What does the crumbling of GB Energy Supply mean for its customers?

Same issue – multiple requests for a refund of big credit balance ignored over the last 6 months. Met their guys who had a stand t a show in Scotland. Complained personally and received a call the following week saying I would receive refund in 7 to 10 days. Then, nothing heard until collapse announced!

Ofgem say “Co-operative Energy is offering GB Energy Supply’s customers the same price as they were paying before, both for customers on fixed deals and on standard variable tariffs. If customers wish to change their tariff, they should ask Co-operative Energy to switch to another deal, or shop around. No exit fees will be charged.”

It looks as if someone is pulling a cable connected to a plug, confirmed by the image name ‘pull-plug’. That’s naughty to show poor practice. Apart from that, the screw heads are not aligned, which is aesthetically wrong.

It looks like it was done for purely advertising and not safety , fingers should be on either side of the plug to pull it out but you would not have seen the plug and notice ——–its switched ON !!! dangerous !

It was the fact that the socket was switched on that alarmed me but it was a poor choice of image generally – but at least it was electricity and not gas that someone was playing with.

I think the image should have been named ‘pull cable’.

I am glad there is someone else who likes to get their screw heads aligned.

I searched for the photo and it is a stock Shutterstock image, entitled “A male hand is pulling an electrical cord plugged into a wall socket”. Which? is a licensed user and many Convos introductions use these images. It’s shocking that this Convo is being led off topic. 🙂

I’m impressed that Which? has launched Convo so soon after the event and that Liz Ford has kindly contributed the topic so quickly.

I agree; this development opens up some interesting questions and It would be helpful if Liz could possibly give us her initial thoughts on being transferred to The Co-operative Energy.

If you mean aligned as in -flush with the surface of the socket then engineering standards have dropped . Originally there were special long screws for British 3 pin sockets they had no s******g at the end to allow easier finding of the holes in the metal socket holder built into the wall . The ends were flat and had a taper so that they were always below the surface , this was a safety feature as, if the metal socket was not earthed it was possible a loose live wire could touch the metal and 240 V AC could be at the ends of the screws which a child could touch . Nowadays mouldings are more roughly made and dome headed screws used which never become flush , hence the introduction of tapered 3 pin pugs . Now we have cheap imports. How can an engineering term used every day in engineering by myself a millions of others in engineering in my day be offensive ?? Do Which know anything about industrial mechanical engineering ? , I repaired many machine tools with that particular word used to describe the actions it performed on a piece of mild steel bar ,as a matter of fact I could name engineering websites using that term now ! Talk about navel gazing !

“I am glad there is someone else who likes to get their screw heads aligned.”

Do I sense some fellow CDO sufferers here?

(CDO is like OCD – obsessive compulsive disorder – but with its letters indexed correctly).

No Derek just very upset like myself that electrical engineering standards have fallen through the floor , this country is becoming engineering illiterate and I dont blame the public. Do you remember the high quality of MK electrical products way back in the 50,s ? well now its cheeeeep imports from toodlytun tun in (somewhere ) in eastern Asia (guess where? ). By the way I have -old stock original sockets AND plugs by MK –now there was quality !

My OCD is restricted to sockets, door handles, etc. that I fit myself. I don’t bother about others.

Duncan – By writing about the alignment of screw heads I was referring to the slots across the top. In my opinion they should both be at the same angle. I prefer a 45 degree angle if possible. The socket in the picture looks like an MK product and, in my opinion, they are still very good. I would hope this closes this digression.

Thank you Lauren. I can assure you that nothing is outside our scrutiny!

I don’t profess to know much about electricity but common sense tells me to grab a plug and not its flex when pulling it from its socket. Some plugs even have finger indents to assist when pulling. Inserting a plug with my not so young fingers I find is becoming more difficult than extracting, especially when the socket is hidden away in some dark corner near the ground!

PS I don’t have any concerns about the positions of screw heads on platelets…….. only the ones that are fixed to human bodies 🙂

Not sure it’s entirely your “not so young fingers”, Beryl; there’s been a worrying trend over the past 20 years to produce plugs which look good but lack the shape which makes them easy to withdraw from a socket. It’s actually something Which? might have challenged.

Wire u so concerned about the photo? It just shows an electrician checking why there is no power to the vacuum cleaner by pulling and pushing on the cable – it might have become loose in the plug. Please do not try this at home.

As for screwheads (the socket screws, not the electrician) in joinery when slotted screwheads are exposed it looks really professional if the slots all align. You can do this in wood because it compresses. Plastic does not, and the essential thing is to fix it sufficiently tightly, not to bother about backing off or overtightening for appearance. My sons have an eye for detail and dislike plastic sockets and switches anyway so have fitted metal ones, with a snap-on faceplate that conceals the fixings. I must admit they looker classier than mine.

The design wont change due to the physical position of the two screws holding the socket in Ian it means modern plugs must be waisted to allow access to the screws as I posted above . As the design manufacturing quality has gone down allowing dome headed screws to protrude from the flat surface of the molding, all the regulars here are big on British Standards why havent they lookup up Electrical Standards to see the UK has a set distance between the screws and that conforms to a standards set for the retaining socket built into the wall , I knew that as a teenager and that included the special screws I mentioned they were Standard too but , as I said , cheap imports arent up to the Standards in mechanical design so compromises are made ( turn a blind eye etc )

“electrician ” pulling on the cable ????? more like the hand of some “nut job ” who thinks he “knows what he is doing ” because he can replace a fuse , I am aghast a Which regular has said that malcolm ,come on !! get out your Electrical Engineering book for obtaining certification in electrical engineering and show me the passage that says that ?? more like the Woolworth “guide ” to DIY electrics and edition 2 says -how to make a good coffin. .

