Have you had a problem with smelly kettle water?

It’s hard to make recommendations – because the “smelly kettles” problem does not seem to affect all kettles and/or all households.

A friend of mine recently replaced her kettle with a £6 plastic bodied budget offering from Tesco. As a consumer of tea at her house, I must say that I cannot detect any problems with it at all.

But who knows – maybe the exact same kettle in a different house – or another kettle of the same design but from different batches of raw materials – might exhibit the problem.

And I say your guessing is right Peter .

I know that kettles have been made in China for far longer than this problem has been apparent.

Hence I agree that the issue is most likely caused by relative recent developments in kettle manufacture.

The designs of kettles have not really changed, but both manufacturing processes and raw materials may have done.

Eco developments now encourage the much greater use of recycled materials in manufacturing – this may have the adverse trade-off that greater proportions of potentially volatile impurities have become present in the raw materials.

Continuing pressures to reduce the costs of materials may also lead to the same effect – cheaper materials are likely to be more impure, bringing in more “trace quantities” of unwanted substances.

On the button Derek , I was thinking the same but was looking for substantial proof as you know many posts i post get challenged , an I agree from me .

Duncan,

The problem here does seem to be getting proof.

in olden days, Which? ran their own labs and might have employed some clever folk who could have undertaken “post-mortems” of convicted “smelly kettles”. The trouble is, if the quest is to find trace quantities of smelly materials, the required analysis might not cheap or easy.

If enough kettles are affected, and get return for refunds, then our British kettle retailers and distributors (I won’t call them manufacturers) might eventually get motivated to do something about it.

My ~10 year old Asda kettle was probably made in China but its labelling does not state its country of origin. My spare kettle is a ~25 year old Phillps. They are/were a Dutch company, but it it was Made In England. But since then, consumer pressure for ever keener prices seems to have resulted in more and more consumer goods being made overseas.

Derek I am spending a bit more time traveling round the Internet to get back up to what I post now but I go by the “Law of Averages ” that if enough people complain about something -well there must be something to it as they cant all be wrong . Each person is an individual some have good sense of taste/smell others not , some can “live with it ” others cant . The biggest clue I got was actually from wavechange I think he got it spot on .Because of the promotion of Eco information a lot of stuff in the past 20 years is being recycled and he said Plastic . That makes sense as recycled plastic will have impurities in it even thought the big Chinese manufacturers just mention “polypropylene ” etc on their websites as what they do and small Chinese sub-contractors do are two different things ,especially when its a “save money ” exercise both by the manufacturer and the importer especially as he wants to maximise his profits. I just dont trust them and I do trust public reaction . Your right about laboratories -expensive , but I haven’t given up ,I inhabit some very radical websites which do “exposures ” nearly every day and get emailed by many but I sift through them and then double check before taking what they say as gospel I am still trying to get a laboratory test result that condemns the plastics used in most kettles 100 % ,if I do I will certainly post it .

There have been many people complaining of smelly kettle water and I have asked Which? several times if it would be a good idea to retrieve some of the offending kettles and carry out a proper analysis of what is causing the problem.

This sort of thing was, I thought, among Which?’s jobs, and probably would have been when it did its own testing. I also used to think a significant part of my subscription went towards investigations and testing, but it seems only around 10% goes towards this vital (in my view) work. So maybe that’s why we still don’t know what kettle to buy? 🙁

DerekP, I doubt if the UK is the only victim of smelly kettle water. Perhaps Which? might ask BEUC (the umbrella group that looks after all the European consumer organisations) to ask these organisations to see whether their members have similar kettle problems. Then we might get enough impetus for a properly-managed investigation?

In view of the relatively small amount of our money that Which? puts towards testing, and since many of the products we use are also used throughout Europe, is it not time all these organisations worked together to help all consumers? We might have got somewhere with Sony phones, Whirlpool driers, for example with the weight of our European friends behind us.

Might we not also get a consumer associations’ test laboratory as well to save subcontracting all this work?

Malcolm -consumer association test laboratory- back that up 100 % .Good idea !

Which? still talks about “our lab” in print media. A bit disingenuous I think. Once people find out about these little misnomers they might lose trust in the organisation.

Which? could quite easily collect suspect kettles and discuss with an analysis laboratory the best procedure to test for contaminated water after boiling. They would be doing their members a service and also the industry in, if successful, publicising an issue. The might talk to the trade association to see whether they would also participate. Have they done this?

