Are your LED light bulbs burning out too soon?

My suggestion would be to give priority to the lumen rating for LED lamps and consign the wattage to the back of the packaging. It’s still useful for those who are familiar with the light output of old fashioned light bulbs. I have not seen any mention of Lux on any lamp packaging, though I have seen it on some bars of soap. 🙂

Which? brand of LEDs failed within a few minutes, Keith? It’s quite common for products to fail when new, hence shops will usually replace them without question if you have the guarantee. Nevertheless, it should not happen often.

Producing LED replacements for bulbs has been difficult and in some cases impossible. For example we don’t have replacements for tiny halogen capsules or the replacement is considerably larger (e.g. G9 type).

Most people will not understand lumens, but will relate to filament lamp wattage equivalent. Re-education will take time, as with going metric. So wattage equivalent plus lumens for now is my proposal.

I use Metric Leather rather than Lux – the latter not being a measure of light output of course.

Actually I’ve bought tiny LED replcements (from Screwfix I think). Just a little bigger than the halogens, but fitted OK.

I hope you have returned the failed lamps for replacement, Mike. I had not heard of the Crimson brand but some of the Amazon reviews warn of rapid failure.

Found on Facebook:
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our products are
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for trade enquiry-9894096097
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Oh dear! I am sorry you have made bad purchases, Mike.

I think you would be well advised to buy replacements from well-known brands in future. I have found Tesco and Philips LED’s satisfactory with no premature failures for ordinary bulb-type lamps [including golf-ball and candle designs].

I have had less success with pre-installed capsule lamps in multi-branch ceiling light fittings but replacing them all with a better brand as soon as the first one fails has been satisfactory.

I have also replaced a few halogen downlighter lamps with Philips LEDs and they are giving good service.

You might need to pay a bit more at the outset but the longer life will repay the expense.

@mikesterland Hi Mike – I hope that you can overcome your problems with LED lamps by switching to other brands. It might be worth checking with neighbours to see if they are having problems in case there is a problem with voltage spikes. It’s best not to have LEDs on the same circuit as fluorescent strip lights, which can cause these spikes.

Best of luck.

I suggest you ask the retailer to replace them, Andy. If you don’t have the receipt a card statement may provide evidence of purchases. Alternatively you could contact Philips because they have claimed a long life. 15 years corresponds to about 13,000 hours of continuous use.

You’re right it is usually heat, and the consistency of 9 months would suggest this is most likely in your case. It is the nearly always capacitors on the driver/power board rather than the LEDs themselves. Reputable brands bought from reputable companies have better grade capacitors and better thermal management.

Are the fixtures where it fails with the LEDs at the bottom or top of the (ie are they uplight or downlight arrangements?

One other comment – is there a dimmer in the circuit? If so, there could well be an incompatibility between dimmer and LED bulb . That is a minefield.

Direct replacements for old fashioned bulbs and halogen lamps are at risk of overheating, and Roger has highlighted the main reasons. Two ways of reducing the risk of damaging components by heat are to use lower power LEDs (if practical) or replacing fixtures where it is necessary to use a powerful LED lamp, choosing a fixture that promotes good air flow – one that is open at the top and bottom will act like a chimney and create an air flow. It’s important to avoid mixing halogen and LED lamps in the same fixture because the former will cook the electronics in the latter.

The LED lamps in Johnwell’s bathroom vanity unit are likely to have survived because they are well spaced and probably low power.

Separating the LEDs from the drivers certainly makes sense to avoid overheating of the electronics but it might be worth having more than one driver per room. The disadvantage of using a single driver is that if it fails it is not as easy to replace as simply changing a lamp.

When I moved into my present house I promptly replaced the 12V MR16 halogen downlighters in the bathrooms with LEDs but kept the individual drivers rather than running all the LEDs in a room from a single driver. I’m glad I did because one of the drivers died. When it was convenient I connected two lamps to one driver but in meantime the rest of the LEDs carried on working.

While they are neat and considered stylish, I would caution against recessed downlighters from the point of view of the quality of the light they produce, especially in kitchens and bathrooms where they seem to be prolific. Such downlighters produce a downwards cone of light that creates sharp shadows — not good in a bathroom for shaving, applying make-up, and other close work to the face. They provide very little in the way of ambient light to illuminate an area.

In my opinion, a better option is a surface-mounted globe- or bowl-shaped integrated LED fitting with a high lumen specification. This provides both direct and indirect light for overall comfort and functionality. By being below the ceiling there is a substantial amount of diffused light reflected from the ceiling enhancing the overall ambience. They are available with the appropriate moisture ingress protection [IP No.] for all domestic applications and can last a very long time before replacement becomes necessary.

