Jumpers instead of heating – how you’re cutting back this winter

One piece of advice, when using switching websites, including the one operated by Which. When they ask you for your current usage, always, if at all possible, enter your usage in Kwh, rather than in £, and enter the usage for the most recent FULL YEAR, for which you have bills. Whilst it is possible to enter to enter your use from just the last bill, and do it in pounds, it inevitably produces much less accurate results. You are likely to find yourself on an unrealistic payment schedule, or even with the WRONG supplier.

Good point Malcolm, and if you have an online account previous bills should be readily accessible. If you have not kept paper copies of bills a call to your energy supplier will provide the information needed.

Another thing to consider is whether your use is likely to be higher or lower for any reason. For example, anyone retiring is likely to start using a lot more energy for heating if they will be at home most days.

You mention a heater, but don’t say what type. If it’s not a Quartz Halogen one, invest in one! They are really cheap, usually less than £20. They tend to have a rating of 300W to 900W, or 400W to 1200W, which means they have a running cost (assuming you are on a sensible tariff) of between 4p and 18p, per hour, depending on which you have, and how many elements you have on (there are normally 3). The great advantage with them is that they are virtually 100% radiant. They don’t rely on heating the air, just the objects, and people, at which they are pointed, so provide maximum heat, almost instantaneously. I wouldn’t pretend they will make a room “cosy”, but they are the cheapest way to provide, at least, some standard of comfort!

I agree with your comments. The arguement that everyone would be heating a cylinder of water, just to do washing, is a total red herring. Firstly, no-one in their right mind, heats a cylinder-full of hot water JUST to do a machine wash, plus, a high proportion of hot water systems are via “combis”, where the arguement doesn’t apply. There is an issue with the amount of cold water, drawn from the hot water pipes, before hot water arrives, but there are ways round that. Presumably H & C fill machines, still have an element to heat the water, if the “hot” fill isn’t hot enough. I presume that the manufacturers think we Brits are too thick to use H & C machines. Obviously, they think the Germans are more intelligent than us. Isn’t that RACIST!!!

@Hannah – yes, you are right, but as energy prices spiral higher and as people’s budgets shrink, it is an ever more important issue. And it is directly *related* to the question because for people with cold fill only machines one way to save energy might be to replace it with one that takes hot water, only they can’t in the current market.

It would be very good if Which? could take this issue up and try to get us some answers and, more importantly some changes, whether or not a convo about it comes into being.

Unless and until we get dual-fill machines, people might consider doing what I do.
Dishwasher, clothes-washer and tumbler-dryer are all on time-clocks, and use economy-7 electricity. In fact my dishwasher, which is a German Bosch, has a built-in time-clock.

My immersion heater is also on economy-7, and has 9 inches of insulation packed in around it inside its cupboard. Long pipe-runs do unfortunately waste a good deal of hot water, but all in my electricity bill is around £700, including 10 hours a day on the computer, and all my heating.

I have storage heaters in every room, but nowadays rely instead on quartz radiant fires since I work in the conservatory all day, and just visit the living room for a couple of hours in the evening. A radiant fire under my desk, directly on my legs, allows me to work at 12C, and after a couple of hours brings the temperature around my desk up to 18C. Twenty minutes on two bars in the living room before eating raises the temperature from 15C to 18C and keeps me very comfortable when aimed at my legs. Storage heaters are on in just the bathroom and kitchen, at very low input levels. I have an oil-filled electric radiator on a time-clock next to my bed, and use a fan-heater whilst undressing, and a 40W underblanket to warm the bed.

I still manage to have about 40% of my usage on the cheaper night rate.
I am thinking about getting an air-to-air heat pump for the living room next year, when I am advised that there may be grants available. A problem here is that they ideally need an outside temperature >5C, and this occurs only in the afternoon. My next-door neighbour has a tariff that gives him cheap electricity for 2 hours in the late afternoon, ideal for a heat-pump, but only one company does that locally. Something that Which should be looking at, I think, as heat-pumps become more popular.

