconnection of one wire would not give a short circuit just unanswered ringing. It leaves three things an intermittent fault in your home – an exchange fault / if fibre a cabinet fault (FTTC ) or ,if you live in a flat somebody using your line by connecting theirs to yours , but if that was the case you would hear them at some point on your line. If it was an intermittent fault caused by trees rubbing your overhead wiring eventually the bare wires would break down and disconnect completely , if it was a wall box then others would be affected due to ingress of water . A flooding duct would affect others . First speps– disconnect all your extension wiring by unscrewing the master socket cover plate and plugging a phone into the test socket only –ALL extension wiring removed , try that for TWO days then get back Beryl, again apologies for missing your post. You now havec my undivided attention until you get a result.

Thanks Duncan. At the moment I have only looked at the U-switch site but will investigate a bit further. One of the problems with both the BT and PO options is that they do not over an all calls package like TalkTalk which is 24/7 and includes calls to mobiles.

Interestingly, when I clicked the link to the TalkTalk offer on USwitch, it put me through to an offer at £23.95 which is the same as the single “offer” open to me on the “your offers” link on my TalkTalk account home page. The USwitch page makes it clear that the £17 offer is open to existing customers so I think I will need to talk to TalkTalk when I have recovered from my laryngitis! The info about the OfCom and BT will be helpful in this. Your USA options sound rather complex, but I would want to avoid a solution that relied on either of my ISP or mobile as both are flaky and susceptible to bad weather.