4 October 2010 / Food & Drink

Complaints help solve ‘pine mouth’ mystery

Comments 66

There’s been a mystery afoot with pine nuts. A bitter aftertaste has affected so many that it’s earned the name ‘pine mouth’. Supermarkets didn’t believe us, but with your help we’ve got to the bottom of it.

Complaining is a big part of British culture. Sometimes we even have a good reason to go with it.

So it was slightly surprising when we looked into ‘pine mouth’ earlier this year to hear that so little was being done about an issue that was affecting so many people.

Bitter aftertaste due to unscrupulous producers

Pine mouth is a bitter, metallic aftertaste caused by the consumption of pine nuts, and can in some cases lead to nausea and stomach problems.

We first heard about pine mouth through one of our members, but after our story in August’s Which? Magazine we received literally hundreds of letters and e-mails about this problem.

But when we started researching the causes we found a lot of speculation and little in the way of facts. It took correspondence with the European Commission (EC) to get to the bottom of the problem – namely that an inedible type of pine nut from China had entered the food chain following a pine nut shortages.

Following intervention by the Chinese Chamber of Commerce, the Chinese authorities have endeavoured to stop this practice, but the EC couldn’t guarantee that there wouldn’t be further incidences.

Your pine mouth stories can help

Some issues are too big to be ignored, but while wholly unpleasant, pine mouth is thankfully not life-threatening. It does provide a cautionary tale though. When we spoke to supermarkets stocking the offending pine nuts and also the Food Standards Agency (FSA), we were repeatedly told that they’d only had a few complaints, and hadn’t deemed the issue serious enough.

Any issue relating to food safety should be brought to the attention of the FSA, local Trading Standards officers, and ourselves. This can take the form of a letter or a phone call, but don’t underestimate the power of the nag.

So with your help we can get something done. If you’ve fallen foul of pine mouth don’t just tell us about it below, email toxicology@foodstandards.gsi.gov.uk with details of the pine nuts and the length of time you suffered the bitter taste to get your case recorded.

Comments

Patrick Steen says:

12 April 2011

Hello everyone, we’ve now published a new Conversation on ‘pine mouth’. The problem’s clearly lingering on and so we’ve contacted the FSA and the supermarkets to find out what’s being done to stop the sale of inedible pine nuts: https://conversation.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/pine-mouth-nuts-bitter-metallic-taste/

Eileen Baker says:

12 April 2011

I always ate pinenuts and for no reason haven’t eaten them for over three years. In this time I was treated for bowel cancer and had chemotheropy. Last week I bought some pinenuts (origin China ) sprinkled them over my salad, which I have to say were delicious (my husband had them also) but within twenty four hours a bitter taste arrived and has been with me for four days so far, not so my husband. I wondered if the effects of the chemo on my mouth ( and there were a lot ) has perhaps caused this in my case, as I did eat them a lot before with no problems, but I wouldnt have know the origins of those.

Nixer says:

13 April 2011

Well the bitter taste finally went 5 days after I had last eaten the inedible nuts. I had no reply from Holland & Barrett after the initial acknowledgement over a week ago so I chased, and still no reply. I hadn’t planned on ever shopping there again anyway but I shall be sure to tell everyone I know how little they care for their customers’ health. It would be good if someone with a bit more media power than me could go after some of these shops – there’s only so much I can do on twitter.

Janet says:

13 April 2011

I thought fellow sufferers might like to read the reply I had from Pizza Express after I emailed them to ask where they source their pine nuts from.

Thank you for your enquiry into PizzaExpress. I would like to reassure you that PizzaExpress is very aware of the ‘pine mouth’ phenomenon and are fully committed to working with our suppliers in
any developments regarding the causes of taste disturbances and will follow any worldwide recommendations, codes or practices issued as a result of continued research into the potential cause of this.

At present because it has been hypothesized that the bitter taste is due to imported pinenuts from China, which started from what was thought to be inedible species of pine nuts entering the food chain, we are currently sourcing our loose pinenuts and those used in our pesto from Korea, where
they are packed in the UK.