What’s all the fuss about using domestic hot water for washing machines? And in particular, why the conspiracy theory that UK is the “only” country not to have them? In Spain cold-fill only has been standard for many years. In any case (as I have remarked in a previous post) it must surely be more efficient to heat the water at point of use and not waste it heating cold pipes and pushing cold water into the machine. Or does everybody else have solar hot water and get it free? As for the suggestion that you use hot water fill only, I am dumbfounded. Are we meant to believe that using hot water for rinsing is more efficient than heating cold water for washing???

@Erik99.
Interesting you should mention hot water for rinsing: the dreadful LG machine I briefly had heated up cold water for rinsing on certain cycles on the basis that it was supposedly more effective than using just cold water. Undoubtedly this is partly why as a cold fill machine it cost more than 4 times as much to run as older hot and cold fill machines. To be fair to LG though, some Miele machines also have a warm rinse cycle so it wasn’t just a crazy LG idea.
As for Spain, I think you may find that the latest position from Spain is rather different from how it was a decade or more ago, at the time when manufacturers were trying to convince us that we, the UK, were the only country in the EU not using cold fill only washers. The tables have turned and it seems as if we are now very much in danger of being, if we are not already, the only country left in the EU using cold fill only. Current Spanish building regs certainly promote the use of hot water for washers according to research done for the other site that Richard English referred us to.

Whilst I agree that most electric heaters (night storage heaters are a special case) have a theoretical thermal efficiency close to 100%, they all use that efficiency in different ways. Because quartz halogen heaters deliver most of their heat (over 90%, compared with around 65% for a resistive element radiant heater, and virtually zero% for a fan heater) as radiant heat, they are significantly more effective for “spot” heating. They are significantly cheaper to run, to heat a specific area, than any other type of electric heaters, which use much of their output, trying to heat the whole room.

Yes. Whilst we all moan about gas and electric price rises, oil price rises have been even worse. I would, however, make the point that many measures, which are still not necessarily viable when compared against gas, must now be more viable, when compared with oil. I do not profess to be any sort of expert on renewables, but they, I presume, together with some of the more sophisticated “intelligent” control systems, are now worth consideration. There is plenty of advice, out there, even if often difficult to find!! Start with the energy links on directgov. Also, there are lots of grants and assistance, even if even more difficult to find.

The price of heating oil is astronomical, but so is the cost of coal and other solid fuels, used by many who live in rural areas, where there is no gas main. An 86 year old neighbour, whom we help, is paying £46.50 per fortnight for his open fire, which heats a few radiators,moderately. We could use LPG, which seems to be about twice the cost of mains gas. Comparing electricity cost, I pay more than people who live in a city. I have tried comparing prices in this way, putting in city postcodes, as well as my own. (Sad!) We very rarely put on the central heating. It is 17 degrees here where I am sitting, with no heating. We are used to it and just put on more jumpers and fleeces.

There are a couple of cost saving measures, specific to oil fired heating, which can be worth exploring.
It is, generally, much cheaper to buy heating oil, in bulk, in the summer, rather than to have several, small top-ups, in the depths of the winter. This is particulary true of remote, rural locations. By increasing one’s storage capacity (a bigger, or additional, tank), it is possible to substantally reduce annual costs.
Smaller, and cheaper, oil boilers, tend to only be suitable for used with one type of heating oil. I apologise, if some of my information is out of date, since I retired, but some larger, and better quality boilers, were often capable of operation, on cheaper oil grades, with only minor modification, or even re-adjustment, with little, or no loss of efficiency. One would need to check with one’s service engineer, or boiler manufacturer, on the suitability of any given boiler.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE!

My heating has never been set over 15 degrees since I first moved in 25 years ago.
Admittedly I do not use the gas fire more often than I used to (though usually INSTEAD of the heating when it’s not particularly cold).

Well said Valerie.

This is interesting. I searched Amazon, could not find “heated stow” but got
Dreamland Relaxwell Luxury Personal Size Micro Fleece Heated Throw at £34. But they do make it sound as though it is intended for a bed, and they warn you not to crumple it.

On another product, priced at £39, they say ” It can also be used as a normal blanket and can be draped around you when you are lounging on the sofa.”

