Should retailers do more to promote healthier food?

Shameful is right. It just goes to show what makes money for the shop owners and how easy it is to be sucked in. On my graphic design courses I learned that millions of pounds are spent on the psychology in advertising. Money that could be better spent on helping people, perhaps!

Parents are as much to blame, say NO to the children when they ask for sweets, crisps at the counter. Take your own eyes off these things as well. Say, NO NO NO. Why do you think so many people are over weight? Have an apple or grape, much better. I don’t see those at the checkouts.
Lets face it. The supermarkets talk about healthy eating but really all they are interested in is taking your money, what ever it is.

I was amused when I saw one supermarket, was it Tesco, trumpeting that they would be stocking healthier snacks at the checkout, because both Aldi and Lidl have been doing this for years!

Waitrose are also offering whole and very sweet cakes for £2 as a special! shops supply what we buy – I agree we need to resist! but like giving up smoking sometimes it is best to avoid the temptation altogether in the first phase of changing ones life style and you cannot avoid the supermarket till!!

True, but excess sugar is more harmful that fat and exercise also plays a very important part in maintaining good health and weight.

Trans-fat would be shown on the ingredients list as partially hydrogenated vegetable oil and it is not an ingredient I have seen for years in the UK. There is some naturally occurring trans-fat in meat and dairy products.

As I’m sure you know Lansley refused to ban Trans fats and McDonald’s and other fast food outlets continue to use it, sometimes up to 8gms per 170gm serving of chips. Naturally occurring trans fats occur at high levels in Olive Oil but not of the Elaidic acid (trans) variety. As with all biochemical issues it’s far from simple but the bottom line is that you may well be consuming Hydrogenated (Elaidic acid) fats without necessarily knowing it if you consume a lot of ready meals or eat at a burger chain.

Thanks Ian. I had not given fast food much thought. I recall that there was a large case against McDonalds in the US and thought that this had put paid to use of trans-fats in their products.

I’ve found this statement from the company: Since 2007 we have been using non hydrogenated cooking oil in all of our UK restaurants and this move has resulted in us being able to remove all artificial Trans Fatty Acids (TFA) leaving only naturally occurring TFA, less than 2%.
Moving to this blend of oil in 2007 resulted in a trans-fat reduction of 94% when compared with oil used in 1994.
In addition, in 2008, we also eliminated all hydrogenated vegetable oils from our entire menu (including coatings and dressings). Our success meant we were able to sign up to the Trans Fat pledge as part of the UK Government’s Responsibility Deal in March 2011.

Obviously this is just one fast food company.

Checkout sweeties are set out as impulse buys, and for impulse to work the stuff has to be appealing. M&S seems to put all the choccie snackeroonies on the rack at your back alongside the adjacent checkout. People grab it by the handful.

“I’m getting a little tired of people doing exactly as they please then blaming someone else for allowing them to do it.” – me too, well said Dave.

According to the British Poultry Council, the use of antibiotics as growth promoters stopped in the 1990s.

When I can buy organic produce at sensible prices, I much prefer that.

“Clearly the supermarkets sell too much junk food in the guise that the same is very healthy!” – but they can only sell this “junk food” because many people like to buy it.

That’s a good point DerekP so are people throwing caution to the wind and putting taste before their health concerns?

In Sainsbury’s yesterday [Saturday], a mother with her daughter [about 3 yrs old] > “Get some crisps, darling”. So off she toddles – to an area the size of the average grocer’s when I was that age – and she takes a giant bag [containing 24 packets] from a low shelf easily within reach and returns to mum. Mum gladly accepts the contribution to the trolley already bursting with fizzy pop and sugary morsels. Let’s hope they last through the weekend. The young girl was still a regular size for her age, unlike her mother.

A well-known fortnightly magazine used to have a regular cartoon strip called “The Fatty-Puffs” about an over-eating couple and their general engorgement. It hasn’t been seen for a while so perhaps the joke has worn thin and nobody cares anymore.

I suppose that we should be grateful that Sainsbury did not have the 36 pack bags at the checkouts.

At one time, crisps and confectionery were sold individually and now its multipacks or larger packs, for example 150g bags of crisps and 2 litre bottles of cola.

People with American-size fridges need to fill them with American-size products so their children can become American-size grown-ups.

