Laundry detergents – does bio make your skin crawl?

I’ve suffered from eczema since I was a baby. I’m now 33 so consider myself an old hand with eczema now. I moved to the UK a few years and discovered something called non-bio detergent. I’m still trying to figure out why it causes allergies in UK people and not non UK others. It took me a while to discover what exactly is non bio.

I haven’t noticed any difference from using non-bio and bio and I’m concluding that it’s a nocebo effect. Every culture has its own medical myths that patients and doctors propagate. In Spain, rice soup is recommend for tummy problems which I’ve never had a UK GP recommend. Cold hair in Italy is blamed for colds (yep, I’ve heard docs say this as well). I’ve moved across different continents and hear all sorts of things in one country that don’t exist in another. Especially in complex issues such as allergies, eczema, fatigue etc. In France and Spain, there’s something called heavy legs and there are loads of creams to treat this. Something to do with circulation. Never heard about it in the UK.

Yes I know there are plenty of people who say that biological powder does affect them and I’m not discounting that it does affect people. After all, people can be allergic to anything. But I wonder at the numbers. like I said, I’m an eczema pro and this is the first I’ve heard of this non bio obsession. Frankly I prefer enzymes.

Things I know affect my eczema: dampness, mould, cold, dust. If I control my allergies, my eczema and itching is more controlled. I had to order anti dustmite covers with zips which protect my entire mattress (and not just the top of the mattress) from my home country as I couldn’t find any easily in the UK.
The UK is a very damp country and I’m wondering if that’s what’s happening here. Many to most people do not use dryers (I do not) and damp homes with poor insulation, wallpaper and carpets will breed mould spores. And mould spores will certainly breed in damp clothing. My British housemates seem to have no concept of cleaning washing machines and never clean it. And also leave wet clothing in there for hours.

The cheaper modern washing machines use plastic outer tubs and these harbour bacteria – a problem made worse with low temperature washes and not keeping the washing machine itself clean:

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/fix-it-yourself/washing-machine-washer-dryer/3027-mould-lumps-in-a-washing-machine.html

It can’t be doing your skin any good! Even if bio detergents can cause skin reactions, using non-bio in a dirty washing machine will not cure your allergies!

Is it not infact optical brighteners that cause skin allergies and not enzymes themselves? Did Ariel or Persil of the 1980’s to early 1990’s have optical brighteners as i think they just had bleach?

@ Wavechange, don’t you also think detergents are to blame as well for being difficult to rinse out? I am currently using Ariel Excel gel Colour and with half a load i use 25ml and even then the damn machine can’t rinse it out even with higher water level. I do have an artificial water softner mind you but Daz liquid seems ok for rinsing and so does Fairy non bio. I have a Bosch Classix 6 ‘Vario Perfect’ 6kg machine.

You will have to have to what most people i know do, add water manually to the washer to get a decent wash and rinse level! Is rediculous but can you ever imagine the UK ever being without water? In my personal oppinion older machines never used water to the extreme and what i would call an acceptable level to achieve good wash and rinse results. I used to like the origional smell of Persil of the 1990’s but the latest versions are dreadful albeit the origional non bio.

Have you tried Simply Pure non biological tabs @ Wavechange? I can thoroughly recommend them and they have no brighteners or perfume and rinse out easily. What detergent brands do you currently use and do you find much difference in performance branded and non branded liquids? Would be interested to know as the branded items i really think are over priced and are mostly water anyway. Washing powder is mostly filler so your paying for useless ingredients that do nothing. If you look on the Unilever site the first ingredient in the Bio and colour powder is Sodium Sulfate awell known bulking agent.

The ISE washing machine, mentioned earlier, is expensive because it’s built so well, from what I’ve read. Which? say it washes and rinses well. If all washing machines came with a ten year guarantee, they would cost 2 – 3 times the price and most people won’t pay that for quality. It weren’t so long ago when all washing machines were more expensive and most people had to save up their money to afford one or the alternative was to rent a washing machine (or even use the laundrette!). Personally, I save up my money and buy things which last longer, rather than buying cheaper products which don’t last more than 5 years and, in some cases, don’t even do the job properly!

I do not believe the “biological” part of bio detergents cause skin allergies. It’s almost always the bad rinsing to blame or even washing powder left in the soap tray e.g. by low water pressure. Rinse it all away and don’t use fabric conditioner – then you won’t have any chemicals in your clothes making you itch. The poor rinsing could also explain why people are smelling a strong perfume on their clean clothes, but also remember that most conditioners have perfumes. The sensation of smelling these perfumes must make people think clean clothes also HAVE to smell nice?

