What is the value in getting a house survey?

Hi Lauren – After my initial disappointment, I realised that there were some good reasons that her report was more detailed than mine. It was considerably older, had had a recent major extension and new windows throughout. On the other hand mine just had a conservatory added, soon after construction.

After the survey I had a long chat with my surveyor and he was very reassuring. His report alerted me to the fact that the textured ceilings were probably free from asbestos since the house was built in 1998, but advised testing prior to work being carried out. On the phone he told me that tests on nearby houses had not revealed asbestos, which was reassuring. He was also able to tell me that he had not seen any evidence of local problems with subsidence or drainage. If I had pointed out that his junior colleague had produced a more comprehensive report for a friend, I doubt he would have been as helpful.

I have since heard that some surveyors are happy for potential buyers to go round with them. This might be a useful for those who are aware of defects and would benefit from a more detailed survey of the problems, obviously at extra cost.

House buying is a horrendous process, anyway, fraught with disappointment, tension and a welter of conflicting emotions. It’s supposed to be almost as bad as divorce, but I suspect it may easily cause a few.

We’ve moved several times and in each survey you can more or less guarantee that the surveyor’s report will be couched in such as way as to protect the surveyor and cover all eventualities. But when selling one house we discovered that one surveyor picked up the old wiring, whilst the one that eventually bought it missed both that and the heave in the lounge concrete floor, across which we’d strategically positioned a coffee table. The houses in the road all had foundational heave to an extent, possibly caused by fermentation beneath being trapped by the damp-proof membrane, so I was truly surprised he didn’t spot it.

A second house had quite a bit of woodworm, but again the surveyor on that occasion missed it completely – once when we bought it, once when we sold it. But there is some value in having a surveyor’s report, if only for the fact that if they miss something glaringly – obvious like the headstone in the kitchen – you can seek recompense after the event.

The other factor, of course, is that professional surveyors do it all day, every day (surveying, of course…) and they hopefully become familiar with vendors attempting to conceal things, like floor heave and bodies. But congratulations on your new home, Lauren. Once you’ve spent a few Christmases there and got it exactly the way you want it it’ll be ready to sell. And so the wheel turns…

Given the general anxiety involved in house purchase it is understandable that people are wary of putting any obstacles in the way of achieving a smooth transfer and first-time buyers are possibly more reluctant than most. This not just about impatience or lack of funds for a survey but due to the pressures of a hot market when a property can be on and off the market within an hour, although this is mainly a Greater London phenomenon. First-time buyers generally don’t have their own roof over their heads whereas second-time buyers do so they can be more relaxed about letting a prospective purchase go. First-time buyers are also more likely to be willing to deal with problems as they arise and also don’t see their first property as their long-term future home. Something that might be worth considering for any buyers is to carry out a viewing when it’s raining heavily: a bucket in the bedroom will tell you more about a property in an instant than any surveyor’s report!

Mmmm …woodworm !!!

A surveyor’s report said we had woodworm in the loft when you could see the holes were around where a dartboard had hung at one stage.

The building society insisted we had woodworm treatment. We enlisted a specialist who shut himself in the loft for half an hour, issued us with a certificate and left.

Funny, there was absolutely no sign he had done anything, no smell, no sign of liquid, powder or anything else.

Good job there really was no woodworm !!!

It’s difficult to believe that anyone could think that a circle of holes could be woodworm but stranger things have happened. If dust falls out of the holes when wood is tapped, that is a good sign of active woodworm. Maybe listen carefully in case they are noisy eaters.

If ever there were a bad light source for a bathroom it is a halogen downlighter! Apart from the technical and economic shortcomings they give the worst possible illumination whether for shaving or make-up as they cast an unfavourable light with awkward shadows. Because they are recessed in the ceiling they project a narrow vertical cone of light interspersed with pools of shadow and no reflection of light back off the ceiling to create an ambient light. I would demand at least £200 off the price for immediate rectification! Replacing the halogen lamps with LED lamps would mitigate the heat problem in the ceiling void or roofspace but would not improve the illumination performance of the bathroom lighting.

