Justin, my standing charge has remained at 21p a day for the last few years. I have asked Ofgem how they view a standing charge and which of the fixed costs (i. e. those not dependent upon consumption) should be included. Like you, I would like to see “rules” on the way standing charges are put together. Their view is they do not control this, but have left energy companies to decide how their tariffs are constructed. The standing charge can be zero, but you will pay more per unit because the costs have to be recovered somewhere; this will benefit low consumers. Or they can make a larger standing charge with a lower unit cost, appropriate to average and larger users. That gives a choice, and I am all in favour of choice.

I’ll come in a stir things up a little
We dont have standing charges where i am but we have expensive power
We are told that standing charges are there to cover billing etc as the meter man is the same for the OAPp as he is for a large factory and the same for the admin for sending out the bill

My point is that whether we consider these things as services or businesses has a lot to do with how we see this
Since privatisation I dont see them as services no more than a Tesco or Asda
Tesco does not have a admission charge at the door nor on the way out………..You wanna spend a load of money and throw it in the bin as many do feel free………….You pay to do that
Here our water has not been privatised as yet despite their best efforts
We have an allowance of “free water”………..Not sure what it is but its enough to cover a family and more
I regularly see people hosing down their driveways onto the road in summer………..Complete waste of good energy consuming resources……………
Everyone needs a water meter and everyone should contribute to the cause as such………….

I dont see why the pensioner should be charged the same as Michelin or Nissan……..The pensioners meter will be one in a long line down a street or road and at least 50% will be easy in the door out the door and the next one please
Whoever is not there gets and estimate
The same cannot be said of business many of which have security and many of which require a member of staff to accompany visitors and that requires waiting on……….
Then we have the big domestic user who has gates and security and only gets his meter read every few years and then argues about the reading being so high…………..I have a namesake who reads elec meters and he gets abuse about the high readings and near always from high users……This wastes time never mind the abuse………….

I am of the opinion that it is very simple………If you use it you pay for it…….If you are economical whether it be for monetary or tree hugger reasons you should not be fined for not using energy

I think the campaigning should be for an end to this silly standing charge……….We are about to enter and era of no meter man no office staff and we are given discounted for paying by DD or online…………….What’s the standing charge for………..The transmission lines and pipes are for everyone’s use equally we are told………
The heavier the loads the shorter the life
Water pipes wear out………The low water user does not contribute much to the wear
High energy users can and do cause a need to upgrade a line……….Is that the fault of the low user who is paying the same charge as the high user
Is the low user responsible for the need for a new interconnector,,,,,,no the low user would have been fine on the old connector………Its the wants of the high users that cause the expense…..

I’d do away with the standing charges except you’d probably be worse off not because you’d save as you should as ordinary domestic uses but because it would give an opportunity to BB to add on more than they really should to your per unit rate…..

You’ll not win with these energy suppliers……….simple

The standing charges I pay are the same for gas and electricity. With my previous supplier, the standing charges were the same for gas and electricity, but different from what my present supplier. To suggest that we are paying a standing charge for the fixed costs of energy supply is nonsense.

Until we get rid of standing charges, low users will continue to subsidise high users.

Wave you are 100% correct but we have no standing charges here and haven’t had for many years………
The reality is that whilst they removed the standing charge they simply loaded us even heavier……..
Yes remove the small user paying for the high user but it’ll need some policing because all the good will in the world did not work here

wavechange, please do not use “nonsense” for perfectly valid point. You may not agree with it, but you may not be totally right either. I have said before that there are some elements of an energy bill that are not dependent upon energy consumption. i have said they need to be agreed and used as a basis for a minimum standing charge. It is up to the energy company to decide whether its tariff should include a standing charge or not. Consumers can then choose the tariff that suits them best. You might disagree. for your own reasons, with the principle but that does not warrant condemning one person’s reasoned comment as “nonsense”.

I had not even read your point, Malcolm. DeeKay’s lengthy post reminded me that I had compared the tariffs of my current and previous energy supplier.

You pay, to the best of my knowledge, an amount via your energy supply company to the transmission companies for the use of the pipes and wires depending upon your consumption, On that basis no one is subsidising anyone. There is another charge for maintaining the security of supply. The energy companies seem to have discretion as to whether this in incorporated in the unit price, or in a standing charge. As we all are equally dependent upon this there is a case to be made for all consumers contributing equally. Around £38 in 2015 on an average dual fuel bill. However it seems to me it is just these kind of costs that need to be exposed, examined, and a decision made as to how they should be most fairly recovered.

