What do you expect from your energy provider?

I would like see unit conversions banned. They only exist to confuse us.

What is wrong with a price for actual units used as they appear on our meters?

That’s fine with electricity, which record consumption in kWh but gas meters record consumption in cubic metres. There is also a conversion factor called the ‘calorific value’ which is used to compensate for possible differences in how much energy is supplied by each cubic metre.

Thanks to metrication we no longer have to cope with the ‘therm’, which is 100,000 British thermal units.

With gas, the calorific value(energy in a given volume of gas) may vary, so simply using the number of cubic meters used (what your meter records) does not tell you the amount of energy (units, kWh) that you have used. It is the energy that matters. So your bill tells you how the volume of gas is converted into energy units. I imagine smart meters should automatically do this calculation using current calorific value from your energy supplier. We don’t have one.

Wait until you are charged half hourly for energy – the rates will vary depending on the time of day, based on demand. How will you work that out? Only using a smart meter – the only real justification I can see for having one.

🤔 If I wasn’t confused before malcolm………. 🙃

So how do they know which figures vary?

My new smart meter display shows the cumulative charges for gas, electricity and both during the day and the figures include the standing charge. There is also a record for the past week, past month and past year. The previous one provided less information and did not take into account the standing charges or display the current meter readings.

Anyone who believes that it is more economical to leave the heating on all the time rather than switching it off at night would benefit from having smart meters.

Apart from the enormous cost of the smart meter roll out, smart meters may lose their functionality if you swap supplier. Mine were replaced a few months ago and I was told they met the new standard but I understand that potentially incompatible smart meters are still being installed because there is a stock of them. Never mind – all the costs will be shared by customers, even those who cannot afford to heat their homes properly. 🙁

I think whether leaving the heating on all the time is beneficial, depends on your property.

For us, it used to work out cheaper to leave it on 24/7 and we didn’t freeze for hours while the place heated up.

But now with a lot of home improvements, it is fine to turn the thermostat down at night and our gas bill is considerably less. The heating will only kick in at night if it gets really cold.

I turn down the thermostat at night too. Sometimes it comes on and sometimes it doesn’t, depending on outside temperature. Where I have left it at daytime temperature overnight, less gas is used the following morning but the overall daily consumption is significantly higher.

It was interesting to see how much the consumption of gas varied during the ten days when I was away over Christmas, when the heating was on low.

The calorific value of gas can vary a little. It is usually near 39.1, but the conversion is there to ensure you pay for actual energy, not just volume of gas. You suppliers bill will still show how many units (kWh) of gas you have been charged for. But, if you want to use a meter reading yourself to work out how much you’ve been using you’ll need to multiply your usage, in cubic meters – what the meter records – since last time by around 11 to convert into units ( kWh).

Remember that converting gas to kWh does not give you a like-for like comparison with electricity costs for heating purposes – unlike electricity, gas is not 100% efficient.

Not only are gas boilers not 100% efficient but a substantial amount of heat is lost pumping hot water round a house. Nevertheless, gas remains a cheaper way of heating than electricity, even using storage radiators running on cheaper electricity.

Oh I agree, gas will always be cheaper than off-peak electricity. Not sure how much you actually lose pumping hot water around, after all it’s hot and in the house, but maybe not in the place you want it. Insulating the pipes helps.

Unfortunately there is not much chance of insulating pipes where they run through walls, as mine do, though I was able to insulate all the pipes in the loft when I lived in a bungalow. Our energy providers could help by referring customers to a decent source of information about how to save fuel. We don’t need them to reinvent the wheel by producing their own information.

A lot depends upon how you route your pipes. My heating pipes are all, virtually, within the rooms, hidden by boxed skirting, so contribute to the heating . Where they run in the loft they are insulated with foam sleeves.

In my previous bungalow which had a solid floor the pipes ran in the loft and I insulated them with thick foam sleeves. In my present home the pipes disappear into the walls, which is neat but presumably loses heat. I have cavity wall insulation and presumably this helps to retain heat in the pipes.

They don’t take into account collective switching schemes either.

Which of Ofgem’s rules has given you this result, william?

If you’re within 12 months of your current fix ending, the savings quoted are allowed to assume the fictitious scenario that you’ll roll over onto the standard variable rate (SVR). So imagine you’re paying £100 a month compared to £120 if you’re on the SVR and you look at switching at month 11 in your 1 year fix, and the new company will be charging you £110 a month, so the’re allowed to quote you a saving of £100. ( that’s £10 down in the 1st month (100-110), but £110 up for the remaining 11 months (120-110) * 11.
So they quote £100 saving yet you’re actually paying more. I’d rather they use the fictitious scenario that I’ll stay on my £100 a month to show £120 loss over the year or at the very least show both scenarios. So OFGEMs rules are allowing companies to keep prices high whilst pulling the wool over consumers eyes.

When I changed my energy supplier I compared prices with a well known switching service and this showed some very substantial savings that could be made by moving to a variety of other suppliers. Switching supplier from on fixed contract to another made very little difference – as I had expected. I’ve now thrown away the printout showing the list of what appeared to be fictitious savings.

I only became aware of this “scam” when I got a bill from my then current supplier suggesting I could save £127.83 by switching and when I rang and got the standing charges and unit prices all were higher than what I was already paying. So call me old fashioned, but not actually a saving.

Perhaps it might be worth reporting the scam to the Advertising Standards Authority.

Having reported many ads/scams to the ASA in the past, I can tell you what their reply will be. “This isn’t something we deal will with.” They’re a complete waste of time and money.

I thought you might say that, William. I presume that the narrow remit of the ASA is being exploited.

William, as this is not an advertising issue it would not fall within the remit of the ASA, in my view. It would be an Ofgem issue. You could report it to them.

If you have a fixed price contract, I don’t know why there is any real need to know what your savings might be up to 12 months before it ends. When mine was drawing to a close the default was to assume you would be placed on a standard variable tariff. My supplier told me what this would cost and also gave me the estimate if I moved to their cheapest fixed term tariff. That seemed reasonable.

Personally, I would abolish all subsidised fixed term tariffs and apply the savings to standard variable tariffs.. By all means have fixed price fixed term tariffs but have them stand on their own feet as regards profitability.

I check my tariffs each year using Which?Switch to decide not only whether to move tariff, but supplier also. Looking at your own bill only will not tell you what other suppliers offer. A small amount of effort could be very rewarding, but it seems many people do not think saving 1 or 2 hundred pounds is worth the bother.

I think you misread my example. It’s projected savings after my fix ends that I feel are wholly misleading.

And I too use which switch and then a cashback site if cashback is on offer.
As to your last point I have 2 elderly neighbours who I’ve been trying to switch for ages, both are on SVRs and both refuse to believe they’re be paying too much. Ah the trusting elderly generation.

Thanks william. It is difficult to understand sometimes why people don’t take advantage of savings, but attitudes to change and its benefits vary.

It comes from different sources – wind, solar, gas, nuclear, hydro……different companies buy it in different mixes with different costs. You pay both for the energy (around 38% of an average dual fuel bill) and 26% for network costs.

Knowing of the problems with Iresa I wonder how the company looked better than the likes of Npower and and some other companies: https://switch.which.co.uk/energy-suppliers/energy-companies-rated.html `Some of the largest companies need to pull their socks up.