I could not agree more, John. I did replace the lot with LED bulbs, but I resisted encouragement to install halogen downlighters in my previous home. I suspect the vendors were very happy with the bathrooms and might not have agreed that this was a valid reason for a price reduction. I used other tactics.

One of the things that put me off some of the houses I looked at was kitchens with downlighters, sometimes not even well positioned. I don’t like my bathroom downlighters but at least they are carefully sited.

In any room you ideally need light from all directions. The effect of overhead lighting – even some pendants – can be greatly improved by using uplighters, table lamps, wall lights for example – anything that puts light on walls and the ceiling. In a bathroom one good way is to have either a mirror over the basin with inbuilt lights, or separate wall light(s) to the side. Alternatively use something like a ceiling track with lights that can be aimed around the space, using an existing supply point. Worth spending money on decent lighting and professional installation; rarely done, seemingly.

I agree, but I’m not keen on the idea of track lighting in a bathroom, where the humidity can be high.

You need the appropriate light fittings designed for bathrooms. These will have protection against moisture. Mine has screw-fit glass cylinders over the TH lamp capsules and a neoprene gasket between the body and the backplate. A b***er to install when up the steps. I don’t know why evolution did not provide us with an extra hand and arm. mrs r was fortunately to hand.

A better design is to use a captive gasket silicone rubber O-ring that might not get lost or forgotten when the lamp is replaced. I was lucky with mine but in future it is a feature I would look for before ordering. Whatever the IP rating I would not want track lighting in a bathroom.

I agree about the need for third hands and that could be included in revised standards for human beings, along with eyes that don’t need sight correction and teeth resistant to abuse by 21st century diets.

I have recently had some excellent John Lewis bathroom ceiling lights installed that are integrated LED’s. When it fails the whole unit will have to be replaced but that should be many years away. They fit flush to the ceiling and have a shallow enclosing translucent bowl that illuminates the whole area very satisfactorily with virtually no shadows and in a diffused opal glow. They are certainly bright enough and are probably the best bathroom lights I have seen for a long time [good value for money at £55 each in my opinion]. I could have fitted them myself but we were having other electrical work done at the time so the electrician put them up for us.

They should last for long enough unless you are spending much too long in the bath.

“revised standards for human beings, ”
And bodies that don’t over-enlarge. To clarify, the backplate gasket is only fitted at installation. The lamps are simply replaced by removing a protective glass cylinder. However the principle was to distribute light around the room, and the usefulness of adjustable multiple lights on a backplate is you can aim them to suit the room they are in.

Lighting fittings can be quite expensive. The example I put in my bathroom was £150 from a well-known retailer. I bought the self-same product online for £45 from a reputable source. It is a shame many regard lighting as a necessary service but don’t put much thought or money into it – perhaps because they need it installed by an expensive electrician. Yet it can do as much, or more, to enhance a space as expensive decoration.

I see, Malcolm. Nevertheless there are examples of lighting and other products where important parts may become detached and not refitted. I agree about the value about having adjustable lights. When doing DIY I prefer screws to nails because it’s easy to make changes. 🙂

I don’t know if surveyors comment on lighting but mine did not, apart from the bathroom downlighters. A friend who helped me look round the house I bought commented on the lack of ceiling lighting in the main room. I will probably replace the uplighters as those in neighbouring houses have done, but I prefer table lamps, reading lamps etc., which can easily be moved when needed. One of the things I looked for was the number and position of sockets in the rooms.

One of the surveyors I spoke to suggested that it might be useful to get an electrician to look at the property. I might have done that if it had been an older property but there was no evidence of DIY work and the bathroom lighting was the only problem.

Thanks Lauren

The house I eventually bought was unoccupied, but the vendors had not yet moved the larger pieces of furniture. After the first visit I asked the estate agent to find out if it was OK to take photos. I was given the go-ahead and told that personal items had been removed. In all I must have made at least six visits before the survey and another one while negotiating a price, mainly because I wanted to check information for insurance purposes. I did delete the photos soon after completion and the friend who had helped with the inspection did the same.