A better source, supplied on Amazon, might be
http://www.hygienesuppliesdirect.com/products/prod151859

I guess that the ones that can be draped over you will have some sort of metalised coating over the outside of the heater insulation, allowing earthing to protect against insulation erosion and cracking.

I searched the Which website, where they discuss electric bed-blankets but not throws. These might pose problems for anyone who is incontinent, and I suppose you could spill your tea or coffee over them whilst sitting in a chair. So the extra earthing would be important. Can you advise, please, Which?
An alternative solution might be a heated cushion to put your feet onto, with a normal blanket to drape over your legs.

Earlier in the year, I did ask Which? if they could assess these throws alongside electric blankets, as there is more than one brand. At the time they had no plans to do so, but it’s something they may do in the future.
I have one at home, and one on my narrow boat. If you ‘google’ heated throws, it’ll come up with more than one make – I bought mine in 2009 from e-bay (new product). The one(s) I have, have 9 heat levels and an automatic timer, so you can choose how long you have the heat on for. The throw is long enough to cuddle in to/under and, honestly, I have never had mine on higher than the level 2 heat. Apart from the obvious additional heat in the winter, it’s brilliant for those times of the year when it gets chilly and you want a little ‘something’ to warm you. I had a ‘Slanket’ in use, before buying these, but do prefer the heat element of the throw.
From a H & S point of view, the instructions do warn not to wrap the throw around you, or to crease it but there must be some sort of protection there, as they are machine washable.
On another cost saver, I use my One Cup electric kettle – really good if you live along and don’t want to boil more water than needed – quick, too!

Yes. I didn’t have central heating, til the early 1970’s. Before that, we used to mainly use one room, with a coal fire. One had a hot water, for bed, or, if one could afford such luxuries, an electric blanket. As a nation, we have become too “soft”, and regard automatic heating as a “human right”. Yes, it is a scandal that some people cannot afford heating that they NEED, but high energy prices are not a completely bad thing. Were it not for high prices, does anyone think that the majority of people would be thinking, far less discussing it. NO, most of us would still be pumping out ever increasing amounts of greenhouse gases, on the basis of “not my problem”

Cavity Wall Insulation (CWI) certainly has it’s place, but as a convo specifically on that topic, and a Which? investigation earlier this year, both discovered and highlighted, there are many cowboy installers out there (mainly, it seems, doing the subsidised installs for the energy companies). If you are unlucky and get a cowboy job, or if you have it installed in a house which is NOT suitable, you can end up not only with no benefit but also with horrendous structural problems.

My house is not suitable, according to several installers and a couple of independent builders, but CWI installed well in a suitable property is doubtless advantageous.

It should be appreciated that the effectiveness of cavity wall insulation is heavilly dependant on the length of time for which the heating is on. This may sound obvious, but it is not as simple as, if one has the heating on for twice as long, the CWI will save twice as much.
When the heating is switched on, in a cold building, there is no heat loss THROUGH the walls For a considerable, initial period, all heat which is passed from the air, in the building, as that heats up, to the walls, is ABSORBED by the material of the inner wall, rather than passing through it. It takes a considerable time (often hours), before any appreciable heat reaches the cavity, for the CWI to start doing any good. If it is time for the heating to turn off, again, before much heat has passed THROUGH the wall, the CWI never gets the CHANCE to do much good.
The result of this is that, if heating is only used for an occassional 2 hour burst, CWI will acheive very little benefit. If, however, heating is on for several hours, CWI does “come into its own”. Performance figures for CWI are based on “steady state conditions”, ie when heating up of the walls is complete. Performance, during heat up, will be much lower.

@ Malcolm Fry – that’s very useful and interesting info: I had no idea at all about this aspect of CWI. I may be wrong but I don’t recollect this being mentioned in the Which? report / investigation either.

@ Hannah – thanks for the link: I’m afraid that yesterday I couldn’t be bothered to search around to find it!

Malcolm Fry,

That’s interesting and had not occurred to me. Probably that is another argument for quartz radiant fires, since they heat up the person and not the air, so do not transfer as much heat to the inside of the brickwork. However, a family would really need two operating, to cover everybody. The heat stored in the inner leaf of bricks still has to dissipate overnight through the cavity insulation, and that should raise the time-averaged temperature of the inner brickwork, even if a room is heated only occasionally. The figures below suggest this.

