Does your moisturiser actually make a difference?

I reckon you are the exception to the rule Lauren ( and I like that ) but the brewing industry has shown a sharp decline in the number of traditional pubs over the whole of England due to competition from places like wine bars . Most of the cars I see advertised in this country are family models but going to say Germany and its adverts you see high power cars being advertised and driven by “sporty ” individuals , here it seems anything masculine is binned . I like “petrol heads ” and take a great interest in engine design but here that is not a selling point only how “nice ” it looks . Dont females feel they are being used by the beauty industry ? women are usually shrewd when it comes to money but its as if a magic spell takes over them when it comes to make-up and even surgical “enhancements ” Some say they do it for their own mental well being but in a lot of cases isn’t just to attract male attention ?

A major reason for decline in pubs is cheap alcohol bought by up-and-outs from supermarkets. 🙁 Micropubs are booming in some parts of the country. 🙂

Vintage engines provide a popular male-dominated hobby, so look out for societies and shows where men obsess about old tractors, stationary engines and traction engines. That can be rough on the hands, so a bit of moisturising cream can help avoid more serious problems.

That may be part of the decline in pubs but another, I believe, is more stringent views on drink driving, and perhaps the smoking ban, on rural pubs. Our “local” is now a restaurant. Those in towns, whether traditional pubs or more trendy bars, are accessible by taxi for the majority of patrons.

I thought pubs were moisturisers. Sorry. 🙂

See above 🙁

Moisturisers are clearly essential for you, Lauren, but the cosmetic industry is known for expensive products, with the odd highly questionable claim thrown in. I don’t suppose there is a cartel but companies know what they can get away with charging.

It’s not difficult to analyse the contents of products and rival companies probably do this as a matter of course. I suspect the markup on some cosmetics is huge.

Wavechange while from an outside perspective moisturizer on the hands of somebody actually engaged in the maintenance/repair /building /fitting of steel products of all sorts seems a good idea I can tell you in the long run its not . Anybody working continuously year in year out on practical mechanical engineering is better to just wash the dirt off as your hands over the years toughen up just like if you broke a bone like I have and a lump forms round the break lowering the risk of another break in the same place. Hardened skin is a definite advantage cutting down serious cuts and stopping grease/oil/etc from getting deep into the pores . If you continuaklly apply moisturizer all you bare doing is keeping your hands soft and allowing deep cuts etc to form . I should know I spent a good part of my life in mechanical/electrical/structural engineering until I started with BT then it was lighter work. Swarfega was used among other cleaners . Fine skinned people were a danger in this type of work . One guy stuck his finger in a turning machine that had made a screwed internal hole for a pump shaft , he stuck his finger in to clear the metal shavings and—screwed his finger because he didn’t turn the machine off and yes he was screaming in pain, took three guys to hold him down. Its a tough life at the sharp end and female issues don’t always correspond with male ones . One area moisturizer was good was anybody working with water continually. I still have harder than normal skin its saved my life a few times including saving my left hand..

You are too trusting Wavechange – beauty cartels – you better believe it ! Germany – 2013-Federal Cartel Office anti-trust suite against- Beiersdorf-L,Oreal-Procter+Gamble-Gillette and more and sorry I got the statistics wrong in the beauty industry -LATEST Forbes (USA) figures -2017- $445 BILLION -quote why the beauty industry is a gold-mine. Thats just one report Women are being ripped -off royally by them . In America its an industry by itself ,same in the fashion world , why do women put up with it ??

Duncan – Re men’s hands being tough – That is true, and those who wear bare feet (e.g. African tribes) have very tough soles of their feet. I’m not suggesting that men should attempt to have silky-soft hands. I don’t mind getting my hands dirty and still have a large tub of Swarfega, but nitrile gloves are useful for DIY mechanics. They used to be a specialist product but are now widely used in the trade and readily available to the public.

Regularly working with water can be a problem, especially if it contains detergents, which quickly remove the natural oils from the skin. Both men and women can suffer from dry skin to industrial dermatitis and become hypersensitive to detergent. A friend’s mother worked on a production line and had to give up packing washing-up liquid and change jobs. The worst case I have seen was a male research student who developed severe dermatitis washing his lab glassware in powerful lab detergent. I’m not sure why he did not use the glassware washer provided.

Moisturisers can be very helpful in preventing skin problems from getting worse. I wear sandals frequently, with socks for comfort. Walking in sandals has caused my heels to crack, which is quite painful. Skin cream can help though the real solution is wear shoes to help keep the skin moist when walking long distances. I don’t know how some women manage to wear open-backed shoes for long periods. Maybe they use moisturisers regularly and ensure that there is no hard skin on their heels because lack of flexibility makes cracking more likely.

I don’t know how Procter & Gamble got away with advertising Fairy Liquid as being ‘kind to your hands’ for so long. Here are some innocent children being given some information by someone who might not have been a dermatologist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taEaSfPtbY Nowadays, Fairy Liquid comes with advice about avoiding extended contact and washing and drying hands after use.