@ Wavechange I don’t suppose you would be so kind and find out the ingredients in your Tesco Bio liquitabs so i could compare them to the main brands? Many Thanks

[Hi liberatordeluxe, we’ve edited your as we don’t allow users to post their contact details. Thanks, Mods]

Why do the washing powder manufacturers have to keep changing the formulas? Either something works or it doesn’t. I used to get on well with Persil original non-bio. Suddenly it was ‘new and improved’ and still strangely ‘original’ but what a stink! Now something similar seems to have happened to Eco non-bio. Grr….. Why oh why???

@ Wavechange Would that be Ariel you happen to avoid? I find that makes me sneeze non stop and gives me a headache!

I have recently tried a little experiment with Bio and non-Bio powders.

I saw a small box of Daz bio powder in a 99p shop and bought it.

Washing with this in a 95 degree hot whites cycle (yes, I know perfectly well that this destroys the enzymes, but that’s irrelevant for what I was hypothesising) the laundry came out perfectly clean and I had no itching or other effects from the use of the Daz.

I used the same product from the same box in a 60 degree cycle and also in a 40 degree non-fast coloureds. in the case of the 60 degree wash, no unwanted effects at all and perfectly clean laundry. In the 40 degree wash three ‘problems’ – 1) the powder did not all dissolve and in the first two rinses I could see bits of undissolved powder floating around in the rinse water. I didn’t manage to find any on even black items at the end of the program though; 2) a couple of the items in the wash didn’t come out properly clean (same items used every week and come out perfectly clean using either soap flakes or Stergene). Specifically light coloured socks which had taken on some colour from the inside of trainers still had traces of the trainer colour on them and a grey T shirt which had splashes of garden water containing Miracle Gro came out with the splashes still visible.; 3) the perfume of the Daz was still detectable in the machine at the end of the cycle – though I could not detect it on the laundry after it had been line-dried.

This was a very unscientific experiment but to me it seems to be indicative of Bio powders which are used at the low temps that they are designed for not fully dissolving and therefore not being fully removed in the rinsing. My washer is a very old one which puts rinse water into half way up the door – I would venture to suggest that if you use bio powders in a modern machine which doesn’t use enough rinse water to shift the residue properly then the problem will be greater and traces of the undissolved powder will remain on the laundry at the end of the cycle. I guess that the chances of this then affecting people with sensitive skin would be quite high. Especially as I note that the Daz box warns “Avoid direct contact with skin. If you have sensitive skin use protection when handling this product.”

As an aside from the main topic of this board, it also seems to suggest to me that Bio powders actually don’t work very well at low temps anyway.

Finally, a comment on what Matt says directly above this: the Co-op’s own Non-bio powder, which I’ve used for years, washes perfectly well and I have no skin problems with it, but it smells foul and it makes me sneeze like you’d never believe if I manage to disturb it enough for dust to rise from the pack. If I manage to inhale a little of it it burns the inside of my nostrils terribly. Clearly, therefore, sneezing and other nasal irritations are not exclusive to Bio powders. For these reasons I may actually continue to use Daz whist I can but it for 99p a pack, but only for the 60 and 95 degree cycles – with Soap Flakes and Stergene for the non-fast coloureds.

You should look at the Discuss o Matic laundry forum and there are plenty of people on there who think you don’t need plenty of water for rinsing. They don’t know what they are talking about and it makes me furious when you get someone saying you don’t need loads of water for rinsing. I agree 100% with Dave and Wavechange that machines that use lots of water solve my sensitive skin issues and I can use biological.

I think the reason why powders do not dissolve is because they are packed with Sodium Sulfate: a useless filler which just bulks out the powder and buggers up your septic tank over time and washing machine. The solution in my opinion is to use liquid or liquid-tabs as there are no fillers except maybe more water in some but you are paying for active cleaning agents not junk. Alternatively I can highly recommend Simply as these are super concentrated and rinse cleaning and usually no need to do loads of rinses.

I normally buy Ecover laundry bleach so that disinfects the machine and whitens whites plus you are paying 100% for the active ingredient. £1.80 I think in Waitrose.

Matt

The January 2014 issue of Which? magazine has a report on liquid detergent capsules.

Liquid detergents don’t normally contain bleach and manufacturers usually recommend low washing temperatures, so there is a good chance that users will end up with a washing machine heavily contaminated with bugs unless they periodically take action to prevent this.

It’s great to know that liquid detergents are effective at cleaning but I feel that it would have been useful to mention the bug problem in the article, given the amount of discussion we have had about it.

In order to save money, I “semi make” my own home made washing powder and fabric softener.

Here’s what I use:

Surf biological washing powder with essential oils tropical lily and ylang ylang 25 washes 2KG the price of this box varies everywhere you go so it normally costs anything from £4 – £6.50. I only buy it when its on offer for £3 at Scotmid The Co Operative. It was on offer recently for £3 so I stocked up with a few boxes happy that I was saving at least £1 or more per box.