I notice a lot of biscuits now come in double and triple packs yet average household size has been declining for years. I am sure the more there is in the cupboard the more people will eat. OK, it’s their choice and their money – but should the children be exposed to such temptation and gluttony? There was a time when they had to ask for a treat but now they help themselves [it wouldn’t surprise me if they set up the on-line delivery order!].

Ever since I was a kid I have been keen on biscuits and I usually buy a packet when I’m in the supermarket. If I leave them in at the front of the cupboard, the packet might be empty by the end of the day, but if I put them out of sight they are likely to be forgotten.

Should we ban biscuits wavechange? I don’t know what size you are but you are making your own decision to buy and eat (or not) them. I like fattening foods but remain a lithe sleek 11 stone (70 kg) and 6’11/2″ (1869mm/ 1.87m).

My favourite biscuit seems no longer available – Victoria Sandwich I think they were called; triangular pink wafer biscuits covered in dark chocolate and bought by my Mum in the ’50s. With the general shortage of food, and dubious quality, these seemed a treat but maybe that is looking backwards through rose-tinted specs. Like those huge Weston’s Wagon Wheels. Now I think decent ginger nuts dipped in tea take some beating.

Resisting temptation takes some doing, doesn’t it?

I’ve no problem with self-control, Malcolm. I’m fairly resistant to the pressures of the commercial world and to peer pressure. When I learned of the shops’ strategy of selling junk food at the checkout I made a point not to buy it on principle.

Even if some of us can behave sensibly, the fact remains that many adults are overweight or obese and this is a growing problem with children too. It’s fairly obvious that the manufacturers and retailers are exploiting those who lack self-control.

A general debate on taking personal responsibility for actions might be interesting.

All cooking methods destroy vitamins to some extent and different studies have provided very different results regarding microwave cooking. In my parents’ generation it was common to boil vegetables for far longer than necessary, which would certainly decrease the vitamin content.

If you don’t eat enough food you will feel hungry but I’m not aware that our bodies can identify that they have a vitamin deficiency. Is there scientific evidence that supports this hypothesis?

Rickets?

Does rickets or the other symptoms of vitamin deficiencies make a person feel hungry?

By the time rickets has manifested the damage has been done.

Agreed, but what I am trying to find out is whether there is any evidence that we want to eat more if our diet is deficient in one or more vitamins, as intimated by A Holmes.

I don’t suppose there are any indicators of vitamin deficiency that would auto-suggest a dietary adjustment. A Holmes said that “if you don’t get the nutrition, your body asks for more food to try and find it” which is a fair simplification, and the same applies to energy, but they are short term fixes for a temporary problem. Vitamin deficiency takes longer to become apparent and even then might not be perceptible to the subject; it might also be accompanied by over-eating of the wrong foods and the person feels satisfied even though their condition is deteriorating. Correcting the composition of foodstuffs is the strategic and surest way of remedying the problem as personal choice will not, on its own, rectify the diet.

Yes – I was only being facetious with my comment.

Actually, Ian, I thought it was a fair point since rickets is making a comeback. It used to be closely associated with malnutrition due to insufficient intake of food, but today’s problems are different with too much food being consumed and mostly of the wrong type leading to obesity and possibly, in some cases, to bone deformation due to the vitamin deficiency and the overweight. While I feel that adults can make their own choices on what and how much to eat [although I don’t necessarily like the consequences for the nation and the NHS], children and young people are entitled to some protection from the commercial forces and prevalent ignorance about a healthy diet.

“Appease those who value freedom of choice”? We live in a democracy where we can take responsibility for our actions, not a dictatorship where we are told what to do. I’d like to keep it that way and educate people how to look after their health.

The NHS say “The term ‘obese’ describes a person who’s very overweight, with a lot of body fat.
It’s a common problem in the UK that’s estimated to affect around one in every four adults and around one in every five children aged 10 to 11.”

It might be that instead of spending vast sums on the Olympics and professional sports people we could use the money to encourage younger people in particular to get off their bottoms, put down their electronic gadgets, and do some exercise. We need facilities to do that, and they need to be affordable, not high priced commercial gyms and tennis clubs. Oh, and schools need to provide real exercise that makes you sweat and breath harder as part of the curriculum.

Education has its limitations. Without cooperation, little will be learned. I expect that most people who are obese are very well aware that eating too much and exercising too little are the reasons.

Peer pressure has a lot to do with the way that many young people go out to get drunk. Eating out with others has become a more regular activity than it used to be and portion sizes have increased.