I am not suggesting that Which? has ll its own test facilities in house. What I suggested was that all the European consumers’ associations start cooperating and establish a European test lab – probably spread around Europe with different labs doing different testing. There is surely enough testing work on the majority of products to warrant this.

Still nothing to stop them seeking outside testing when very specialist facilities are required.

A laboratory is not just about testing – following a set procedure and publishing the results. It is about looking at the procedure for improvements, looking at the results to learn what is going on, and intelligently making use of that information – to predict better ways to perform, ways to achieve better reliability and safety for example. What you lose by not having your own test facilities is the experienced staff who can guide what Which? should be doing.

It would also allow people like Which? to input a consumers’ view, based on real knowledge, into the standards system to help modify and develop them – through BSI in the UK’s case. I am still waiting to hear whether Which? has any representation on BSI committees; it is one of the ways the consumers’ needs can be usefully communicated.

If, as appears to be the case, smelly kettles are proliferating, it should not be necessary for Which? to deprive any members of their kitchen hardware – they should buy a load of the different manufacturers’s models [starting with the highest-selling brands] and put them to the nose and throat test before submitting offending articles for professional analysis. Since kettles are a virtually essential piece of apparatus found in 27 million homes and countless other places this would be a great and noble public service.

Darn! You write something then you find it …
” Strange tastes?
We’ve had reports that some kettles, particularly plastic kettles, can give the boiled water a strange or unpleasant taste. A quick experiment in our lab with a cheap plastic kettle confirmed that this can indeed happen with water that has been left in the kettle and reboiled again and again. We don’t know if there’s anything more to this than just a plasticky odour, but it is certainly worth avoiding.
To avoid this problem, try to only fill the kettle with as much water as you need each time (good advice in any case – it’s more energy-efficient). If any boiled water is left over, pour it out before you refill the kettle. If the problem persists, it might be time to replace your plastic kettle, perhaps with a glass or metal-bodied model.”
Choice
Universal problem?

What water tastes the best ? As someone who has tasted water straight from a mountain stream in land that was untouched by human hand I think it has no equal, this is due in a large part to the large amount of oxygen content I am sure Ian living where he does might agree with this ? . In any case my point (and it is open to dispute ) is that boiled water loses a lot of oxygen and therefore the concentrates from the plastic will have more of an effect on taste . Diesel and other posters head over to= hotwatermagic.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/destructive-myths-dissolved-oxygen.html. While it doesnt give a definitive answer they do all agree that water, when heated, loses its oxygen content and thats what I am getting at.

I agree, , , I was brought up on spring water and now have deep bore water
I cannot compare to any mains water I’ve ever tasted
All mains to me is either bland or smells and tastes of bleach. . .Of course those used to it will argue an do argue that there is no taste or smell off of their water. . .As the add goes “noseblind”

Even water at differing locations within the same estate/development can be quite different due to the chemicals being heavy

I suppose it’s one of the disadvantages of so many living in urban areas. . . It would be impossible to supply chemical free water in such industrial quantities required and the costs of not recycling water in urban areas would be prohibitive even if we could find enough fresh water

I’ll stick to my hole in the ground. . . . Nature is a good Mistress in my eye’s

I think most of the people with the smelly kettles and bad tasting water just want their hot water to be the same as it was before they bought a new kettle, and just as it would be if they boiled some in a saucepan. Whether it is as fresh as a mountain stream or tastes of bleach [which I have never tasted – it might be lovely] isn’t the issue really.

As I have repeatedly said in all these Conversations, re-using previously boiled water is no way to make a decent cup of tea or any other hot drink because of the loss of oxygen. For years now all our kettles have been metal and we have never had a taste or smell problem. We still have an old plastic kettle which never gave any taint or odour when it was in everyday use. It’s not a plastic versus metal question either. Personally I am convinced there is something about the particular grades of plastic that are being used nowadays since even metal kettles have plastic parts, but sub-standard metal composition could also play a part. Let’s get them tested and see.

Many thanks for that post Graham thats what we are looking for evidence ,keep it coming folks ! Once many come in we can make up a graph .

