Energy saving light bulbs – turned off by slow light-up times?

How much light do you need to go for a pee? I’ve got one of the freebe CFLs in our smallest room, and at 7W it’s probably brighter than actually needed, but is still 1/5 of the cost to run than the standard 40W Tungsten that I took out.

Although at first on, it’s probably only equivalent to a 40W, before getting to it’s full 60W equivalency; exactly how bright do you need it?!

Or, put another way, if you’re in the ‘reading’ room for more than a minute, the CFL is nearly up to full brightness; perfect for that monthly computer mag…

I am being very polite when I say that you have managed to get every single point in your post WRONG! First of all its “stanjackos” not “stanjacos” (You need better glasses). Secondly, the comment which refers to using wooden tools and candles went straight over your head. It was a a sarcastic comment refering to the fact that nearly everything in the modern house can be harmfull to your health in a cumulative way (even microwaves), ergo, anybody who worries about the minute danger posed by CFLs are paranoid and should eliminate everything that contains hazardous materials or functions. It was an hypothetical comment that I assumed anybody with more than 2 brain cells would understand. Obviously I was wrong. Thirdly, you are totally incorrect when you say that the Russians banned Microwaves 40 years ago, Micowaves were indeed banned in 1976 (35 Years ago) on information based on flawed research. This ban was lifted after Perestroika in the late 80′s and microwaves are now widely used in Russia.

Finally, candles are not dangerous, they are inert cylinders of parrafin wax with a vegatable based wick. It is the careless and foolhardy that cause problems not the candles.

I’ll try and take up that one; I don’t work for an LED company! Let’s make this one difficult for the LEDs while we’re at it; don’t want to be accused of swaying the figures like an advertiser!

Firstly, I think your prices are a little harsh with the LEDs a (ours were £10) and £1 for a GU10 50W a little cheap, but i’ll use your figures anyway (you may buy in bulk).

50,000 hours for an LED is also going some. So let’s call it 20,000 in the real on/off world. And 1000 hours is half of the length of hours that I saw advertised on the Halogens I used to buy, even though they never used to last a year, but I’ll use 2000 hours to make it a challenge (let’s see who still complains!)

Right off the bat the LEDs last 10 times longer than the ‘equivalent’ Halogens, leaving you with £4 to find before making a saving on by buying a £14 LED.

Then at 12p per KWh of leccy over 20000 hours you get:
LED – 20000h x 7W = 140KWh x 12p = £16.80 over it’s life.
Halogen – 20000 x 50W = 1000KWh x 12p = £120 over 10 lives…

…Crikey!

And how many of these horrible things did you say you had!?

Now the biggest hassle for LEDs is that you can’t easily dim them, but at a cost of about £40 a light with the correct fitting, you can, and with a good wide beam, 2700K Warm White none flicker LEDs, fitted by a professional, and doing your bit for the environment withought sacrificing style.

Win, win, win!

Come on Tytlas, enter the real world of the bog standard user. All they want is a decent light at the cost of pence………not £s, and cost effective, statistical analysis.

OK – buy a £14 LED 7W GU10 and it’ll save you £100 over it’s life, at least.

How’s that?

I smile. I have the intelligence and financial ability to understand you. You fail to grasp that you have to carry everyone with you. They yearn for the day when they (and me) could go and buy a pack of 3 pearl or plain for under £1 which would last them (and me) for years, whilst providing excellent, instant light. When the bankers and politicians have cost us (especially savers) billions £s does anyone really consider it worthwhile to save £100 ‘over its life’?
And what about the missiles they are throwing around like confetti in Syria…..Cruise ships, space rocket launches, growing world population, depleting resources. …..
Oh dear, much more important things to worry about if you wish to save the planet !

In my last post for ‘Syria’ read ‘Libya’

Gidster asked a question and I hope I answered it, but I am sorry if I failed to grasp that I was supposed to bring about world peace as well. Don’t worry, I’ll do better next time… 😉

I take your points on board tytalus so no intention to offend.
World peace would be wonderful but I was trying (unsuccessfully) to draw a comparison between the cost, use, and damage to the environment caused by light bulbs, and the cost and damage to the environment caused by the major political powers and businesses, with little or no comment. I feel that the ordinary citizen is being burdened with all the responsibility whilst governments and business continue with impunity and without comment. Rest assured, whilst I am not convinced about ‘energy saving’ bulbs, I have no car or television and enjoy wild camping and life in the mountains. A wonderful ‘carbon saving’ life.

Tytalus’ stat’s are good and don’t disagree with them, however I do disagree with eth life of LED lamps as stated by the manufacturers and web sites such as Which?.

I have had 2 GU10 LED lamps and they both failed partially (some of the leds still functioning) or tiotally within less than 250 hours of use.

I won’t buy any more.

LEDs suffer the same issue as everything else: they are not all created equal and you get what you pay for.

