What bells and whistles do you want on kitchen appliances?

Wow! A washing machine with intelligent dual fill – just like I – and others – have been suggesting on the washerhep forum for years. It’s a pity it’s not a washer/dryer as space consideration preclude my having separate units.

But I will be writing to them to ask whether they intend to make one and furthermore, whether they have any plans for a dishwasher as well.

What’s the betting that, once these machines are introduced and pprove to meet a need, the other manufacturers will suddenly discover that, what do you know, dual fill is better after all!

You are absolutely right, Patsy. I assumed that the need to reprogram anything would be gone by the end of the 1980s, but it did not happen. We can name and shame manufacturers but it would be useful for Which? to look at this when testing appliances.

Appliances should consume no mains power when not in use. In the case of equipment that is activated by a timer (e.g. PVRs and DVD recorders) it is possible to store the power needed in an internal battery or capacitor.

Yes, we’ve written a Conversation about this topic before: Would you buy a TV without an on/off switch? https://conversation.which.co.uk/technology/tvs-on-standby-without-an-on-off-switch/

This is ideal for those who know what they are doing or are prepared to find out. I know people who have sophisticated central heating timers but make more use of the on/off switch. I do not know many people who customise their word processors and email clients to meet their needs.

Some heat their water in different ways according to season, and not just those with solar heating. Many use a single programme on their washing machine, irrespective of what they are washing and what sort of detergent they are using. There is only so much that fuzzy logic can do, and because of poor design, electronic controls can fail and mistakes in programming could introduce further problems.

I suggest that manufacturers choose useful default settings carefully, on the basis that most users may not change them. Having a display of those settings could encourage the user to customise their settings, but to avoid unnecessary service visits there should be a button to restore factory settings.

My hot & cold fill washing machine will be 30 next month and you might find me on your forum asking for advice.

I agree with Wavechange (and WhiteGoodsBlog and WashingMan). In particular, as one who is guilty of, but very satisfied with, using just 3 cycles on my washer for over 20 years, I recommend that machines should default to a 60 degree (or slightly hotter – my machine does 75 degrees), cottons cycle (otherwise known as “Fast Coloureds”), a 90 or 95 degree cotton wash (otherwise known as “Whites”) and a Woollens cycle that is woolmark approved, sometimes known as “Delicates” or “Hand wash”.

In a quarter of a century of doing my own washing, all but 18 months of that in just the one machine, I have never ever needed or wanted any of the other cycles on my 15 cycle, 1983 machine, and in the 18 months I did have to tolerate a modern machine a couple of years ago not only did I have to choose endless options every time I used it (though credit to it where it is due, it did default o a 60 degree cotton wash on start up …………just one that didn’t wash, didn’t rinse and took 3 hours!) but not one of the cycles on it actually did the essential job of a washing machine: wash an rinse the laundry.

The factory restore idea is also a great idea if we are to stick with modern, but more often than not unsatisfactory, electronic controls.

Wavechange and I have commented extensively about CFL’s and the fact that their inherent unreliability is almost certain;y down to the atrociously built and impossibly cheap electronics within them: most appliances suffer the same fate because manufacturer want profit. QUALITY electronics, WELL BUILT, and with some SENSIBLE default options should be absolutely indestructible. It can be done!

If the money was spent on the QUALITY rather than the QUANTITY of daft gizmo’s, we’d have outstanding products from every manufacturer.

Oh how I agree with you Andy! (Whitegoods help).

I really don’t understand why anyone would want these remaining time displays when they are so misleading.

I know that we’re never going to see a resurgence of electromechanical timers in appliances, but I can tell you almost to the minute when my washer will finish the cycle just by putting my hand under the hot tap before I start it (to see how hot the incoming water is) and knowing which cycle it is on. I’m never more than 5 minutes out even on a really bad day!

Even with electronic controls, a user who takes notice of what their appliance does can soon get a very good idea of timings, as you have said.

Certainly agree about looks and colours.

Miele are very upfront about boasting that their appliances are designed to last at least 20 years and as such come in plain white, without any fancy curves and bumps, so that they are timeless in appearance.

I rather suspect that simple, box-shaped, cabinets are probably stronger too, which is quite important if reliability, strength and longevity really are intended.

We have to cover several difference factors when choosing what brands to test, as we’re only able to test a certain number of products each time.
We generally try to reflect the market as much as possible, and ISE is a relatively small brand, but thanks for the feedback, and we’ll definitely look into this brand going forward.

This is the sort of small detail that an intelligent person can check when comparing appliances on display in shops. Well designed kitchen appliances will be easier to clean and not have dirt traps that make them old and tatty quickly. Some manufacturers worked out how to avoid print rubbing off over 50 years ago but modern designers sometimes do not think about simple practical matters.

Sadly, it is much more difficult to spot design flaws when buying from online retailers.

The intelligent program I suggested would have taken into account the various delay times imcumbent in re,ote hot water systems.

Simply build in a bypass that takes the initial hot water flow to the drain and only takes it into the machine for the first fill once it is hot enough. The simple way to arrange for the correct delay would be a user-controlled timer, which would need setting in accordance with the characteristics of the user’s plumbing system.

A more sohpisticated system would measure the incoming water temperature and divert it to the drain until it is warm enough. A default maximum delay setting would ensure that, should there be no hot water in the plumbing, the drain diversion would shut off after a reasonable period and the machine would then admit cold water to the drum and heat it as required.

This second system – surely easy enough to contrive with modern computerised controls – would mean that those of us who have solar heating (whose water temperature can vary from near freezing to near boiling) will not need to adjust the water admission delay.

In both systems the actual water temperature admitted to the drum would be controlled by a simple thermostat (similar to the one used is thermostatic showers) adjusted by the controller in accordance with the washing programme’s needs.

Any competent designer with engineering ability would easily be able to build an intelligent machine of the typer I describe – which rather makes me wonder who does design modern appliance? The marketing department, the accounts department, the sales department – or the engineering department?

Hoover machines used to do the spin on wash too. I would guess it was a marketing fad and now forgotten about. If it truly improved wash efficiency it can’t possibly have been discontinued at a time when wash efficiency has never been so much in the spotlight.

That would put a lot of load on the motor and with some detergents could cause foaming.

LOL. Just come back to this convo after a few months and read about the Zanussi Jet System.

I remember those and in fact I almost bought one once.

The cause of my opening “LOL!” is that the useless LG that I had for a short while used to cause an incredible amount of over-sudsing (as it called it) on every rinse and spin it did, so much so that soap suds poured out of the powder drawer on every wash and all over the floor. This was using proper Automatic detergents including barely half-doses of powder and also liquid capsules (so no chance of over-dosing by the user). When it rinsed very little foam was removed and each spin used to cause it to make a horrible noise as it “suds-locked”.

It occurs to me (hence the LOL!) that LG had re-invented the spin wash …. but made it happen all through the rinses too.

It was not me, but here are some possibilities:

– Increasing complexity could decrease reliability of washing machines, which are among the least reliable domestic appliances. That could mean higher costs for repair/replacement.

– Water supply is short in the summer in certain areas. I presume the reason that modern machines are not good at rinsing is because of pressure on manufacturers to cut down water use.

– A washing machine is unlikely to be sufficiently intelligent to know the cost of heating water externally (which could be free for those with solar panels to more expensive if fed from a tank heated by an immersion heater).

– Someone clicked thumbs down rather than thumbs up. 🙂

I would like to think that manufacturers do trawl discussion forums looking for inspiration.