My quartz fire (800W) got my living room air-temperature up to 20C last night after 3 hours (35p. a night), and it was 19.5C when I went to bed three hours later. This morning, before I let any sunlight in, it was still 18.5C. That is a miniscule drop overnight. Outside temperature last night was 10C, and is 13C this morning.

So I am happy with my CWI, but have tested it only using my quartz fire. Two years ago, before I added all the insulation, I used a 24KWH storage heater (£1-20p a night), and that failed to keep the room comfortable by the evening. I did install a 6foot drain-pipe with a 4 inch fan in the top end, in one corner of the room, to pull down the warmed air, and this did give rise to a 3C rise in some parts of the room, but not in the area where I was seated. Maybe a conservatory fan in the centre might have worked better.

But for a single person living alone, the quartz radiant fire plus CWI, lined curtains everywhere and a blind on the window under the curtains, seems to be a very comfortable, cheap solution.

I would not mean to suugest the CWI will save NO energy, if heating is intermittant. Even with intermittant heating, some heat will be stored in the walls, which will continue to dissipate, when the heating is switched off. It should be noted that it will, in fact, dissipate in both directs; towards the cavity, AND back into the room (if the inner skin of the wall is warm, it can act as a giant radiator, to help keep the air temperature up, with the heating off). The point is, however, that, with highly intermittant heating, one is likely not to get anything like the advertised energy saving, from CWI.

Attn: admin

My post of 26th Dec (8:04), was in response to Stephen Price’s of 23rd Dec. For some, unknown, reason, it permanent appears as the final item in the convo, irresespective of what else is posted. I don’t mind having the last word, but as it keeps being moved behind more recent posts, it loses all context.

A lot of problems have arisen, both with the setting of direct debit payments, and with the inaccuracy of estimated meter readings, since most of the energy suppliers have switched to 6 monthly billing. Managing one’s energy account, online, can help reduce estimated readings, but they still like to use estimated readings, when there is a price rise, and still only WANT meter readings, every 6 months. There is, however, nothing to stop one giving regular readings, even if they aven’t asked for them. I send my supplier an e-mail, every couple of months, or so, with my meter readings, requesting that they advise my current position. I’m sure they don’t like me doing that, but do so, and, at least, that way I don’t get bills that are a shock. I also have evidence of my usage, should there ever be a dispute.

This sounds to me somewhat like a commercial advertisement, or am I just being unduly cynical?

I don’t object to commercial advertisements, unless they are thought up by some overpaid ethic-deficient ad-executive who plays on my psychological weaknesses, rather than describing the merits of his particular product. I am sick to the back teeth of cars that turn into robots or mechanised centipedes, or drive through the set of Lord of the Rings with some fire-breathing monster chasing them. Its like a Golf but not a Golf, but what on earth is it like? A Golf is nothing to me, and inarticulate people who relate everything to a Golf, sure ain’t gonna sell me anything. This particular ad seems to discuss the real merits of the product, and I find that refreshing.
But I would welcome a url link to an independent assessment, please.

I would be concerned, admittedly some greater detail would be helpful, that this may be one of these magnetic/electrostatic “molecule organisers”, that seem to suddenly appear on the market, every ten years, or so, and disappear just as quickly. Inovative products are always welcome, provided their claims are verified, by someone one has actually heard of.

It used to be common to have the thermostat in the hall and many CH systems have been installed without a room thermostat. Sensibly installed thermostats can improve comfort and save money.

I defend those who fiddle with the thermostat. Perhaps they are the ones who realise that our need for heating does vary during the day.

I’m with Wavechange, but I do agree that British Gas in particular and many other heating installers too have a diabolical record of fitting the cheapest stats in the easiest place even if, as is often the case, that is the worst place in terms of operation. Many installers, and BG is certainly one, also fail to wire them safely, let alone to work correctly.

A properly wired electro-mechanical room stat, located in a sensible position, is every bit as effective as modern solid-state ones and, albeit infinitesimally small, the amount of electricity consumed by a modern solid state stat (mains type only) is greater than the zero consumption of an electromechanical one.