In winter, switch to a High Standing Charge and Low Fuel tariff and in summer swap the other way, low Standing Charge and High Fuel tariff.

I’ve done this in previous years but not lately. Now I’m inclined towards a variable tariff and with a small supplier – GB Energy. They are cheap but in my opinion could be even less expensive.

Until our government grows a “pair” and forces these companies to disclose their profit/charging strutures we will forever be at their mercy,

Check out this web site: http://www.energybrokers.co.uk/gas/historic-price-data-graph.htm

It will show you the wholesale cost of gas that these rapacious energy companies buy at. To help, on 28th Nov 2014 the price was 58.27p (per therm – that’s 29.3 kWhour). On 5 Feb 2016 that price was just 29.42p.

That’s a staggering 49.5% reduction.

And we get 5-6%.

In my opinion they are “having a laugh”.

I’d be surprised if they were. Most of the Big Six are foreign and EDF is owned in the main by the French Government.

I do think these Big Six (and all the small tiddlers) are however treated like Starbucks, Google, Amazon etc etc.

HowardWhich3,
Consider what you posted.
You said “When gas prices are falling around us….”
For that reason you should NOT be on a fixed tariff.
Check this website and the grapch it provides: http://www.energybrokers.co.uk/gas/historic-price-data-graph.htm

You will see how wholesale gas costs have fallen since end of November, 2014. Once you start to see a rise in this grapch (not expected until at least the end of 2016) you should THEN consider switching to a fixed tariff in expectation of rises from the suppliers.

Love to reply but site seems determined to stop me

This is what I wished to post:
HowardWhich3,
Frustratingly, I posted (or so I believe) a response to you about 30 minutes ago but the site seemed to have problems accepting it and placing on the thread. I’ll try again.
In your post you stated “When gas prices are falling all around us….”.

It is true. Since 28th November 2014 the wholesale cost of gas has fallen steadily and consistently. Look at this web site: http://www.energybrokers.co.uk/gas/historic-price-data-graph.htm

The graph clearly shows the trend and if you check this on a weekly basis you’ll start to see when wholesale prices move upwards. This is reporterd in the press as unlikely to happen throughout 2016.

Whilst prices are falling you are better of on a variable tariff – whichever is the cheapest at any given moment. If you see a cheaper tariff enter the marketplace move – there’ll be no exit penaties as you’ll be on a variable tariff. Only when you start to see an upward trend in the wholesale costs should you select a fixed tariff in expectation of variable prices starting to rise.

I ditched my last fixed tariff about 18 months ago and have changed supplier three times since then. I suspect I’m paying less than you:

Gas rate is 2.94 pence per kWh standing charge: 11.025p per day
Electric rate is 10.0275 per kWh Standing charge: 21p per day
All prices are inclusive of vat at 5%

My gas rate recently dropped by 5.5%+ and is now 2.7825p per kWh incl.

This is what I wished to post:
HowardWhich3,
Frustratingly, I posted (or so I believe) a response to you about 30 minutes ago but the site seemed to have problems accepting it and placing on the thread. I’ll try again.
In your post you stated “When gas prices are falling all around us….”.

It is true. Since 28th November 2014 the wholesale cost of gas has fallen steadily and consistently. Look at this web site:

The graph clearly shows the trend and if you check this on a weekly basis you’ll start to see when wholesale prices move upwards. This is reporterd in the press as unlikely to happen throughout 2016.

Whilst prices are falling you are better of on a variable tariff – whichever is the cheapest at any given moment. If you see a cheaper tariff enter the marketplace move – there’ll be no exit penaties as you’ll be on a variable tariff. Only when you start to see an upward trend in the wholesale costs should you select a fixed tariff in expectation of variable prices starting to rise.

I ditched my last fixed tariff about 18 months ago and have changed supplier three times since then. I suspect I’m paying less than you:

Gas rate is 2.94 pence per kWh standing charge: 11.025p per day
Electric rate is 10.0275 per kWh Standing charge: 21p per day
All prices are inclusive of vat at 5%

My gas rate recently dropped by 5.5%+ and is now 2.7825p per kWh incl.