Many cannot easily quit smoking even though they know it is harmful and others drink more than is good for them. If marketing and selling of food was controlled to cut down on obesity, I would support it.

I agree about the encouraging people to take exercise.

Half the cereals aisle is full of sugar- and chocolate-coated rubbish these days all at premium prices. One of the side effects of austerity I suppose.

I agree that price does play its part – but quite a lot of nice fruit and veg is not all that expensive.

Chicken and egg is an interesting argument (forget campylobacter for once). When I was in design and manufacture we felt than unless a product was produced the customer would not know it was possible, so would not demand it. Would we demand LED light sources for our homes with no notion they were possible?

I think the product comes first, and if successful it is followed by demand. So the manufacturers are the initial source of any problem of unhealthy food, the retailers next for stocking it, but unless customers choose to buy it, it will fail.

We have the final say – if we choose to. Consumers’ problems seem to be not buying such products, but consuming them to excess, whether crisps, fatty beefburgers or alcohol. Some think we should be regulated and prevented from exercising our free choice, as if we are some part of an organisation that a few who “know better” wish to dominate with their own ideas.

My preference is that people should be given information to help them make their own choices. We are all individuals with the right to live our lives the way we choose, but to accept the consequences of our own actions.

Considerable information has been provided and most food comes with information on nutrition. I believe that McDonalds and other well known fast food outlets provide nutritional information too. But the number of overweight and obese people is growing and it is high time that we controlled the worst excesses of the food industry.

Free choice seems intuitively right but the statistics show that this is not working. When the house is on fire it is better to take prompt action than tell people they need a smoke detector in each room and to test it regularly.

Telling an alcoholic to cut down on their drinking does not always work. Some manage to get their weight under control but many don’t.

I think Beryl is right about the effect of stress. Ignoring it is not a good idea, nor is turning to alcohol or excessive or unhealthy food consumption.

Walkers have now switched to using sunseed oil in their crisps, a typical 35g bag contains two and a half teaspoons of oil and nearly a fifth of children eat two packs a day according to The British Heart Foundation. A pack a day habit is equal to a child drinking 5 litres of oil every year.

Malcolm I am a great believer in freedom of choice but food choice has it roots in what a parent feeds a child on from a very early stage in its life. As Wavechange makes the point old habits die hard and can too easily become addictions which are extremely hard to break once established.

The damage to ones health from over indulging whether it be through eating or drinking to excess or the making the wrong choices generates a huge strain on the NHS, and in that respect I would suggest maybe we all have a duty of care to make sensible choices that first benefit not only ones own health but also that of your nearest and dearest and ultimately society as a whole.

“If all else fails read the instructions” has relevance. All new houses are fitting with interlinked smoke alarms but most people believe their house will not catch fire – and it doesn’t. Certainly substance abuse, whether alcohol, smoking, drugs, food, sugar, is something that becomes wired into your brain and is difficult to reverse. However most people do not abuse things in this way, and the penalty for banning some things is denying the rights of the vast majority who do not abuse them. I like a small glass of wine, cream cakes, occasional beefburger, chips, bag of crisps, moderate consumption of soft drinks, and would be very miffed if someone tried to prevent me from buying them “for my own good”.

Beryl, I totally agree that we have a duty of care, particularly to our offspring. I believe the majority do adopt a sensible approach to this without being over-prescriptive, especially to their children. My problem comes with how you deal, if you have the right, with those who are not so responsible as if we have some superior right to control their habits.

We could ban alcohol – for some it is disastrous; smoking – for many it damages their health; dangerous activites – apart from self-harm it imposes a strain on A&E. I just do not know how you intrude into other people’s lives when so many activities, done irresponsibly in our eyes, can cause them harm.

The whole point Malcolm being it is your choice to ignore the now well established and proven advice as to what you consider is acceptable to your own lifestyle, as long as you are aware of the risks involved through over indulging in the wrong kind of food and that the damage to ones health can occasionally be irreversible.

Yes, Beryl, I agree. Given the correct information, it is your choice how to behave. Sometimes though, the “right information” is not always “right” as we have seen with advice on foods.

Malcolm, maybe the right information about the right kind of food is the preferred option to the wrong information about the wrong kind of food. Your GP would know the answer to that little poser, but I hesitate to delve any further into what is essentially a private matter.