Our Pollo Pesto retail pizza contains a pesto which is free from pinenuts and the pinenuts going into the Pesto Genovese are from Italy.

I hope you find this information useful, but please do not hesitate to contact us again should you have any further enquiries.

Kind Regards
Natalie Rowe
Food Technical Manager

Peter says:

14 April 2011

I to have eaten pine nuts from china I bought from a village shop nr Winchester I went back to tell shop owner, and of course he wasn not the least bit interested probabaly thought I was some mad man any way what I would like to know is the medical facts regarding this taste, how do you keep getting this taste in your mouth when you eat food does it affect your liver, gallbladder, and bile if so does it cause any damage as I can say I have never expereinced any thing like this with any food I have ever eaten in my life or drink that I have drunk will some one please explain why it affects some people and not others

Craig Rushforth says:

15 April 2011

Peter,
I am afraid the answer to your questions it pretty much that nobody really knows!

As a dentist I have a professional interest in pine nut syndrome – and having suffered myself I have a personal interest!

From what I have been able to determine from my internet research no-one really has an explanation for the mechanism of action, but the culprit is probably a Chinese variety of pine nut “Pinus Armandii”, which is apparently not approved as a food variety but is found in some Chinese sourced pine nuts, possibly due to a shortage of other varieties.

Apparently no-one has been able to detect any chemical difference between pine nuts which cause the syndrome and those that do not – but clearly there must be a difference at some level. Whether there is any effect on any other organs of the body is also unknown, but given that the bad taste is generally only for a week or so, and there seem to be no longer term effects, it is likely that any other effect is transitory and not serious.

It also seems that people do react differently – there are many reports of partners who have shared the same meal which has resulted in one suffering, but the other not. My suspicion is that there may be a genetic component to this, similar to the PTC phenomenon. Quotes from Wikipedia:

“Phenylthiocarbamide… has the unusual property that it either tastes very bitter or is virtually tasteless, depending on the genetic makeup of the taster. The ability to taste PTC is a dominant genetic trait, and the test to determine PTC sensitivity is one of the most commonly used genetic tests on humans”

or even the different way in which people perceive the taste of Swede – or rutabaga as they call it in North America:

“Along with watercress, mustard greens, turnip, broccoli and horseradish, the perceived bitterness in rutabaga is governed by a gene affecting the TAS2R bitter receptor, which detects the glucosinolates in rutabaga. Sensitive individuals with the genotype PAV/PAV found rutabaga twice as bitter as insensitive subjects (AVI/AVI). For the mixed type (PAV/AVI), the difference was not significant for rutabaga. As a result, sensitive individuals may find rutabaga so bitter as to be inedible.”

Obviously these are differences in perceptions of taste, and are not quite analogous to the pine mouth effect, but I think that genetic variation may well explain why some suffer whilst others don’t.

There’s a recent paper in the Journal of Toxicology

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2011/316789/

In the UK the Food Standards Agency clearly has know about it for some time

http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/2009/jul/pinenut

And there’s quite an extensive blog about the problem at

http://pinenutsyndrome.wordpress.com/

Hope that gives you some ideas to start learning about the problem!

Regards,

C J Rushforth BChD

Nixer says:

20 April 2011

Holland and Barrett have finally (some 2 weeks later) replied, here’s an extract:

“It is therefore disappointing to learn of the aftertaste which you have been experiencing. We are aware that Pine Nuts can affect some individuals and I can advise that the FSA (Food Standards Authority) is aware of this issue and currently investigating the cause of this phenomenon. At the time of writing there is no conclusive explanation for this and ‘Pine Nut Syndrome’ seems to affect individual people but does not seem to be linked to a quality issue with the actual nuts.”

That’s not actually what the FSA said to me, they said “…At present it is thought that this phenomenon might be due to the pine nuts exported from China becoming mixed with non-edible species of pine nut.”

Which is a quality control issue.