As far as I know, most modern kettles have a stainless steel base with the heater below, so there is no contact with the water. Some have reported metallic tastes, presumably from stainless steel that has not been correctly ‘passivated’ but the main problem is what has frequently been described as a TCP taste and smell. There are still some traditional kettles with chrome-plated copper element and the plating can start to flake with age. When I had this sort of kettle I always emptied out water that had been standing and never experienced a metallic taste.

The Stainless Steel Association could not see how the metal would cause taint. The main suspect seems to be plastic. maybe used in seals, the body, level indicator or lid. But all we’ve had to date is speculation. Someone could pay for tests to be done by an appropriate laboratory (try a university?) on kettles that are known to taint water. Then we might get facts and be able to see how to avoid taint in future, or at least advise consumers which kettles to avoid – maybe include taint as part of the Which? kettle tests. What is the reluctance to adopt a scientific approach to try to solve this problem? Otherwise this problem will just drag on….and on….

I recall this, Malcolm. From what I have read here and elsewhere, the problem of metallic tastes is less frequent than plastic tastes. A university might take on a project involving the public as part of ‘reach out’ or ‘outreach’, which is seen to be a good thing. Unfunded hobby research is frowned on by the bean counters these days.

One of the problems we are up against is the apparent low frequency of taste/smell problems. Retailers will probably replace problem kettles although kettles are so cheap that some people will just buy a different brand rather than make a fuss. I know of many cases where people have replaced products that have failed during the guarantee period. Usually the reason is that the goods have been bought online. I know someone who was given a fitness tracker by her daughter and it failed within two weeks. She just bought another one, hoping her daughter would not notice the slight difference. Incredible but true. 🙁

I have asked family and friends and have yet to discover anyone who is aware of the taste/smell problem. When I do I will try to discover whether it’s a problem that everyone can detect.

Which? did say that they would include a taste test in future kettle tests but like radio interference caused by LED bulbs, I’m still waiting for this sort of information.

So backing up my-land of built to a price – MC ?

“two UK companies specifications” ==> “built to a price” ??

Derek if you have been following my posts over a long period on many different Chinese products complained about by posters on Which you will find we are talking about large number of products. If you head to America you will find even more criticism of them not only by posters but by business tech. engineers who assist the US public in determining the cause of breakdowns in imported goods which has been caused by government policy -aka BB of outsourcing its factories to $1 an hour Land -aka-China where I can list a large number of products built to a price . I have said it before but I see I have to repeat it. I am not blaming the Chinese directly I am blaming the importers who are British and American who TELL the Chinese how much they want to pay for a product. The Chinese are benefiting from UK/US political policy of bigger profits to shareholders/banks and financial institutions instead of investing the money in British engineering factories thereby providing jobs for the poor which helps to sustain the economy by their ability to spend money on the economy instead of life on the dole.

duncan, have you looked at where many of your clothes are made? We “support” many low labour cost countries for our supplies. I’m sure the economies in those countries benefit and they gradually become higher-cost suppliers as their own wealth increases. So production will move elsewhere. Africa next? Which is why we don’t make so many staples in this country – our labour costs preclude it. Personally I’d be happy to pay more for a UK product and see much less cheap wear-once-throw-out fashion clothing or the unnecessarily full wardrobes we can now afford; but I suspect I will be in a minority of men, let alone women.

As yet we do not have any proven answer on why certain kettles taint water, only hypotheses, some of which do seem to hold water. Why have Which? not tested suspect kettles to see if they can identify a cause? And why do they not include taint in their testing? Is it such an elusive phenomenon confined to just a few isolated cases? Which? could use their Connect group for a survey of the make and model of kettle used, the area they live in, and whether they have noted tainted water. Might get somewhere instead of waffling on. If they have already made a rigorous investigation I will withdraw my comment and go make a cuppa.

As Duncan says, Chinese manufacturers will make anything for anybody according to the specification they are given, which will usually set out the quality of components and materials used in the manufacturing process and the quality control procedures required. Importers and retailers of domestic electrical appliances are under extreme competitive pressure to offer goods down to a price rather than up to a standard but good quality products are made in China as well as low quality products. The responsibility rests with the company commissioning the production. We have many products that were made in China that are entirely satisfactory, well-designed, well-made, and sometimes very high quality. Obviously this will be reflected in the price and the nature of the UK retailer from whom they are purchased. Buying goods without seeing them first, or without checking on serious product reviews, or by only considering the price, exposes consumers to risks of disappointment.

duncan, I have not mentioned China nor said it was a “third world” country. It is a developing country It does have low labour costs, possibly subsidised, to help grow the economy. I say subsidised because even products that come from expensive machinery with minimal labour – pressure diecasting, injection moulding, laser micro-machining – are sold much cheaper than we can produce for. As China becomes more of a consumer nation by becoming richer, labour costs will rise and other countries will almost certainly try to fill the gap. That seems to be the cycle.