For anyone with dermatitis or eczema, moisturising creams are important. Bathing and showering must be done with care because of the risk of removal of natural oils.

Re cartels – I try to avoid making accusations unless I have evidence.

It seems you are right, Duncan: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/18/france-fines-unilever-reckitt-benckiser-procter-and-gamble-gillette-price-fixing

They are very naughty and it rips off customers, or distorts the market if we must avoid emotive terms.

I would love to see a breakdown of the price of moisturising cream, including cost of ingredients, manufacturing cost, marketing and profit. I have an idea of which would be the smallest figure. Maybe we should leave this for others to discuss moisturisers and how effective they are, which is what Lauren has asked about.

The Guardian article is useful and I have always wondered why Which? does not report on such activities for the better education of its readers into the ways of big business.

The Guardian is perhaps misleading about Hankel and Persil when addressing the UK readership
. ” Unilever markets Persil in Ireland and the United Kingdom, Europe, Latin America (except Mexico), China, Australia and New Zealand since acquiring rights to the brand (one of its first such acquisitions) in 1931. (The “Small and Mighty” product line—a highly concentrated liquid detergent formulation—is found only in these markets.) Unilever also sells Persil in France. In this market, the brand focuses on “natural” ingredients and “skin-friendly” formulations.[8] It is competitively sold alongside Unilever’s biggest selling detergent brand in France, “Skip”.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Persil

I don’t see a male/female divide over moisturisers and the cost of the products. Unlike the diesel maniacs who pore over a puttering Petter at vintage engine shows, and who probably lubricate their hands with Multi Purpose Grease, I lead a gentle life having spent most of it behind a desk. Nevertheless I use moisturising cream on my hands, mainly in the winter when they can get dry and raw. I have never suffered from eczema but they were quite bad earlier this year and uncomfortable most of the time, but applications of moisturising cream mollified them and took away the roughness. I didn’t count the cost and thought that a tub or a tube lasted a good while. It is possible that there are some natural balms that I am unaware of but with knuckles like sandpaper I doubt there is anything so good as a proper hand-cream formulation well rubbed-in. I tend to take care of my hands and nearly always wear gloves when working in the garden or doing DIY. I don’t do car maintenance or washing-up or hand-washing of clothes apart from an occasional item so my hands are protected from most irritants and yet they still get dry with broken skin so moisturising hand-cream is essential.

I started getting dry skin and cracks that were quite sore, that tended to come and go, about a year ago. No other skin problems. I had really greasy products from the doc which did not help, I tried antiseptic creams that helped the cracks heal (or so it seemed) but the problem returned. I have recently used a little Betamethasone Valerate which contains a topical steroid and that has improved things, so far, quite significantly. However it is not for long term use so I’ll see if it stays at bay. I do not know what caused, or causes it; I generally garden without gloves, nor wear them when handling wood or doing diy.

If it’s betamethasone, then it is old stock because the British Approved Name has been betametasone for years. Pointless – though some of the name changes of drugs have helped avoid confusion. I found some antiquated stuff in my bathroom cabinet when moving home.

Dated 2017 wavechange.

That is a good vintage. Sorry, I was confusing it with beclomethasone, for which the approved name is beclometasone. 🙁

A possible side effect of your drug, betamethasone, is euphoria. 🙂

This is what my ointment looks like wavechange, if it helps.

The Wikipedia version shows a much more professional chemical drawing of the same compound. The structures of the betamethasone and beclometasone (which is used in nasal sprays and in the asthma inhaler I use) differ in the halogen – F and Cl, respectively.

They are topical steroids of use in severe eczema and psoriasis but we are very much off the topic of moisturisers. 🙁

Years ago when in the US, a pharmacy recommended Cortizone 10 for a skin problem. It is an excellent healing cream for rashes, itches, bites and also works quite well as a moisturiser for dry skin patches. Every time we go we stock up on it but I see it is now available in the UK.

Cortizone 10 (note capital) is a commercial brand of ointment containing hydrocortisone and easily mixed up with cortisone, a natural hormone. Hydrocortisone is often used in treatment of skin conditions.

It’s well worth reading the leaflet supplied with these ointments, especially if considering prolonged use or for anything other than a small area.

I recently had a mild infection of a big toe that was starting to cause eczema according to the GP. Treatment with fusidic acid (antifungal) and hydrocortisone ointment worked like magic and I have most of a tube that expires within three months of opening. 🙁

I have just looked at the price of the Olay Regenerist products and can see why there is concern about price.

@johnward – It might be worth having a word with your GP in case you have some nutritional deficiency, which can happen even with a decent diet. Like Malcolm, I rarely wear gloves for gardening and until recently have always washed-up by hand, yet no problems so far.

Thanks, Wavechange. The last time I saw my GP he said there’s no need to come back . . . so I haven’t. That was in 1959.

I did consider the possibility of a nutritional deficiency and did adjust my diet in April, after which the problem seems to have gone away, but I cannot be certain if that was due to the change or to other reasons.

Anyway, my hands that judicious are now soft as my face . . . .

I would use that one in a pun competition.