I think it is quite ludicrous to expect people to view a property in ten minutes and then make a financial offer and the estate agent sounds a bit sharp to me – but then I am no longer closely in touch with the London market. Having said that, two years ago I was involved in selling my late mother-in-law’s house near a tube station in SW17 by auction and it attracted over 180 viewings spread over three days in one 30 minute time slot each day and then absolutely galloped away at the auction even though it probably needed £100,000 spending on it.

To some extent the time required for a first viewing depends on the size of the property and its condition. However, in the circumstances you have described with 28 offers it is difficult to see how the agent could handle it much differently – other than by setting the price at a more realistic level in the first place; I would expect they were hoping to end up in a “sealed bids – best and final offers” situation in order to take the price way beyond what it was placed on the market at. This wastes so much time. That scenario shows the advantages of doing your homework before even viewing a property: marking up the sale particulars, being sure of your financial limits and any stretch potential, checking out the local amenities and facilities, transport links, schools, day nurseries, parking restrictions, neighbourhood quality, and so on, so as not to waste too much time looking at unsuitable properties.

Wavechange – you were fortunate to have the opportunity for a number of visits, presumably because the house was vacant. Most people get only an initial pre-offer viewing and then a second viewing after acceptance. Sellers invariably say “feel free to come back for another look or to check anything over” but British reserve seems to inhibit this. Once the transaction gets into the hands of the conveyancers and the formal questions and answers stage the informal contact does not seem appropriate. I am sure that in many cases, however, sellers are willing to exchange e-mails and perhaps even send photographs if it will help their sale along. When we sold our previous property the buyers came from the west coast of Wales, about as far apart as it was possible to get between two points in Great Britain on a line of latitude, so their daughter came for the initial viewing and reported back and the buyers came just once for an extended viewing. We then had quite a bit of e-mail correspondence with them about local amenities and a lot of very detailed information about the house [including my shrubs list!].

After the first viewing, I said that I would like to make a thorough inspection, including the loft and garage, confirm room sizes, check windows and doors, look at the garden and look for problems with the heating, electrical and plumbing systems. They allocated only 45 minutes per viewing because appointments were arranged at hourly intervals but were happy to come and take a seat while I did a full examination, took photos and made notes in case there was something worth discussing with the surveyor. Had the estate agent not allowed me multiple viewings I would have spent more on a survey.

John – I was very fortunate and was able to do plenty of checks during the visits including plugging a tester into every power point in the house and garage. I checked that every radiator had no cold spots (an indication of advanced corrosion) and looked for sediment in the header tank in the loft, inspected visible joints for leakage and so on. My friend’s vendors were happy to offer multiple viewings because a chain was involved and they needed to sell quickly. I was dragged round on three of the viewings and asked to deal the technical matters. It was nice to be made coffee and have questions answered but it’s difficult to make a thorough inspection when a house is occupied if you have any respect for people’s privacy. On the other hand, it is a surveyor’s job to do this.

Good grief! A soul mate! I’ve never encountered anyone before who makes choosing the location for their Christmas tree a priority!

In our third house, a six bedroom detached with a couple of acres of land, we had an entrance hall the size of most lounges, and it had a real fireplace, so we knew where the tree was going in that one. In the next place we found a house with an upstairs landing where a second tree could be erected, so the children would see it twinkling softly as they went to bed.

In our current place, which overlooks Snowdonia and is high in the Mountains, we’re lucky to have a substantial lounge, and the main tree goes at the East end, with smaller trees in other rooms and locations.

So yes, Lauren; like you I’m a Christmasholic, and we chose our tree last month and will be collecting it on 1st December, by which time it might have grown an inch or so. But I’m really glad we’re nowhere near the SE; prices here are bad enough but I can only imagine what they’d be like for the houses we’ve had.

John, from what I recall any specialist work would not be the responsibility of the survey – electrics, gas, drains and solar panels perhaps. Is this correct? Do you need to arrange these separately, or can you arrange for the surveyor to arrange them@ They can be expensive to put right.

I wasn’t thinking so much about doing any work on or to the panels as reporting on their condition, in particular how well secured they are to the roof or whether there are any potential problems for the homeowner to look out for. Surveyors will normally look at the roof and guttering using binoculars if necessary but would not normally be able to see whether solar panels were fixed properly or whether the underlying roof was damaged. I expect they would charge extra for a special examination if the buyer requested it – especially since only a minority of properties have solar panels. It would depend also on whether they can get into the roof-space to see whether the apparatus looks to be in satisfactory condition.