OK; got it.
Soon as I try to offer the web site for the whoesale gas price I’m thwarted:

So, search for the following “spot price of wholesale gas in UK” and from the results look at Energy Solutions page.

Yes Mike – web links have to be moderated and at the weekends it takes much longer than usual. Your ‘work-around’ is the best way to do it.

Sorry, MikeCunliffe, you’re still paying more than me. My gas is 2.60925. But charges vary (and vary a good deal) by region so you cannot simply compare one user with another, so don’t feel hard done by! For me, V19 represented a 13.3% price decrease over V18 (to which I had switched only a week previously), and was best in whole market.

You’re implied point about exit fees is well made – V19 has an exit fee of £60 but EON has already confirmed that you can switch without penalty within the same company to a no-exit-fee tariff (takes one whole minute to do this online) and then immediately switch suppliers – so an exit-fee is not such a barrier as it might first appear.

At the moment I can save £37 a year by switching to a company with dreadful customer service. Hardly a bright idea and I’ve got better things to do than forever chasing the latest.

So, Morag, all companies will then be nationalised and run as efficiently as the NHS for example. The NHS (Trust) bosses are a shining example of leadership and conscious that their salaries, paid by the tax-payer (not customers) should be pitched at sensible levels. When faults are found within their organisations they act in a public-spirited manner, fixing the fault, applauding the person who identified the problems (whistleblower!) and making everything public and open.

Whereas, a private company makes a fortune out of its customers (who can move elsewhere if they wish) and when found to be acting deceitfully or illegally is fined – thereby reducing the profits being passed to the shareholders whilst those fines are used for good causes thereby benefiting the general taxpayer. Poor leadership in these private companies sometimes results in the leaders loss of position, but, unlike the soon-to-leave HMRC boss, don’t always then result in an honour (Damehood etc).

The answer lies not in privatisation but in true, honest competition.

There’s definately something fishy about the recent 5% cut in gas from ALL the major providers. Why not a range of, say, 4% through to 9% (or better still, 18% through to 30%) Where a number of unconnected companies exhibit such a common action it appears to me that there’s a case for an independant investigation. What on earth is our Energy Secretary (Amber Rudd – Sec. of State for Energy and Climate Change) intending to do about this?

Your last paragraph is an excellent example of oligopoly or tacit collusion Mike.

Thank You Beryl.

In an Oligopoly small firms may exist but the large ones run the show and control all.

This might not be the case if people actually moved to whichever company offered the lowest rates at any given time.

Some of the smaller suppliers are definately cheaper than their larger competitors so we should move. I do.

Usually a fixed rate contract means the prices you pay per unit are fixed for the term, but your monthly DD can be varied to avoid your account being too much in debit. The fixed price contract means just that – you’ve agreed to a price whether the market price goes up or down. Most fixed price term contracts allow you to leave without penalty, so you can choose a cheaper contract with your current supplier (if they have one) or switch online or by phone to another supplier.

malcolm r has nailed the reason.
I avoid this situation by looking at the kiloWatthours used for both gas and electric over a recent, 12 month period. Then, with a calculator I can work out how much I’m likely to pay over the next 12 months given the tariff I’m interested in. Divide that total by 12 and that’s what I tell the supplier I’m paying.
At this time of the year I’m often in debt to the suppliwer slightly but this will be zero again by May and they’ll owe me money by end October. It smoothes out over a year.

OVO paid a modest interest amount on any credit balance you had with them when I was with them a year ago.

Our response from Which? executive director Richard Lloyd said:

“With British Gas today announcing residential profits are up, customers will be asking why energy suppliers have only cut their gas prices by such a paltry amount. Previous Which? research found falling energy wholesale prices for both gas and electricity, which should have been passed on to consumers more quickly and generously in a competitive market.”

http://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/fair-energy-prices/british-gas-profits-2015/

For the first time since I moved to an online energy account, I feel under control – thanks to Ovo. I changed my direct debit because I have been at home recently and using more gas than usual. I was impressed that Ovo posted details of my new DD, though email would have done. In contrast, Scottish Power, my previous supplier, once put up my DD by 40% when I was well in credit and did not even send an email.