It took me 36 years to get round to having my eyes tested after I left school. I’m glad that your hands are better. The keyboard exercise seems to be working.

As I don’t know what f**k means ( 🙂 ) I looked up possibilities and found it could be “faik” – meaning fold or pleat. It seems appropriate in this context that anti-wrinkle creams might in fact be described as the opposite – creating folds and pleats.

I personally don’t like the use of f**k by anyone – least of all celebrities – at any available opportunity. It has devalued its use as a word of last resort. Is there now a replacement available?

It’s a very old word and the difficulty in tracing its etymology comes about because it as rarely written down.

Superb first sentence, Sophie.

I was worried for you Sophie I thought you were the lady who left Which , I am glad to see its not you .

Cheers, Duncan, and I would miss you too.

For some reason your post took a day to get to me Sophie but I like your style.I perfectly understand why women need bras but I didn’t realise we were in a “Post Feminism ” era .I would like to think Greenpeace was non-political but recent history proves they have been “high-jacked ” by “Western Powers ” .I learned in life that looks don’t really count and that its whats in somebodies mind+heart that really counts , so men,s and women,s attitude to “beauty ” is wrong –unless you want a “Trophy ” wife/husband.

I don’t think we’re in a “post-feminism” era just yet, Duncan, not for a long time to come, not as long as there is still so much work to do.

https://www.quechoisir.org/guide-d-achat-babycook-video-n6457/

Astonishingly it seems on the Continent that you can COOK food for babies. Who knew – my children had to eat from tins and jars. These devices really are quite impressive and the best one is 4 times better than the worst. The astonishing gap [80 vs20] due to Philips using BPA in the plastic of there version.

I’m relieved, Patrick. Polycarbonate is the usual suspect when BPA is mentioned. Polycarbonate is OK for some applications (e.g. for ‘glasses’ in pub bear gardens) but high temperature and prolonged contact could contaminate food with significant amounts of BPA. It’s not quite that simple.

Dry skin is a common issue, I suspect. I wonder if it’s related to the simple fact that we’re far cleaner these days than we used to be? In days of yore one bath per week was the norm, but now we pop in and out of the shower on a daily basis.

There is no doubt that the detergents in shampoo and shower gels remove natural oils that protect the skin. I have no idea whether bathing or showering is better for those with dry skin.

I have read that it’s not a good idea to wash your hair daily but I would look like Oor Wullie if I didn’t, so it’s a quick wash rather than massaging the scalp, followed by thorough rinsing to get rid of traces of shampoo.

The best people to advise are those with eczema and dermatitis.

https://nationaleczema.org/eczema/treatment/bathing/ give advice, bathing once a day in lukewarm water to hydrate the skin. “When your skin is dry, it’s not because it doesn’t contain enough oil. It’s because your skin isn’t doing a very good job of retaining its moisture (water). “

Yes, and our grandfolk often got wet a lot more in the rain than we do and the soft rainwater was also used for washing. I think some of the old soaps and soapflakes were pretty caustic, though.

Are the alcohol gels used at hospital entrances and some catering establishments harmful to the hands?

Certainly made my hands itch.

According to the page that Malcolm has provided a link for: “Try to avoid waterless, antibacterial cleansers, which often contain ingredients like alcohol and solvents that are very hard on your skin (especially during flare-ups). Remember not to scrub your skin while cleansing and to gently pat your skin dry when you’re done. As always, moisturize your skin immediately afterward.” That is advice for people with eczema and may not be relevant to the general public.

This was to link to advice for those with eczema – but it may well be good advice for anyone with dry skin? I don’t know; perhaps an expert can help. For those with skin problems it may be good to try the advice given on the National Eczema Association site that I linked to above; I don’t see it can do any harm and it may prove helpful.

According to the WHO, no. http://www.who.int/gpsc/tools/faqs/abhr2/en/. But they warn against drinking it. 🙁

I had looked at the same document, Malcolm, but it does not mention the additional components that can be included to protect the skin after use. Propan-2-ol (isopropanol) is generally the main ingredient. It’s not as toxic as methanol but definitely to be avoided.

We may see further encouragement to use alcohol-based hand-rubs in hospitals and GP surgeries. From today’s news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40934190

“How is it spread?
That is still being investigated, but experts think it is spread by contact from person to person, on people’s hands, clothing or on bits of medical equipment.
Contamination is quick – several hospitals have reported it takes as little as four hours from initial exposure.”

Gosh – on clothing!! What a surprise … looks like in some circumstances hot washes could be back in fashion – provided of course they are genuinely hot washes and not some misleadingly titled 60C wash running at 27C.

” Hygiene effectiveness of laundering was enhanced by inclusion of AOB even at lowest temperatures, except for C. albicans, which was virtually unaffected by AOB. The use of AOB-containing detergents as well as high washing temperatures reduced cross-contamination to sterile swatches included in the load. ”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25207988

Thanks for that, Patrick. Let’s go to the Convo about washing machine temperatures: https://conversation.which.co.uk/home-energy/washing-machines-60-degrees-kill-bugs-detergent/