H&B failed to answer my questions about whether they get their nuts from China and whether they use an FSA approved supplier. They did say something about adhering to manufacturing practices but I was unaware that the nuts were manufactured.

They offered an unspecified amount in vouchers (intended to reimburse for the pine nuts so it won’t be much) that I have to ring an 0844 number to claim! They really have no idea about customer service. I have replied and asked for (non voucher) compensation and emphasised that I had stomach cramps for 4 days but I know I won’t get anywhere with them, since I am now an ex customer there’s no incentive to placate me.

I will leave this thread to the pine nut mouth discussion now.

han says:

19 June 2011

Ive been adding nuts to my breakfast cereal recently, and about a day later i kept getting a horrible taste in my mouth which i couldnt work out what it could be. after about 2 days of this i looked it up on google and came across pine mouth. it suddenly clicked that i had been eating pine nuts!! that was the problem. i searched and searched on how to get rid of the taste as i go on holiday tomorrow and want to be able to enjoy the food without the horrible taste. There seems to be no definate solutions. i did come across a site which explained that something from the pine nuts affects your taste buds. still searching and searching for a cure, my boyfriend had made me a sausage cob, i added a lot of brown sauce in the hope this would cleanse my tongue (everyone knows what brown sauce can do to a dirty coin so i thought the same would apply lol) whilst eating the cob my taste seemed to return. i thought i would wait until this morning to see if it was still the same, the sour taste seems to have faded A LOT. So for lunch im gonna have another cob with a dose of brown sauce 🙂 and hopefully i will be back to normal.

Alan says:

12 July 2011

I had what turned out to be pine mouth three times between Summer 2010 and Spring 2011 having consumed ASDA pots of Sea Salt & Pepper Almonds and Seeds (which includes almonds, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, pine nuts and hemp seeds). I can only describe it as being a very metallic taste that developed a day or so after eating the produce and lasted for about 5 days. No amount of teeth brushing, mouthwash or strongly flavoured foods would mask it for more than a couple of seconds – in fact it would sometimes make it seem worse.

yuck says:

13 July 2011

Like many I ended up here after googling ‘bitter taste in mouth’. We had baby pine nuts on our dinner on Saturday evening, then went out with friends for a few drinks. I had four drinks (less than some!) and woke up the next day feeling absolutely dreadful. I had a splitting headache, I was vomiting, had diarrhea, my body just hurt and I was totally exhausted. At the time I put the whole thing down to a hangover, even though it was very severe – everyone else woke up a bit tired, but nothing more. As I still have the horrid bitter taste and my stomach still doesn’t feel quite right, I’m now pretty sure it was the pine nuts. I’m really hoping this stops soon, I’ve found that my Mum’s spiced pumpkin chutney tastes ok. Sweet/spicy foods seem to balance it out a bit but anything properly sweet is ruined.

yuck says:

13 July 2011

I’ve just found out that these were bought in Julian Graves only two weeks ago, I thought this had been investigated now, why are they still being sold?

Sean warburton says:

22 July 2011

I bought pine nuts from telco which are imported from china and having had them on a salad I am now suffering from pine mouth

Nuria says:

2 August 2011

I bought the Neal’s Yard Salad Sprinkle in Holland&Barret 5 days ago, the horrible taste started next day and didn’t go away with anything, getting a little better the following days and today almost gone (hopefully for good!). No other simptoms. I was starting to be really worried when I found this conversation, tks so much for all the links and explanations, all more clear now! It’s been going on for a couple of years now and never heard about it before, and nothing is been done as is still happening! The seeds pack says “Packed in UK”, not a word where the seeds come from. Isn’t it compulsory to mention that?
I’ll email H&B and the toxicology link and let you know how it goes

Nuria says:

2 August 2011

I found a document from the Food Standars Agency from 30 Jun 2011 about this, updating its advise to local authorities and requesting that every consumer complaint about “pine mouth” must be investigated and the business selling the illegal pine nuts, not fit for human consumption, must withdrawal them from the market. Maybe results, after 2 years of nothing being done!