I have soft water and the dosing instructions for soft water are 50 ml for lightly soiled clothes, 90 ml for medium soiled and 170 ml for heavily soiled. When it costs £3, it works out to £0.12p per wash, that is if you were to only do 25 washes but I don’t use the recommended amount of washing powder, I use at least half, so if I was using half my dosing amount would be 25ml/45ml/85ml. I most likely even use less then that,

If I was to use only a quarter of the recommended amount which I can do since I use additives, (see my post above this one) the amount used would be 12.5ml/22.5ml/42.5ml. Less than 50 ml to clean heavily soiled clothes is exceptional however if I didn’t use additives, then I would use 85 ml for heavily stained clothes, but I would distribute it evenly between the pre wash and wash cycle.

The amount of surf washing powder I use means that I get at least 50 washes out of one 2KG box (I defo know I’m getting more then 50, because of the additives, will have to sit down and work it all out how much each wash costs and how much I actually save). Even if I was to only get 50 washes out of a 25 washes box, 50 washes for £3 is pretty good value wouldn’t you say.

Any ways in order to save more money, I mix this surf washing powder with a cheap washing powder that I buy from Asda. Its called Asda smart price biological automatic washing powder, because it is concentrated, it says on the box that you use less washing powder to get clothes clean. It smells nice and cost £2.80 and claims to do 50 washes 3.33kg which works out to £0.06 per wash. Can’t remember what the dosing instructions are 100% just now as I’m not at home to check but the dosage is approximately 35ml for lightly soiled clothes, 50ml for medium soiled and 90ml for heavily soiled. When I go home, I’m going to do a test to see if you really can get 50 washes out of this, and see if I can push it to more washes.

Either way, that’s £5.80 for 100 washes 🙂 Then to save even more money, I add dripak soda crystals. 1kg for £1 so I buy 3kg = £3. Read my post above to see the benefit of using soda crystals in your washing machine.

Time to mix it, I take a large container and get one empty cup, I then fill the empty cup to the top with the Surf wash powder and empty it into the large container, then I take one cupful of the cheap asda washing powder and empty that into the container, then I take one cupful of soda crystals and empty that into the container. Using a spoon, I mix these three together and then repeat the process again and again until the Surf is finished (it finishes quicker then the other 2 because its only 2kg), this is the recipe for my semi home made washing powder and whatever’s left of the asda washing powder and soda crystals, I put away for another time. All I know is this recipe is saving me a lot of money and I get hundreds of washes out of it for £8.80, which really actually works out to £7.80 because I have 1kg of soda crystals left over which I didn’t use!

When I work out how many washes my large container of washing powder does, I will let you know, all I know over 200 washes for less than £8 😀

As well as using soda crystals as an additive, I also use borax substitute and baking soda in the wash when I’m washing white clothes. The above post tells you my dosing instructions if you want to know more and the uses for these additives.

My semi home made fabric softener –

I still use fabric softener as I had quite a few bottles of comfort blue skies (£2 for 42 washes £0.5 per wash), lenor spring awakening (£2 for 40 washes £0.5p per wash) since they were on offer. I also bought asda star fruit and ambar fabric softener (£2 for 57 washes £0.4 per wash). When it runs out, hopefully I will skip the fabric softener because it is not good for clothes and full of dangerous chemicals.

I use asda white vinegar (£0.48 for 568ml) I buy a few of these bottles.

For scent, and also because they are both antibacterial, I use tea tree oil and zoflora citrus fresh to kill any thing bacterial that might be lurking in the washing machine.

To mix, I add one cup of fabric softener into a large bowl, then 2 cups of vinegar or sometimes I use 2 cups of fabric softener to 1 cup of vinegar although I will add water to the second mixture to dilute the fabric softener a bit and make it less concentrated. (read above for the benefits of using vinegar) and I keep doing this until I have made enough mixture to pour it into a 2litre bottle. I then use the lid of the zoflora and add as many capfuls of this plus drops of tea tree oil until I have the desired smell. Close the bottle and shake it up. My home made solution lasts me a very very very long time. If I have some at home, I’ll add some baking soda as this also naturally softens clothes.

Every time I have used biological washing detergent patches on my arms and to a lesser extent on my legs break out. These start as small rise lumps and develop into a large raised rash which is sore and itchy. Steroid creams help but the only way to get rid of the rash is to find the offending item such as a bed sheet and replace with one that has been washed differently. I know its biological washing liquids/power because I lived in a shared house where despite my requests my friend would buy whatever was on offer without checking. whenever it was bio the rash came and went when I through out the bio and replaced. I have lived with my girlfriend for the past 3 years. and have been using non-bio. Recently she bought a bio liquid without me knowing yet again burning itching rashes I threw it away but every now and then a ‘contaminated item will surface and the rashes return. Last two weeks I have had these rashes and I thought it was a hoody I had been wearing but after washing it and treating the sores would not heal. turned on an old bed sheet had been used! I’m sure i’m in a minority but bio really does cause a reaction in my skin.

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