All that said, you cannot expect to “set and forget” a stat and still get the best economy and operation. If you could there would be no need for a user control on the stat.

I’m not sure about the “Valliant” (should that be Vaillant??) heating engineer’s advice to dispose of stats: since Vaillant (and as far as I know, pretty much all other) Boilers all come with a strong recommendation that a room ‘stat is fitted it seems a little odd.

In terms of heating controls and fuel economy fitting a modern programmer (timer) that allows very short switching periods and more than just one or two on/off cycles per day saves a huge amount of fuel. I would suggest that anyone thinking of spending money on updating controls looks first to the programmer and only worries about the stat if they either don’t have one at all (in which case fit one) or if they think it is incorrectly wired and / or not working properly (in which case get it looked at by a reputable independent heating engineer but NOT one of the boiler manufacturers’ or energy companies’ engineers who are likely to try to sell you a new system or many alterations that you don’t need and won’t save you money).

Thermostatic radiator valves should really have the temperature sensor well away from the source of heat but the only ones I have seen are combined with the control knob. Better than simple valves but not an ideal way of controlling temperature.

Electomechanical thermostats do actually consume a small amount of energy, producing a tiny amount of heat, within them. Most, decent stats, of this type, incorporate a small balancing circuit, to compensate for this. It does, however, require the provision of an extra wire, a neutral. The thermostat will still “work” without this, so guess what, probably 90% of stats have this un-connected.

And those stat’s installed by many contractors often DO have the Neutral connected, but contrary to all regulations and very dangerously they used the EARTH conductor of standard twin and earth cable rather than buy the correct 3 core and earth cable.

I’ve taken this up with BG in several installations, one of which they had even used flexible cord for rather than correct fixed wiring cable.

In all cases I have taken up BG have sent inspectors who have confirmed that the incorrect wiring has been installed, blamed their subcontractor and sent an electrician to correct the issue.

Going back to the heating side of this though, the current flow in an electromechanical ‘stat should be zero unless the stat is calling for heat. The tiny flow (usually through a neon indicator and resistor) is to provide switching hysteresis and promote positive switching to avoid sparking of the contacts, but it should only be operating when the ‘stat is calling for heat to assist in the switch OFF operation.

I have had to revise my opinion on the use of thermostatic valves. We were taught that, whilst a few thermostatic valves, on a system, could be beneficial, over-reliance on them could cause problems. As they shut down, the flow through the boiler could be reduced, and, in extremis, a boiler could be firing, with zero flow through it, and the pump, pumping against a “dead-end”. This could cause damage to both boiler and pump.
I understand, however, that the latest boilers can cope with this, by the use of automatic by-pass, and modulating burners. It should still be appreciated that older boilers are not necessarily this “forgiving”, and advice should be sought, before fitting too many thermostatic valves, to check that one’s boiler can cope.

It has been my experience with all systems I have been involved with, or aware of, that at least one radiator has no thermostatic valve, specifically to avoid the problem of pumping to nowhere. This of course means that you can’t just leave the boiler running with no room-stat.

Eric99
It certainly was common practice to do that, if one was generally installing thermostatic valves throughout. It was, if I recall, building regulations to fit a room stat, and good practice not to have t/s valves in the room stat location. I am not sure if that is still the case. It was also good practice not to have t/s valves, throughout, to avoid damage to boilers and pumps. If, as I understand it, modern boilers and pumps can cope with it, I can see the logic of fitting t/s valves to all radiators, although if done, I can see arguements, both for and against, having a room stat, as well. It would serve little purpose, except to ensure some idiots didn’t leave their boiler on “tick-over” all summer!

I do agree. I have very little hair at all.
I prefer Thinsulate hats that are washable without shrinking, and do not cut into the forehead.
They cost about £3 on the market or in Millet’s sale (if still on). They don’t blow off in the wind.
Warm socks are difficult to get. I recently bought a lot with 2-for-1 Tesco vouchers which were cheap, but not as good as the Coolmax cotton walking socks. These are available on Ebay for about £7-00p for two including postage. This is a bit expensive. I did manage to buy some on Wellesbourne market for £1-50p. each so maybe I might be lucky again.