As this Convo is about kettles I still like to hear from Which? about why it does not feel that testing for taint is worth doing.

Agree wholeheartedly with Malcom re testing for taint, have purchased three kettles in past 18 months, all still working but two (cheaper models) appeared to make water taste of plastics, to point of not enjoying drinks made this we decided to discontinue use.

Kev – You are absolutely right about the lack of information about plastics used in household items. Simply naming a plastic as acetal or polypropylene, for example, is only part of the story. A named plastic can include a range of different materials including plasticisers, fillers, colouring materials and other additives that make it suitable for a particular application. Even when made, the properties and composition of plastics can change.

Take plasticisers as a well known example. These are often added to make plastics less brittle and more flexible. Typically they are small molecules that can be gradually lost from the plastic, one of the reasons why some plastics become brittle with age. The characteristic smell of new cars and other products is likely to be loss of plasticiser. When making kettles, plasticisers and other additives are chosen from a list of ones that are believed to be safe if they migrate into the water.

Plastics are undoubtedly one of our greatest achievements but I would like to go back to metal kettles. Occasionally there might be a metallic taste if poor stainless steel is used but this seems to be a relatively uncommon cause of strange smells and tastes.

On one industrial website it was admitted that plastic shavings from kettle production are recycled , it was stated that it depends on the manufacturers quality checks as to whether they are of high enough quality to be recycled as plastic pellets as impurities can be introduced to them.

Agree 100% with your comments ‘wave’ didn’t want to ‘over science’ the conversation though.
The latest tainting issues seem to have occurred fairly recently. It would be a simple enough matter for the QA team of the brand owners to look back through the specification changes and manufacturing records to see what material or process changes were made in the months leading up to these tainting issues.
I wouldn’t mind a small wager that an ‘unauthorised’ specification change has been made somewhere in the process. I would also wager that the kettles from all of these Brands are either coming from a single factory or that a component containing the ‘culprit’ material is universally supplied to different factories.
I’m going back to a plastic free stove top kettle for now. 😊

Thanks for providing an example of a kettle that has no plastic parts. Maybe we could create a demand for more.

Investigating the cause of the problem scientifically might yield some clues. If Which? won’t do this perhaps they can suggest some organisation that will.

After this length of time, I think we can be fairly sure that this is not a priority for Which?, but I wish they would just tell us.

Perhaps a Which? Connect survey could be used to establish makes and models do not cause problems. It might be more productive to focus on these rather than the problem ones. It would be good to have a report on stainless steel kettles without plastic components. Most of the online information seems to be about models sold outside the UK. These suggestions relate to routine activities of Which?, whereas arranging scientific investigations is not – unfortunately.

You may be on to something there Malcolm. The UK are a nation of tea drinkers and need kettles.

We have rented many holiday apartments/villas and they rarely have electric kettles. If a kettle is supplied, it is usually a metal one to put on the stove so maybe other countries don’t notice the problem like we do.

Thanks for the link to the kettle. It looks rather nice and they do a wide range of colours. Just a shame they don’t do toasters to match.

I have often wondered why people want matching kettles and toasters. The best buys are unlikely to come from the same stable. Better to stick to stainless steel then they don’t date and they look compatible, if not matching, on the counter.

Polished stainless steel is easy to keep clean and a quick rub with metal polish will keep it looking as good as new for years.

I have never had matching kettle and toaster before, not even considered it, especially as they wear out at different times and you tend to buy whatever you think is best at the time.

I think it must be a ‘having a new kitchen’ thing !!!

I have never owned a toaster, though have had quite a few people offer to buy me one. I don’t like toast and when friends visit they can use the grill, which does a perfectly good job.

Well thats the type of post I like Tom -down to earth- or should I say -down to smell ? . The practical facts from practical investigation by a practical person , no need for higher physics here !

Try using filtered water from a jug filter for boiling but empty any unused water from the kettle before boiling again. Never use the same water twice for boiling. That works for mea great cup of tea every time.