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/enforcement/enfe11023.pdf

Pierluigi says:

17 August 2011

I have always eaten pine nuts and never had a problem until last Monday. I bought them from my local store in Isleworth. The brand of the pine nuts is called Toory Fruity but i cant ascertain where the nuts are originally from.

The awful bitter taste started yesterday (the day after i ate them) and today is has been worse – i cant really eat anything as it tastes foul and metallic. I even thought i had a mouth infection as i could not un derstand where the taste came from until i found a post on the net.

I have reported the case to the toxicology food standard: toxicology@foodstandards.gsi.gov.uk.
i hope my taste will come back. this is so awful and quite scary.

Sue says:

1 September 2011

Up until a few weeks ago I had never had a problem eating pine nuts, however am now suffering for a second time (with a months interval of not eating any pine nuts) with a terrible bitter taste & soreness on my tongue/inside of my mouth. I can’t remember where the first pack of nuts were purchased as I binned them thinking they were bad. I purchased this second pack from Tesco (origin China) and after eating a small handful the symptoms started after a couple of days. There’s no way I’m going to eat any more of them cos it’s making me miserable !! It’s such a shame cos I love sprinkling them over pasta, yellow pepper, cherry toms with parmesan ..yummm !

Becky says:

22 October 2011

Well, mystery solved! Here was me thinking it might be hormone related or something, so I googled that horrible taste in my mouth and made the link to the Chinese pine nuts I ate yesterday and the day before. I have written a complaint to Tesco and contacted the FSA also, and now I just have to sit and hope the taste doesn’t linger too long :o(

Sandy says:

14 November 2013

We have the pine mouth problem in Australia too!! At least I know what it is now! The whole area of food handling and safety for consumers is a worry. Companies seem not to care. Thank goodness for sights and blogs like this!!

Patricia says:

21 March 2016

Here it is 2016 and my adult son and I have both had pine nut syndrome after each eating a handful of pine nuts we bought at our local Vancouver, WA WINCO. The symptoms took about 36 hours to hit us and lasted 7-8 days. My son’s fiancé, who ate about 10 pine nuts was unaffected. Even water tasted horrible. The 3rd day was the very worst. I felt like I couldn’t breathe the bitter taste was so strong and far down my throat. I contacted the FDA. A very nice woman interviewed me as to the details of our experience. She said that WINCO had been contacted repeatedly by the FDA but continues to sell these nuts from China without any warning. We got them from the bulk food area. She also said it is a very random sort of attack with various people having eaten the same pesto, for instance, and only some experiencing symptoms. There are undoubtedly genetics involved. It is disconcerting to think that something , some chemical, used to process the nuts could be at fault. I will be watching for some answer! I cannot believe these white Chinese pine nuts continue to be sold without knowing exactly what causes this pine nut syndrome! Another reason to buy local.

Federico says:

15 May 2021

Some years ago, in Spain I had this pine mouth thing and it wasn’t until some research that I found it was because of Chinese pine nuts. A few days ago, in UK, my wife ordered pine nuts online… they turned to be Chinese. Because I love pine nuts and I’m a bit stupid, I had a couple handful of them. Well, now I’m with this pine mouth again, it’s horrible! I’ve been reading that China stopped exporting certain varieties. Well, that doesn’t seem to solve the problem. These pine nuts came from Grape Tree, and the bag says that the country of origin is China and that the pine nut kernels were packed in UK. I hope it does last too long this time – on my second day of pine mouth now

Gary says:

7 September 2021

I first noticed a severe bitter taste in my mouth after showering and washing my hair with pine tar soap. I used it for about 5 days straight. I have never eaten any pine nuts. Do you think my severe bitter taste could have come from the pine tar soap. It’s worst when I drink water. I’ve had this issue since around August 5th when I began using the soap… Could it be Pine Mouth Syndrome by using the soap and shampoo? Could I have accidentally swallowed some or it seep into my skin? Unfortunately I used a Pine Tar Shaving Soap during this time too… Any help or comments would be appreciated…