I agree Ian , I would welcome that.

The other bit of common sense is to switch off the socket before removing the plug. If you have bought a plug online you might find the pins are not properly insulated and can get a shock when withdrawing it.

I think this is where I came in so I am going to leave this part of the Conversation.

Ian and Beryl, I was being facetious. 🙂 I shouldn’t have bothered.

Yes, but any credit is due to Ofgem, not HMG, although one can never rule out a bit of arm twisting to get a quick result that puts ticks in a number of boxes.

There has always been a degree of risk with fixed-price tariffs, especially with a commodity like energy which is subject to so many external and global influences where the prices are highly susceptible to volatility. Just predicting demand is difficult enough without factoring in procurement difficulties that require extensive hedging. The bigger companies have been able to offer fixed-price tariffs because they can buy much further ahead, have their own energy sources or production capacity to underpin their pricing structure, offer a spread of tariffs that offset risks in one element, and are big enough to accommodate wholesale market fluctuations. For the reasons that have been advanced here many times, I would like to see fixed-price tariffs abolished leading to more genuine and equitable competition. Good regulation of the suppliers would still be essential to ensure that when wholesale prices fell the benefit was quickly passed on to consumers.

Thanks John.

I should have added that it is not in consumers’ interests to have energy suppliers in such a precarious position that they are teetering on the brink of viability. Some consolidation of the more vulnerable suppliers might start to occur as the pressures on them increase; if it could be done in an orderly way instead of being picked off by the Big Six that would be better. Cultivating a competitive market without allowing the big firms to dominate and dictate is the challenge facing Ofgem.

My suggestion has been to abandon fixed price tariffs and make standard variable tariffs the norm. The subsidy from SVTs to support fixed contracts would then disappear – SVTs should then reduce in cost. However, do not believe the misinformation from Which? and others that consumers will all save £330 a year – £1.6 billion a year. Those savings apply only when some move from SVTs to fixed. If everyone moves don’t kid yourselves that the industry will give up that £1.6 billion. Prices will settle to those which provide an acceptable profit margin that will sustain these businesses.

What will happen to the very many small suppliers? I guess many are short term entrepreneurs who, while wholesale prices stayed low, could temporarily undercut the bigger players (who buy forward). The owners – who simply buy and sell – will have made their money, liquidate their companies or merge with a bigger rival, make staff redundant and find another way to make money without constructive investment.

I’m in a cynical mood today 🙁

I agree with you Beryl. Removing a whole layer of complex tariff differentials across the market would make selecting a supplier more transparent and straightforward.

Your closing point reinforces the need for a tight regulatory regime.

I suspect many people joined GB Energy on their fixed price contracts – when you search for lowest prices that is where you’ll invariably end up. So rising wholesale prices mean they can no longer service those contracts at a profit. And, of course, GB could not increase those prices for existing customers – that is the basis of the contract. So at some point the business model fails.

As I said elsewhere my guess is entrepreneurs are trying to make money in the short term and are prepared to terminate their businesses when things change.

I would dispute the idea that people who get lower prices then deliberately use more energy. How do they do this – wash more clothes, open all the windows, turn up the heating? The vast majority will want to use lower prices to save money. My own usage does not change, whatever my tariff. The way I use the heating, cook, wash, fridge, tv, vacuuming, are not activities that are likely to vary, other than with the weather.

One reason I doubt smart meters will have any real impact, once any novelty might have worn off. If 60% of people stick with variable tariffs, despite knowing they could pay significantly less, are they likely to sit down in front of their smart meter to analyse just how they use their energy and how they might make savings?

Malcolm, the point I was making in my previous comment was that GB failed to anticipate the price increases just around the corner. Was this because they were hoping to attract more customers with lower prices they couldn’t meet? Not very good business practice in any event.

My second point was to explain reasons why in your comment you state “do not believe the misinformation from Which? and others that consumers will all save £330 pounds – £1.6 million a year.” I am pretty sure that no one would deliberately use more energy intentionally, but someone during this sudden cold spell for example, maybe tempted to turn up the temperature a few degrees if they were on a fixed rate tariff as opposed to a variable rate in the misguided belief that they won’t be charged more. They are charged on the amount they use. It’s human nature to want to buy more if it costs less.

If you log onto OVO at the website address below, this may explain the wisdom of anticipating energy price increases so as not to lure prospective new customers into believing they are getting a cheaper tariff.

I sincerely hope the cynical mood improves as the day passes 🙂

Ah ha ! David , intuition made me check up on “Green Star ” the nice friendly” UK faces are not all it seems strip off TWO layers and it is a subsidiary of “Just Energy ” group (trademark ) USA . This is exactly what I am getting at when I criticise US globalisation of THIS country , to many boos ! of course , but I will not stop alegitimate point like this when it affects UK citizens adversely . Well I am right just checked on its US share info its a US globalisation company -they actually are proud of it ( from a US point of view ) Well dig deep enough and the Truth comes out I have a very large number of complaints from US citizens on the BAD treatment by Just energy in the States and because I know there are many “Stars+Stripers ” in the UK thinking I “hate ” the USA ( WRONG !! ) because I criticise it ( shows the level of thought) I have downloaded the list from Just Energies OWN complaints website . including – I told them I was leaving them and they said —you don’t really mean it SO— we will continue to bill you –and they did. Sounds like another big US company that I criticise and many of the BRitish public do as well– trying to stop you leaving them by months of obstruction and delay – while they sti;ll bill you and build up interest on the money THEY owe you . OKay ready to hear from those defenders of the “American Dream ” ( to the sound of the US National Anthem – hand on heart now )-we are all proxy Americans –you know ?