Another thing to watch out for with recessed downlighters, especially when used with halogens, is the risk of fire, especially when used upstairs where there’s loft insulation fitted as with halogen bulbs too much of their heat goes upwards and into the insulation and they can sometimes set it on fire unless it’s cleared from above each fitting, or else fire safe fittings should be used, this is especially important where older less fire resistant insulation is still in place. And another important fire prevention measure where they’re used with a fan above a shower is that the fan must work together with the light so that the light cannot come on on it’s own without the fan or else the rising heat can burn the flimsy plastic flexible air ducting which is often used in such an installation, as it is in a friend’s house where I’ve done quite a bit of work over the years. Personally I think a shower with a downlighter should only be used with the safer aluminium ducting in case the fan fails leaving a halogen light on without extraction.

That is a good point. My surveyor warned me that the halogen downlighters in the bathrooms were buried under a thick layer of insulation, which is why I replaced them as soon as possible. The fans are separate and more effective than ones combined with downlighters.

I have done a risk assessment and decided that the 40cm of fibreglass insulation would do enough to deter spread of fire. I can see little risk of wiring supplying 5.5 watt lamps overheating. If I have the bathrooms refurbished I will ensure that everything is done to modern standards but living alone I just have to look after myself. Perhaps fire-rated downlighters should have been a requirement from the start.

As a child I quickly learned to catch my 15W Antex soldering iron by the handle as it headed towards the carpet. 🙁

London Fire Brigade and Which? have condemned fridges and freezers with flammable plastic backs but few are concerned about the widespread use of plastics elsewhere in the cases of white goods. There are numerous photos online of dryers and washing machines with fascias and other parts that have burned or melted, allowing fire to spread. Perhaps when more people are tempted to run appliances overnight someone in authority might waken up to the problem.

At least my windows and doors comply with current requirements.

Should we be concerned about the widespread use of plastics in aircraft?

I’m more concerned about the safety of products in my home, Malcolm. I know that I have appliances with flammable plastics in their cases.

The point is “plastics” is a generic term for a very wide range of materials with very differing properties, including their resistance to heat. International Standards specify the performance required of such materials when used in different applications, including domestic appliances and the UK requires these standards to by met by regulation.

Where appliances have failed in a fire then the first question to address is whether the materials used were non-compliant. If they were not then action should be taken against the supplier. If they did, in fact, pass all the relevant tests then the requirements of the international standard should be re-examined and, if appropriate, more stringent material properties demanded. BSI are our representative to consider and take such information to the international committee. Which? are hopefully still a member of the relevant BSI committee and should, if they are concerned, raise this with them.

The standards are the same throughout the whole of the EU as well as the UK and in many countries in the rest of the world. I imagine if there were sufficient concern they would all be raising this problem, directly or through their consumer groups. Perhaps Which? @gmartin (Happy New Year, George) could tell us more.

I have taken samples from the cases of my white goods and other household items and they all burned merrily producing smoke. I have also posted numerous photos of burned out dryers and washing machines on Conversation. Why don’t you try testing small samples of plastic from your own products and you can see for yourself?

I am a little wary of leaving a breadmaker on overnight but I am awake by the time the baking stage starts and I have loud interlinked smoke detectors.

Your samples were not tested according to recognised standards. As I replied when this was first discussed I can set steel on fire – the material the casings are made of – by inappropriate samples and tests.

However, the question I asked was wider. No need to repeat it. But you can raise your concerns with BSI direct or through Which?, the London Fire Brigade or any other committee member. It is a serious issue so please keep us posted.

Have you discussed your tests with Which?

As we are well off topic, if the discussion is to continue this might be an appropriate Convo https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/faulty-kitchen-appliances-electricfires/

We have discussed all this before, Malcolm. The fires that start in white goods and have cost people their homes did not happen under standard conditions.

I suggest we get back on topic.

I suggest a Convo above. However, to answer your point, safety standards deal specifically with abnormal conditions as well as “normal” ones. If you have access to standards online this will explain:
Household and similar electrical appliances. Safety – General requirements
BS EN 60335-1:2012+A15:2021

I suggest we get back on topic and then you edit your post to say that we are off topic. 🙂

@gmartin, George, although I imagine this bit of discussion is now concluded, as there is a more relevant home for it you could, if you feel it appropriate, transfer comments from where it was started https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/led-light-bulbs-ikea-tcp-life-span/#comment-1643320 onwards?