Our 2 Philips GU10s have been going for a couple of years now (1000+ hours?). They are the triple LED ones, and I’ve have bought more if it wasn’t for their narrow beam. 25deg is not standard, no matter what it says on their box; all the normal halogen bulbs i’ve seen are more like 36 degs. Going to show that even a big manufacturer stretches the truth at times… 😉

Both LED and quartz halogen bulbs last much longer if left running continuously. Repeated off/on cycling reduces their life due to “thermal shock”. I have two 2W LED bulbs in a kitchen display cabinet which provide sufficient light to make a cuppa by and are left to run continuously. They have been doing this for the last 5 years at least. I think we should be treated like adults and be allowed to choose our own bulbs according to use.

Agreed, one must not quibble about paying a lot more £s for products which are of such excellent design and quality.

There’s always going to be issues with new stuff, especially for early adopters: up front high costs, unknown problems, flakey technology and the biggy, Change.

I feel that we are still at the early adoption stage with LEDs, so I fully understand and respect your view. However, my wife and I are techies in every sense of the word, including trying such things out, hence why so many of my posts as, if it’s hard for us, we really need Which to do more reports on CFLs and LEDs so that we can all make informed choices without losing money.

Even when you introduce change over time, as with CFLs that we’ve been getting for 10+ years, losing the option to use an alternative feels like an imposition too far. And, of course, there will always be doubters, as it was with the change from Gas to Electric light, horse to car, land-line to Mobile phone. I’m therefore heartened that you’re keeping an open mind and just biding your time! 🙂

It’s not so much the time it takes for the lights to fail, though it does help. The main factor is the power used: my mum’s kitchen had almost 1kW of 50W GU10s, and she spent several hours in there a day. Being Manchester it was often overcast during the day, so the things were never off.

You can’t convince me that this is just a few Watts: it’s hundreds of pounds per year for mostly little gain; leave heating to the radiators and light to something more efficient. Oh, there is also the issue of the environment, but that’s another discussion…

Look for the brightness, which is quoted in lumens.

An old fashioned 60 watt bulb produces around 700 lumens and a 100 watt bulb produces around 1300 lumens.

Assuming that you are looking at compact fluorescent lamps, it is probably best to choose a bulb that is a little brighter than you need. The running costs are much less than for the old bulbs.

I too have started using a number of LEDs in my house. I’m happy with the lighting appearance and low energy usage.
However, I’m very disappointed with the high levels of radio frequency interference (rfi).
My FM radio hisses when these lights are switched on. So it’s either listen to the radio in the dark or have the lights on in silence. Fine for ‘book at bedtime’ though.
I can’t see how these lamps can have a ‘VALID’ CE Mark and still give out high rfi.
I bought these lamps from a national electrical wholesaler and am waiting for their comments.
Perhaps a good subject for WHICH to investigate since I can’t afford to have the lamps tested myself. There does not seem to be any monitoring of the validity of the CE mark or more importantly the testing which should support it.
Bring back the ‘kite’ mark?

I do not know if Which? looks at rfi when testing LED and CFL lamps. If there is a significant difference between brands then it would obviously be useful to have this information. It’s not just the airwaves, but mains-borne interference that we have to cope with, and many modern products generate interference.

In the same way that astronomers have to live with light pollution, I believe the best solution is to use a roof or loft radio aerial and this should eliminate interference problems. Not many would think of using a TV from an internal aerial.

Some find Internet radio and wireless broadband a good solution for use with portables, but I guess you would not like to go down this route. 🙂

Wavechange – Thanks for your comments.
As part of the renovation project I have installed various data and av cables around the house. It’s the potential interference with these that concerns me most. The problem with the radio will be temporary since I hope soon to install a sat. dish & tv/dab aerial (in the garden to avoid masking of sat. & tv mast by trees.
Another issue which could be making the situation worse for internal aerials is Kingspan type insulation with foil backing in the roof.

I agree with your comment on mains-borne interference also being an issue. It is the RFI created by the lamps which is transmitted onto the lighting mains, which is then radiated from the lighting/mains cables into the airwaves. Some interference may also enter the mains network.

I believe that the future of lighting will be LED’s.
The problem I see right now is that cheap LED’s, without filtering of the power supplies, will flood the market because customers will naturally buy the cheaper product.
Without policing of the EU reg.s & international standards the consumers have no protection.

I agree on the importance of standards for LED lighting. Poor quality has been a problem with CFLs and we don’t need a repeat of this. Apart from RFI, standards should cover safety, longevity and efficiency.

Best of luck with the radio reception.

LED lighting is increasingly used for aquaria. As with older fluorescent lighting, there is not a huge amount of competition, so prices are high. LED lighting should be safer because mains voltage can be kept well away from water. If it’s well designed it should work without significant loss of light output for many years. Look for long warranties because ordinary domestic LED lamps sometimes fail prematurely.

It’s well worth understanding the terms ‘colour temperature’ and ‘colour rendition index’, which manufacturers of aquarium lighting are likely to mention in their advertising.