Generally, unless specifically requested, surveyors will not test utility services but will, as standard, look at electricity consumer unit and advise on any remedial work if necessary; they will also look at light switches and power sockets as they go around the property and report on damaged or defective units. I believe some surveyors do a drain test as standard and some will do a chimney test. Personally I think an electrician’s inspection is worth it after moving in especially to check that earthing is adequate and that circuits are not overloaded.

As Lauren discovered, the surveyor should state what they didn’t check so that either a specific inspection can be arranged if required or a specialist contractor can be instructed to examine it. As you say, Malcolm, putting the fundamental things right can be very expensive, and the whole point of a building survey is to identify any potential defects and estimate the cost of remedying them, possibly also with a view to reducing the price or walking away altogether.

My surveyor did advise that the consumer unit had a plastic case. I was aware that these have been phased out for new buildings. That will be among the useful information that can be copy and pasted into many reports. A £45 plug-in tester will reveal poor earthing and other problems and requires no skill to use. I lent mine to a friend (who was not moving house) and he found three faulty sockets in the kitchen, probably thanks to a kitchen fitter. An unearthed kettle etc could kill. There are cheaper testers which reveal various problems but they do not show poor earthing. Having seen many examples of earth faults over the years I believe that it would be worth surveyors checking power sockets. Unless a house has been built within the last decade or so, it’s probably worth getting in an electrician to look at electrical installations.

Did you negotiate any price reductions when you saw obvious signs of emerging problems, Ry? And did you actually challenge any of the surveyors when you easily noticed what they had missed?

There are AFAIR three types of valuation/survey.

The drive-by – it is still standing bog-standard construction.
The wander around the property as the B socy are paying us to do [with your money]
The full structural which unfortunately comes with many caveats like the previous.

I am sure there are good surveyors bu the trouble is they are paid poorly by the lenders and therefore have to scuttle around many properties a day. I do have the RICS book Surveying Properties 3edition 1991 produced around 26years ago detailing the change taking place even then from a half or full day a property that was then allocated.

There is absolutely no reason that Which? could not put something similar on-line so people can really get a feel for the potential pitfalls. I am not suggesting that one can avoid surveys for the lender but at least subscribers could understand more of the process. *

The legal liability of surveyors to those who pay the bill was , and perhaps still is a minefield.

I have bought a 19th century property recently sans survey. At the end of day if a property is cheap enough and in the right position one pays for the expected work. Just deathwatch beetle , woodworm and cracks, inadequate heating and plumbing etc. But all of this was either visible or unsurprising in a very old building.

* Perhaps Which? could trawl up and publish the various cases of surveyor culpability and the ones consumers lost to highlight a problem to be rectified.

There is also an academic report on poor surveying dating back to the early 1990’s and I have no doubt a similar test of a prepared house with defects would also show a wide range of “standards”.

From speaking to three surveyors it is possible to have customised surveys to suit your requirements. The one I chose had looked at a number of homes nearby and had followed the construction work when the homes were being built, about 18 years earlier. None of the surveyors though it was worth having a full survey and a year later, I am convinced I was right to save my money.

A friend’s daughter has bought an old property and had a full survey. That failed to discover some problems that soon became apparent. The other daughter has recently gained a law degree and has volunteered her services when the case goes to court, apparently with support from others in the firm. I will be interested to see the outcome because there seem to be so many disclaimers in solicitors’ reports.

” there are good surveyors bu the trouble is they are paid poorly by the lenders”. The lender wants to know if they will get their money back should the borrower default. That is what their surveyor is employed for. As a buyer you can use any surveyor you choose to do the work for you. and instruct them accordingly. They or you can employ other professionals as needed.

valpy, a good practical suggestion. I would still use a reputable surveyor and ask for a full survey of all items of concern. if they get it wrong their insurance will recompense you for work needed – I understand. A local builder, ideally who has worked on that or similar properties, will add first hand knowledge.